Talk:Britain's Strongest Man
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The never-ending edit spats
[edit]I see the fight over the term British Isles usage, is occuring here aswell. I suppose ya'll were gonna have a shoot-out sooner or later. I could be wrong, put I suspect administrators will be handing out blocks (instead of protecting articles), this time around. GoodDay (talk) 21:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Northern Ireland & Republic of Ireland
[edit]Why is Northern Ireland & the Republic of Ireland rolled into one Ireland? -- GoodDay (talk) 21:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Reference for event held in British Isles
[edit]Does the reference for the contest being held in the British Isles stand up? [1] The only thing I can see in the ref is the sentence: "British Isles Novice contest for strongest man Finalist". I can't see how this backs up the text saying that the competition is held in the British Isles. It doesn't even mention the Britain's strongest man competition. Jack forbes (talk) 12:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
- Sources don't back up the claim. Mo ainm~Talk 12:27, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
- I believe that the lede is badly written and drawing the wrong conclusions in any case. People are mixing up a "title" of "Britain's Strongest Man", with a type of "manhunt" to discover "Britain's Strongest Man". With other sports we don't say that the "UK Snooker Championships is to find the UK's best snooker player". Unless the competition is only open to British nationals, the lede as currently written is wrong. I suggest that the lede is written as:
What do you think? --HighKing (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)Britain's Strongest Man (or "BSM") is an annual strongman event held in the United Kingdom. The competition is open to athletes from all over the world with qualifiers for the finals held in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland[1]. The competition also serves as a qualifying event for the World's Strongest Man ("WSM") competition and TWI produces both competitions.
- That's acceptable. GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- I think that the proposed change to the lead has the potential to be more misleading. There is no evidence that the competition is open to athletes from all over the world. The only exceptions I can find in the records for athletes outside of the United Kingdom are representatives from the Channel Islands and on a single occasion the Republic of Ireland. These are potentially the only exceptions. To infer the competition is open to entrants from all over the world from these exceptions would be incorrect. In addition, to address the comparison with the UK Snooker Championship and Britain's Strongest Man I believe one need only look at the titles of these competitions to infer their meaning. The former is not called "The UK's best snooker player". If it was, the implication is that it would be to find the UK's best snooker player as opposed to a snooker championship held in the UK. The latter has a title that is designed to imply that the winner is Britain's Strongest Man. There is no other way of interpreting that title. The competition would otherwise be called the "British strength athletics championship". Of course, we are then presented with the ironic situation that the winner of that title could potentially not be British or from the UK (i.e. Irish or from the Channel Islands). But I think that these exceptions are precisely that, exceptions. That they exist could be weaved into the article as notable, but they do not imply the competition is open to the global community of strength athletes.Kwib (talk) 21:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Good point. I thought I found that exact quote somewhere (open to anyone), but now I can't find it.
Britain's Strongest Man (or "BSM") is an annual strongman event held in the United Kingdom. Competitors qualify for the final through regional heats and the winner is awarded the title of "Britain's Strongest Man".[2]. The competition also serves as a qualifying event for the World's Strongest Man ("WSM") competition and TWI produces both competitions.
- I think that this suggestion is good, although could I suggest the following modification, only with regard to TWI.
Britain's Strongest Man (or "BSM") is an annual strongman event held in the United Kingdom. Competitors qualify for the final through regional heats and the winner is awarded the title of "Britain's Strongest Man".[3] The competition is produced by TWI and serves as a qualifying event for the World's Strongest Man ("WSM") competition, also a TWI production.
- I think that this suggestion is good, although could I suggest the following modification, only with regard to TWI.
- Good point. I thought I found that exact quote somewhere (open to anyone), but now I can't find it.
- I think that the proposed change to the lead has the potential to be more misleading. There is no evidence that the competition is open to athletes from all over the world. The only exceptions I can find in the records for athletes outside of the United Kingdom are representatives from the Channel Islands and on a single occasion the Republic of Ireland. These are potentially the only exceptions. To infer the competition is open to entrants from all over the world from these exceptions would be incorrect. In addition, to address the comparison with the UK Snooker Championship and Britain's Strongest Man I believe one need only look at the titles of these competitions to infer their meaning. The former is not called "The UK's best snooker player". If it was, the implication is that it would be to find the UK's best snooker player as opposed to a snooker championship held in the UK. The latter has a title that is designed to imply that the winner is Britain's Strongest Man. There is no other way of interpreting that title. The competition would otherwise be called the "British strength athletics championship". Of course, we are then presented with the ironic situation that the winner of that title could potentially not be British or from the UK (i.e. Irish or from the Channel Islands). But I think that these exceptions are precisely that, exceptions. That they exist could be weaved into the article as notable, but they do not imply the competition is open to the global community of strength athletes.Kwib (talk) 21:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- That's acceptable. GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- I believe that the lede is badly written and drawing the wrong conclusions in any case. People are mixing up a "title" of "Britain's Strongest Man", with a type of "manhunt" to discover "Britain's Strongest Man". With other sports we don't say that the "UK Snooker Championships is to find the UK's best snooker player". Unless the competition is only open to British nationals, the lede as currently written is wrong. I suggest that the lede is written as:
My reasoning for this seemingly trivial alteration is to keep the emphasis of the final sentence on the BSM. In addition, I think that this discussion highlights the need for a section within the article that clarifies the qualification system for the competition (which I will be happy to begin and/or contribute to).Kwib (talk) 12:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- Good edit. The history section also needs a clean-up, and I believe we should highlight that the competition won't be held in 2009 or this year (2010). A section that clarifies qualification sounds good. --HighKing (talk) 12:48, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and implemented your lede. --HighKing (talk) 20:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
References
List of champions
[edit]I am concerned about the list of champions between from 1989 to 1998 inclusive. The contest was held every year from 1979 to 1984 and there are dvds for sale that back this up. Likewise, from 1999 onwards there is much evidence for the placings within the contest. In 1985 there is agreement that no contest took place, and in 1986 there was certainly a "Britain's Most Powerful Man". The 1987 hiatus I am in agreemtn with and then there is the John Smith's Trial of Strength that is backed up as the equivalent of BSM by David Webster's Sons of Samson.
However, what concerns me is the nature and structure of the competition from 1989 to 1998. There appear to be competing tournaments at different times and I if some of these have been merged into this list it ought to be highlighted. The premier competitions that coexisted at this time were the BSM, the Daily Star/Geoff Capes promoted UK Strongest Man, British Muscle Power Championships , certain IFSA promoted events and the UK Docklands Strongman Challenge. Examination of the World's Strongest Man entrants in the 1990s that represented GBR suggests that at one time or another all of these competitions produced invitations to the WSM.
I am wondering if, within the Strength athletics in the United Kingdom and Ireland article might benefit from a table showing the various winners of all competitions as the coexisted? For example:
Major titles and title holders
[edit]Each of the above has led commentators to call its winner Britain's Strongest Man and this might begin to clarify things. Does anyone have more information?Kwib (talk) 22:04, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
TBC
[edit]Someone might want to explain that in a legend by the table. I would, but I don't know. "To Be" something, I'll bet, but can't think of a word that makes sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:07, 9 July 2014 (UTC)