Talk:Bloody Christmas

Cyprus, 1963

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Redirect 1963 to Cyprus intercommunal violence#Intercommunal violence continued --v/r - T P 20:37, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Bloody Christmas is live in the memories of Turkish Cypriots. It is what lies behind the 1974 intervention and the further division of the island. My first proposal here was deleted (without any explanation). This time I have made a new text, eliminating the rather strong words like annihilation and ethnic cleansing. In several related articles there is only one reference to this infamous Christmas, evading the word "Bloody". This is neither just nor correct. The WP is an encyclopedia that covers the tragedies of everybody (see the many references to Greek Cypriot suffering). The Turkish Cypriots cannot be discriminated; they have a Bloody Christmas in their collective memory and we owe them this article. Let us write it altogether, especially Turkish and Greek Cypriots. --E4024 (talk) 21:48, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You need to support the claimed facts with reliable material, othertwise they did not belong in such a disamb page. By the way... since when Christamas is part of the Turkish tradition?Alexikoua (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still waiting for a desent source on that topic. If not, it needs to go.Alexikoua (talk) 22:12, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, the English Wikipedia has reference to the Bloody Cyprus in Greek- Turkish relations. See here. (Please do not rush to eliminate now what was there since a long time. The Turkish WP has an elaborate article on the Bloody Christmas in Cyprus. Here) The Wikipedia is a 'decent' source.

Secondly, there is even a book dedicated to this sad chapter of history: See: http://ciddiyizbiz.biz/kitap-ozetleri-ve-tanitimlari/kibris'ta-kanli-noel-1963-doc-dr-abdulhaluk-cay/ (The title of the book translates as: "Bloody Christmas in Cyprus - 1963".

Thirdly, the Turkish Cypriots traditionally commemorate this sad event. For the candle-lit vigil in front of the High Commission (Embassy) of the Rep. of Cyprus in London in 2010, see here.

I will continue. --E4024 (talk) 10:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For the same book in Google Books (Tr) see here. --E4024 (talk) 10:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here you can fin some references to the Bloody Christmas in Greek literature. --E4024 (talk) 10:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here also from a Greek named writer. --E4024 (talk) 10:37, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The Massacre of Turks on Christmas Day", another book on the Bloody Christmas. --E4024 (talk) 10:42, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another WP article where there is reference to the Bloody Christmas, here. --E4024 (talk) 10:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another reference to the "Bloody Christmas" in this Wikipedia, here. I am only proposing and defending that an article should be written on this concept, which is a known issue, nothing new... --E4024 (talk) 12:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For the time being we are only adding a title at the disambiguation page. There are already Vikilink brackets about this topic in Wikipedia; none of them added originally by this user. I expect especially Turkish (Where are you Seksen?) and Greek Cypriot users to help construct this article; of course with help from all of us. While the stub begins taking shape more RSs will be added to those above. --E4024 (talk) 18:01, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've been meaning to create the article of the events of Bloody Chirstmas in Cyprus for a while now. I'm currently busy with other projects at the moment but I'll be willing to help contribute to the article as I'm significantly aware of this historical event.Turco85 (Talk) 18:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adding more sources: Last but not the least, news on the first ever return (after 44 years) to his former home in Cyprus of Major (now a retired general) Dr. Nihat Ilhan, then physician of the Turkish Military Contingent on Cyprus, whose wife and 3 children were strangled in the bath tub on the evening of 24 December by EOKA mobs; a tragic event that gave the name "Bloody Christmas to the ethnic strife began by the Greek Cypriot atrocities against the Turks from 20 December 1963 and continued until UN intervention. That house in Northern Cyprus is now a "Museum of Barbarie, at the TRNC. Read the story here. --E4024 (talk) 18:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@E4024: I have to note that the way you looked into this is problematic: First, using wikipedia articles as a reference (see wp:rs) and then we partisan material of personal experiences by former generals.

After a search on wikischolar, there is some bibliography and indeed the term 'Bloody Christmass' is used on Turkish bibliography, but the specific part needs to be reworded in something neutral adopted by third part bibliography [[1]]... in Turkish blbliography refers to the tensions in intercommunal violence in Cyrpus that culminated in 1963. The present version of the article is obvisouly written in a wp:pov way.Alexikoua (talk) 21:52, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure Bloody Christmas happened on December 21, 1963. A quick search in google books [2] clearly shows its notability. Turco85 (Talk) 10:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that we already have an article on the December 1963 events (Cyprus_intercommunal_violence). At least it's focused 90% in this period.Alexikoua (talk) 19:54, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since there is already material on this subject at Cyprus intercommunal violence#Intercommunal violence continued, it may be sufficient to include an entry in this disambiguation page saying something like "a name (Turkish: Kanlı Noel) for attacks on Turkish Cypriots in December 1963". No separate article needs to be created at this time IMO, unless people feel the aforementioned "Intercommunal violence continued" section should be moved to its own separate article. I would also suggest that the existing "Intercommunal violence continued" section should be expanded to cite sources supporting the identification of the incident by the name "Bloody Christmas" (or its Turkish and/or Greek equivalents). — Rich wales 20:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In case user:Turco85 does not come forward with more ideas and editing energy I will have to be happy with what Richwales propose and I would also expect him to realise the editing as a neutral user. --E4024 (talk) 12:30, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I recently cleaned up the page to conform to disambiguation guidelines. In principle, I've no objection to updating the entry to link to Cyprus intercommunal violence#Intercommunal violence continued -- however, that article should describe the use of the term "Bloody Sunday". A disambiguation page should not introduce information that is not supported by the linked article. older ≠ wiser 18:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Richwales and Bkonrad; It's better to redirect Bloody Christmas (1963) to Cyprus intercommunal violence#Intercommunal violence continued. The recent clean-up done by Bkonrad is highly appreciated AshLey ^Msg 12:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I have done an edit here to include the name "Bloody Christmas" in the main article. AshLey ^Msg 13:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

http://skyturkvngenc.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/gc3a2vurdan-dostluk-umanlara.jpg please smo add this photo to that section Girayhankaya (talk) 16:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]