Talk:Black Widow (2021 film)

Good article progress?

How close is this article to completion? What other information needs to be added? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:05, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

One of the main things that needs to be done is to c/e the entire article to find anything that can be worded better, spelling errors, etc. -- Zoo (talk) 16:28, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer Is that all that needs to be done? Is there sufficient information in the article or does more need to be added? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 17:28, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I havent gone through the article entirely recently. -- Zoo (talk) 17:59, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Looks like there's a refidea on this page (this talk), so that could be added. — SirDot (talk) 18:56, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

What is a refidea? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 20:21, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

It's at the top of the talk page The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future DonQuixote (talk) 20:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

There is also room to expand on production info (writing, design, filming, editing, effects) and some clean-up needed for the reception section. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:27, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

@Adamstom.97 So, the Development section is good right, as it has lots of material? Does that mean that more info needs to be added to Pre-production about writing? Should I also relocate the design for the title sequence to the post-production area? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Development is definitely good for this one, I think the title sequence stuff is fine for now since it is being used for discussing the writing/structure. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:18, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Would adding in more info about the VFX help provide more info for the article? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

If you have info to add, add it. Additional info won't hurt any section. -- Zoo (talk) 03:23, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good. I'll see what I can do tomorrow. Feel free to ce it once I do. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:32, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer I am right now working on improving the post-production section and working on adding more info to the VFX of the film. I have found some useful links, feel free to add in any information and CE the edit I did just now.

https://www.slashfilm.com/745474/black-widow-vfx-team-talks-creating-grounded-action-practical-skydiving-and-handling-multiple-marvel-movies-interview/

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/black-widow-vfx-supervisors-reveal-toughest-scenes-to-make/

https://www.motionpictures.org/2021/07/black-widow-stunt-coordinator-rob-inch-on-the-art-of-adrenalin/

https://www.awn.com/vfxworld/ilms-vfx-help-marvel-studios-wing-it-black-widow Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

I'll let you continue adding what you have. I plan on doing a full page c/e as opposed to just the one section. -- Zoo (talk) 04:00, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Sounds good. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 19:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

FWIW, I've been saving these edits from a while ago to double check that the info added was correct from the sources, any c/e, and then ref formatting for this info, if someone is able to tackle this before I get to it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:15, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I think I'm finally available to work on this and/or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier if anyone else is interested. -- Zoo (talk) 21:21, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Over the last two days I have done a full c/e and clean-up of the article and expanded the sections that I thought needed it. I feel we are probably in a good place to nominate the article for GA, unless there are any concerns? - adamstom97 (talk) 07:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

It all looks good to me. Nice work! Trailblazer101 (talk) 07:21, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Happy to assist as I can during a review if it's nominated! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Nice work Adam! -- ZooBlazer^talk 23:50, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

DYK

@Adamstom.97 Do you plan on doing a DYK? Looks like roughly two more days to get one submitted. -- ZooBlazer^talk 01:01, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't really planning on it, I generally let Favre1fan93 handle those back in the day. I can help out with one if you wanted to give it a go but I don't think there is much time left. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I could nominate on your behalf if you want to help find some options. I think we'd be fine if we nominate in the next 2ish hours. -- ZooBlazer^talk 22:11, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe some potential options:

• Florence Pugh was cast after she received strong reviews for her performance in Fighting with My Family (2019).
• Something about Jessica Gao eventually being hired for She-Hulk after pitching a version of Black Widow that included She-Hulk? Or that may fit better somewhere with the She-Hulk series down the line
• Due to Black Widow being dead, Feige was influenced by Better Call Saul being a prequel to Brekaing Bad because he didn't want the film to be an origin story.

-- ZooBlazer^talk 22:33, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I think the She-Hulk one would make more sense for that article when we get there. I was thinking we could do:

• A Black Widow film was first announced in 2004 but work on the version that was released in 2021 did not begin until late 2017. Something like that?
• Maybe something about the lawsuit? Scarlett Johansson filed a lawsuit against The Walt Disney Company alleging that the release strategy for Black Widow breached her contract?

The Pugh one is also a fine option. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I forgot about the lawsuit. That's a good one to include. So your 2 plus Pugh are a good place to start. And we can always find something else if the reviewer feels that way. I'll work on wording the options to fit the DYK format. -- ZooBlazer^talk 22:46, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

• ... that a Black Widow film was first announced in 2004 but work on the version that was released in 2021 did not begin until late 2017? Source #1 Source #2
• ... that Scarlett Johansson filed a lawsuit against The Walt Disney Company alleging that the release strategy for Black Widow breached her contract? Source
• ... that Florence Pugh was cast in Black Widow after receiving strong reviews for her performance in Fighting with My Family (2019)? Source

Something like this @Adamstom.97? -- ZooBlazer^talk 23:25, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination looks good, thanks for sorting that Zoo. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

No problem. I just didn't want it to become the first MCU film to not have one. At least I think all the others have one so far. -- ZooBlazer^talk 00:34, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Budget

The number we are now using as the film's budget is supported by this article which only says Disney spent $288.5 million to make the film and that number was over the actual budget. Are we comfortable having that in the budget parameter if it isn't the actual budget? I found the instructions at Template:Infobox film to be a bit unclear on what the requirements are for this field. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:59, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I think this is the correct figure to use, as we list the actual money spent on making the film and not just the originally estimated figure. Most times we just have to do with that estimate as the actual money spent isn't made available, but it is here, so we can use that. —El Millo (talk) 03:03, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I concur with El Millo. There have been several Forbes articles from this subject matter expert coming from recently released publicly available documents detailing Marvel/Disney's spending on their productions, because of the UK Tax Relief program. There were discussions earlier this year at WT:FILM which supported and encouraging the use of these articles, as oftentimes, the expected budgets are rounded and not reflective of the finished product, while the documents are overtly more accurate. I am more confidant in the post-release financial figures over an "estimated budget", given the COVID delays with marketing costs and distribution, among other potential factors.. I'd say this figure makes more sense. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:44, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Here's the WP:FILM discussion for context. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:51, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

SNL Black Widow

I was surprised to not see Scarlett's 2015 SNL appearance as Black Widow mentioned, seeing how it is clearly relevant to the long and fitful development history of the movie: already in 2015 it was known fans wanted a solo BW movie, and it would still be six more years before it happened.

But my addition was reverted with the edit comment that joke isn't really relevant here. My edit wasn't intended as a joke. My edit does not make our article tell a joke. It's commenting that SNL — and Scarlett herself — decided to joke about the lack of a BW movie. I'd argue it's very relevant and should have been mentioned as part of the development process of the movie a long time ago. I invite @Adamstom.97: to reconsider their revert and/or engage on talk. CapnZapp (talk) 11:12, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I didn't say your edit was a joke, what Johansson did was a joke. We already have serious comments by her from around the same time saying she was happy with how the character was being used at that point. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely and I'm not removing those comments. But you can say two things. And appearing on SNL is in no way less serious, especially if it garners mainstream notice. CapnZapp (talk) 13:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

You need to cite a reliable source stating that this is in any way notable. DonQuixote (talk) 11:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

If you don't consider Variety's coverage notable enough (specifically regarding the context I'm presenting the tidbit in, that is: during development, Marvel's apparent inability to create superhero movies led by women, and how Johansson actively participates in SNL mocking Marvel for this) here's two more. CapnZapp (talk) 13:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

As you have rightly pointed out, context matters. Those articles are more about SNL, the character and Marvel Studios rather than the development of this film. DonQuixote (talk) 14:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

We already cover the film's actual development with adequate sources. I fail to see how this one SNL joke lamenting about the lack of a film by then and fan interest is really notable here when such material is already covered by other sources. It seems rather trivial and non-notable for inclusion on Wikipedia. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)