Talk:Bobbinet

Textile Arts Mid‑importance

	Clothing portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Textile Arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of textile arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Textile ArtsWikipedia:WikiProject Textile ArtsTemplate:WikiProject Textile ArtsTextile Arts articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Stagecraft (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Stagecraft, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.StagecraftWikipedia:WikiProject StagecraftTemplate:WikiProject StagecraftStagecraft articles

Hello user:joedkins, is see three different years for the invention of the bobbinet machine, the intro of this article, the history section and the main article on lace machines. Jo Pol (talk) 10:35, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jo Pol - yes, that is an "Oops" (British expression meaning there is a mistake). I've looked into it and I think I have found the three dates.

Identifying Handmade and Machine Lace (DATS in partnership with the V&A): "The bobbinet machine, invented by John Heathcoat in Loughborough, Leicestershire, in 1809"

Pat Earnshaw - Lace machines and machine lace p 37: "...and also, from 1809, with the cotton bobbinets from Heathcot's Old Loughborough..." P. 67: (about Heathcoat) "His first partnet (no. 2788) registered to himself and his brother-in-law, Samuel Caldwell, in 1804, was for an attachment to Warp Frames..." same page: "His first machine to imitate this" [bobbin lace] "was in 1808 (patent no. 3151)"

Swiss Tulle website (manufacture it) in About bobbinet, history of...: "Bobbinet machines were invented in 1807 by John Heathcoat"

Ignore the 1804, which was for a different machine. It seems that the patent was in 1808, but he probably did not get a machine to work, or did not market the lace, until the following year. Patents were often put in early to preserve the idea. The date of 1807 is by the company that makes bobbinet. I think that is wrong. Unless they assumed (or have evidence) that he invented the machine a year before the patent. I put them in as a reference because they had all those lovely uses for bobbinet, which happened after Pat Earnshaw's book was written. But I would trust Earnshaw rather than them if there is a contradiction.

I will go through and alter the dates to 1808, I think. The references say "invented by", and that is the patent date, not the manufacturing date. He might not have a working machine in 1808, of course... Joedkins (talk) 12:10, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]