Talk:Bill Dyer (Australian footballer)

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Requested move 18 September 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved — Amakuru (talk) 15:08, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Dyer (Australian footballer) → Bill Dyer – Sole Wikipedia entry which bears the header "Bill Dyer", thus obviating the need for the qualifier "(Australian footballer)". Analogous to another entry at the William Dyer disambiguation page, Willie Dyer, which is also a standalone entry with no need for a qualifier. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 09:13, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there seems to be a misunderstanding here about how titling works on en.wp: who occupies titles is irrelevant according to WP:Disambiguation, what matters is content. This sparse stub is not the most common "Bill Dyer" in Wikipedia content, the radio broadcaster is, nor is the football stub the absolute "Bill Dyer" in books - Bill Dyer the silent movie gets far more hits in books https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22bill+dyer+was%22&num=10 and Bill Dyer (actor) already has an article. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nevertheless, it should be noted that both "Bill Dyer" and "Willie Dyer" are currently unique names at the William Dyer disambiguation page. If the move succeeds, atop the entry for Bill Dyer, formerly Bill Dyer (Australian footballer), a hatnote would direct to other names at the William Dyer dab, where the entry, "William Dyer (actor) (1881–1933), American silent screen performer also billed as William J., Bill or Billy Dyer" would provide additional explanation regarding the actor.

Another entry at the dab page would be the WP:DABMENTION, "Bill Dyer, American radio sports announcer during 1930s (see List of Major League Baseball All-Star Game broadcasters#1930s)". When / if the announcer ever receives his own Wikipedia entry, the qualifier for Bill Dyer (Australian footballer) can be restored. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 00:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So what? This isn't how Wikipedia works. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:59, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The actor's most frequent stage name was "William Dyer", but he was also occasionally credited as "William J. Dyer", "Bill Dyer", "Billy Dyer" and even "William Dwire". Thus, it is quite appropriate that Bill Dyer (actor) and Billy Dyer redirect to William Dyer (actor). However, since all these names would appear on the same William Dyer disambiguation page, it it suffices to mention the alternative names at the William Dyer (actor) entry without depriving Bill Dyer (Australian footballer) of his position as the sole subject of a main title header which uses that name in a direct manner, rather than as a redirect.

As for Bill Dyer (broadcaster), that redirect should not have been created, because redirects of subjects that have no article discourages creation of such articles by making it appear that these articles already exist. An exception may be made for a celebrity spouse or a major mention in another article, but the broadcaster has no content at all on the list, other than the appearance of his name. Such redirects are particularly misleading when appearing on disambiguation pages, thus suggesting that the link leads to a biographical entry. WP:DABMENTIONs do appear on dab pages, but these should take the form ""Bill Dyer, American radio sports announcer during 1930s (see List of Major League Baseball All-Star Game broadcasters#1930s)", thus demonstrating to users that the DABMENTION only appears on that specific list and does have an article of its own. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 21:47, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. William J. Dyer was also known as "Bill Dyer", and there's no real indication that the Australian rules football player is the primary topic over him. The actor receives more page views.[1].--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:49, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Roman Spinner that Bill Dyer (broadcaster) isn't a helpful redirect. For one thing, the same person is redlinked elsewhere at Bill Dyer (sportscaster), which could result in two links pointing in different directions if someone creates an article for him. Additionally, I don't really see the reason to direct the link to List of Major League Baseball All-Star Game broadcasters rather than, say, List of Philadelphia Phillies broadcasters.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:57, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.