Talk:Black-capped chickadee

Needs distribution map

... similar to other bird pages such as House Finch, etc. 24.113.167.160 18:11, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

It would be interesting to see some information on variations of vocalization among different population groups which have been geographically isolated from each other. Also the evolution of the Mating call, has it changed over time? is there any selection that takes place for one call length versus another length or frequency? if the call is uniform across all populations then is their another phenotypic trait that has a more desirable characteristic for a higher reproduction rate or fitness level such as color or spots?Crissinger.11 (talk) 02:40, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Evolution

It would be interesting to see some information on variations of vocalization among different population groups which have been geographically isolated from each other. Also the evolution of the Mating call, has it changed over time? is there any selection that takes place for one call length versus another length or frequency? if the call is uniform across all populations then is their another phenotypic trait that has a more desirable characteristic for a higher reproduction rate or fitness level such as color or spots?Crissinger.11 (talk) 02:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Predators

Can there be a section full of their predators that’s easy to find, please? 24.92.58.235 (talk) 14:04, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Translated name

User:Richlitt is insistent that the name of this chickadee be translated into the Abenaki language, a language currently spoken by about 1,800 people in Canada and the United states (about 0.0005 percent of the combined population). Moreover, the bird's range covers much of Canada (where there are about 60 Indigenous languages) and the United States (where there are about 175 Indigenous languages). No doubt many of those 235 languages also have a translated name for this bird, and to that end, User:Richlitt is welcome to create the article, "List of Indigenous translations for the chickadee"...but on this particular article--with no intent to trivialize the Abenaki language--its inclusion is out-of-scope and irrelevant. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, those exact arguments. I agree. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:47, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Ditto. Eric ^talk 19:50, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. - UtherSRG (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Source for Willow tit being conspecific

Does anyone have access to Peterson Field Guide for the Birds of Britain and Europe that supports the claim in the Taxonomy section? As yet I've not been able to find a reliable source - I've found some online discussions about it, but nothing from a WP:RS. As far as I can tell, they were always considered separate species by the AOU and the IOC. grungaloo (talk) 18:51, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Black-capped chickadee/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jens Lallensack (talk · contribs) 04:19, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Great to see this here. Some first comments now, rest soon.

• This Inaturalist observation [1] has a nice freely licensed photo of a nest with eggs; could be added! And this one [2] shows a chick, could also be added.
  • Great find! I added both to commons and put the hatchling one in the article.
• Link to ref 16 is not working
  • Fixed
• Description does not state how the juvenile looks like.
  • Added
• Description should mention the color of bill, iris, and legs.
  • Added
• I would maybe explain what "bib" means here.
  • I struggled with this - I can't find a source that explains what it means by "bib". I think I'm ok to add it without a cite (WP:NOTBLUE), what do you think?
• Birds of the World states that "The area of the black bib is also larger in males"; I think this is important to add.
  • Added
• At one time, the black-capped chickadee was considered by some to be conspecific with the willow tit of Eurasia and the Carolina chickadee – "At one time" is very unspecific. The reader has no idea when this was. 100 years ago? 10 years ago?
  • Added
• Maximum recorded lifespan is 12 years, but most individuals live only half that long – Source is a bit old and Birds of the World contradicts it, stating that the average life expectancy is just 2.5 years.
  • Reworded it and updated the cite for the average lifespan.
• The "subspecies" section looks a bit incomplete; you give information on visual differences only for some of them.
  • Added descriptions for all.
• Based on what are the subspecies sorted? Not alphabetically it seems? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 04:19, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
  • It's based on the IOC BOW list. I've mentioned that in the opening paragraph - or do you think I should reorder it?
• It can also be found at higher elevations in the Appalachian Mountains. – Does that mean that it is not found at higher elevations elsewhere, e.g. in the Rocky Mountains? Are the Appalachian Mountains an exception here?
  • I think it means that within the Appalachian Mountains, it is found only at higher elevations, at least that's my read on the source. I've reordered the sentence to hopefully make that clearer.
• Elevation range is standard information and could be added.
  • Added
• "irruptions" - Consider explaining the term in-text to make the text more comprehensible for the general audience
  • I couldn't find a way to write this that I liked and was concise. It is wikilinked to "irruption", but if you still think it needs a rewrite I'll give it another shot (if you have an idea of what to say, I'm all for it!)
• is a small, nonmigratory, North American songbird that lives in deciduous and mixed forests. It is a passerine bird – songbird and passerine bird are the same thing, right?
  • I've dropped songbird and used passerine instead. I updated the article description to match.
• The type location was subsequently restricted to Quebec, Canada – I can't follow here. The type location is the place where the type specimen was collected; how can this be "restricted"?
  • Source says "restricted", but not clear what that means. I've dropped this sentence altogether. I don't think it added any value. Leaving off here until later. grungaloo (talk) 00:18, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
• whole-step, kHz – link?
  • Linked
• The range of frequencies at which this song starts from varies; the complete frequency range spans roughly 1 kHz. Within this range, male chickadees can sing at various tones. The average starting frequency is around 4000 Hz. – Could be formulated much more concisely.
• Reworded
• When males are out in the wild, they sing this song – Aren't they always out in the wild?
  • Dropped this, reworded slightly
• they sing this song to defend their territory or attract a mate – Is this still referring to the faint version?
  • Dropped this, and reworded. It's used for communication between breeding pairs and not territoriality.
• The black-capped chickadee is a monomorphic species, so distinguishing males and females based solely on their singing is difficult. – Check if monomorphism is really the right term here. In any case, I think it can just be removed here without loosing anything.
  • Dropped, wasn't adding anything
• Suggest to explain glissando inline, or avoid the term
  • Dropped glissando entirely, this was kind of a repeat of the previous line about amplitude.
• The most familiar call is the chick-a-dee-dee-dee, which gave this bird its name. – But this is not the only chickadee species. Does that mean that the black capped also gave the name to the others?
  • I'm not entirely sure, nothing I found says definitively. It seems as though the Black-capped was the first chickadee species encountered by Europeans, so I think that's likely the case. It seems other Chickadees also make similar calls. I can rewrite if you think it causes confusion?
• It has been observed to consist of up to four distinct units—referred to as A, B, C, and D – I can't follow here, what are these units, how are they defined, how do they relate to what we hear?
  • I've tried rewording it. A B C D seem to commonly used in studies - ABC are different chick-a noises, and D is the repeated dee.
• Black-capped chickadees in an environment with ambient noise at the same frequencies as their songs have developed an evolutionary adaptation – Is that really something that developed in this species and does not occur in related species?
  • Dropped and reworded.
• The fee-bee songs of several male black-capped chickadees were monitored to identify their particular frequency. In one study, a series of both masking[Note 2] and nonmasking[Note 3] tones was played to multiple male chickadees at various locations to observe how they responded. – This is much text with little information content. I would even consider to just remove it entirely.
  • Dropped
• the males adapted by increasing the frequency of their songs. The males responded quickly to the masking tones by raising their song frequencies. – The second sentence is redundant and can be removed.
  • Dropped
• Makes sense to only describe the most important calls in detail, but the other calls could at least be mentioned?
  • I've added a paragraph giving a quick overview of other calls.
• have developed an evolutionary adaptation that enables them to adjust the frequency of their songs much quicker to effectively communicate with the surrounding population. – I am unsure about this. What kind of evolutionary adaptation is it? Where does the source mention this?
  • Reworded and simplified.
• the young have several close interactions with their family – I also think this part can be removed without loss.
  • Dropped
• Foraging behaviour in the winter tends to decrease due to the changing weather. Such behaviour is largely influenced by wind and temperature. When wind speeds are higher, black-capped chickadees avoid exposure to such conditions by flying lower where vegetation offers a degree of protection, and when the temperature decreases, they search for food less frequently.[43] – Again, much text for little content; this could be half as long.
  • Shortened this, and joined it to the following paragraph.
• prenuptial – explain or avoid technical term?
  • Reworded, doesn't use prenuptial anymore.
• males contribute greatly to reproduction. During the laying and incubation periods, males feed their partners extensively. When the nestlings hatch, males are the primary providers, but as the nestlings grow, females become the main caretakers. – All of this was already mentioned earlier in the section. "Males contribute greatly to reproduction" does not say terribly much as well: Compared to many other birds, they appear to contribute less?
  • I've dropped most of this paragraph. Some of it was about what partners females prefer, so I've moved that to the start of the breeding section and expanded on it with some information about how/when the breeding pairs form.
• Consider moving "Dominance hierarchy" above "Breeding", because you make several references to hierarchy in the latter.
  • Moved it ahead of breeding
• Dominance hierarchies play an important role in determining the social behaviours among the birds in these flocks. Chickadees' with higher social rankings typically benefit from increased territory size, better body condition, higher singing rate, and higher reproductive success – When, as you state, the dominance hierarchies are only relevant for flocks and in winter, how does that fit with territory size and reproductive success? And how could a dominance in hierarchy lead to better body condition (isn't it the other way around: better body condition leads to higher hierarchy placement?). Also, how can the birds "benefit" from a higher singing rate; more singing means more work, so it should be a negative aspect if anything?
  • I rewrote this a bit, had to tie in another source for it. Hopefully it's more clear - essentially higher ranks > better access to food > better condition/territory/mates.
• In experiments, subordinate individuals display less caution when approaching novel foods and objects, – this basically supports what was said in the previous paragraph. Therefore I would not open a new paragraph here, but instead make a connection.
  • Rewrote and tied into it.
• Not strictly required for a GA, but the "Behavior" section in the "Birds of the World" source discusses many aspects that are omitted in this article, including territoriality, pair-bond and courtship, agonistic behavior, predator response, etc.
• That's all. Not everything I pointed out is strictly necessary to reach GA level. Are you intending to bring this to FAC?--Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks Jens Lallensack, I think that covers everything. I might bring it to FAC one day, but like you say there's definitely more to add. Let me know what you think, and if you have any pre-FAC comments you'd like to make I'm happy to hear those too! grungaloo (talk) 01:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

    @Grungaloo: Excellent, looks really good! Now to some additional advice for a potential FAC. First, try to cover all the aspects, but concisely, using WP:Summary style. At the moment, some aspects are covered in great detail (such as the fee-bee song), while others are not covered at all. Try to write concisely and without repetitions, and focus on the key points, without going too much into detail that is not pertinent to the article. Second, have a look if there is more about culture to report. I am not sure if there are sufficient sources, but if there are, the section on the state birds could be expanded into a "In culture" section. If you check and do what's possible towards these two points, I think the article would be ready for FAC. Jens Lallensack (talk) 02:11, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rjjiii talk 02:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the hippocampus of the black-capped chickadee grows in the fall and shrinks in the spring? Source: https://karger.com/bbe/article-abstract/45/1/54/45999/Hippocampal-Volume-and-Food-Storing-Behavior-Are?redirectedFrom=fulltext
  • ALT1: ... that black-capped chickadees who live in harsher climates have larger hippocampi? Source: Birds from more harsh northern climates (defined by lower ambient temperature, shorter day length and more snow cover) had significantly larger Hp volumes and more Hp neurons (both relative to telencephalon volume) than those from more mild southern latitudes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664346/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Integrated Visual Augmentation System

Improved to Good Article status by Grungaloo (talk). Self-nominated at 01:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Black-capped chickadee; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Very interesting facts and even better written article! The size requirements check out. Recent nomination. Well sourced and no copyvios. Looks good to me. I prefer ALT0--NØ 16:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Sexual dimorphism in tarsus length

Am I missing something? "Males and females ... can also be distinguished based on a combination of weight, tail length, and tarsus length. Males have ... a tarsus length of 16–17 mm (0.63–0.67 in). Females are on average slightly smaller, with ... a tarsus length of 16–17 mm (0.63–0.67 in)."

Can we remove mention of "tarsus length" from this section? CbonnerNH (talk) 21:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. pillowcrow 23:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I've reverted the change but fixed the underlying issue. The range of tarsus lengths is the same, but the average tarsus length is different between males and females. Females have ones on average .4 mm longer, so it does factor into the calculation to determine the sex. grungaloo (talk) 23:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Nope - I was wrong. I was using a source which referred to the original study and it misinterpreted it. Reading that actual study does say that tarsus length is not a factor. I've restored the change made by pillowcrow. grungaloo (talk) 00:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)