Talk:Big Bad

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Date	Process	Result
December 14, 2007	Articles for deletion	No consensus
April 24, 2011	Articles for deletion	Kept
December 3, 2019	Articles for deletion	No consensus

Television: Buffyverse Low‑importance

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

No consensus, 16 April 2020, from Big Bad to Big bad, see discussion.

Origin

It should probably be noted that "Big Bad" probably comes from "Big Bad Evil Guy" (or BBEG) which is used by tabletop gamers in reference to their main antagonist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.157.104.212 (talk) 14:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking there was at least one Warner Brothers cartoon, circa 1950s, where a young wolf referred to his "Uncle Big Bad." I believe the use of "Big Bad" as a humorous nickname for the Big Bad Wolf, or other villains, well pre-dates both Buffy and RPG. PurpleChez (talk) 16:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion

AS was pointed out before this article isn't good enough, i think that the article can continue but more examples of other tv shows should be used and expanded upon, as an article about Buffy it doesn't have a goon enough reason to exist. --Powerful Lord (talk) 21:53, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A few thoughts: 1. "BBEG" redirects here, but is neither explained nor even mentioned. That is bad, especially since I found this page looking for an explanation of that acronym. (Googling shows possible breakdowns to "Big Bad Evil Guy" or "Big Bad End Guy") 2. The term is defined and used repeatedly in the BTVS roleplaying game to explain the narrative structure of both the television series and of storytelling campaigns, and of story arcs in general. It is useful, however, to differentiate between "A" big bad, describing a role's impact during a series/gameplay, and "THE" Big Bad, describing a single role fulfilling this function in a whole season/campaign story arc. You can also define "fake" or "decoy" big bads, which are a mainstay in storytelling in general (practically every mystery or crime series uses them), allowing for a later twist revealing the true big bad. 3. "The" Big Bad in season 2 of BTVS is Angelus. Spike and Drusilla are decoys. Also, in Season 6 it's evil Willow ("Darth Rosenberg"), with the trio being a deliberately not too convincing fake (except Warren). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.186.179.217 (talk) 13:21, 6 April 2013 (UTC) 4. "Big Bad Evil Guy" is probably a better explanation, since the big bad is not necessarily the last opponent. In old James Bond movies, for example, the big bad fight is usually the climax, followed by a steep drop in tension signalling a (fake) happy end, followed by a postclimax endfight with the 2nd biggest bad, and then, finally, the real happy end (or, in at least one case, a tragic end). 77.186.179.217 (talk) 13:32, 6 April 2013 (UTC) Zeromant[reply]

Requested move 16 April 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Quotations of sources in the current revision use "big bad" (with quotation marks) or Big Bad. While there's no consensus that big bad predominates, some responses do not firmly oppose another move discussion much later. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Big Bad → Big bad – Not a proper noun to begin in caps. While it may have been so during Buffy's run, it has now devolved into a common noun preceded by "the" or "a", eg: "this is way faster than we've ever stopped a big bad". Kailash29792 (talk) 15:38, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, a proper noun with specific meaning on the Buffy series and in scholarly work about the series. The nom first agrees that it "may have been" a proper noun during the Buffy run, but it has now devolved. That's not how encyclopedias work. If it was a proper noun then it still is (the example used in the nom is from some blog, I'm not clicking on it. The sources on the page are much better indicators of case usage). Randy Kryn (talk) 20:47, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The example provided in nom is from a transcript of a TV show (extracted from a DVD?). That example is written in caps several other places, including Wikiquote. Due to it being a functional shift and tied to a persona, it is often written Big Bad and/or in quotes to show intention (and not accidentally missing "Wolf"). Does usage win out over being an improper noun? My unscientific searching found the capitalized version slightly dominate, even now. Ask again in a year or two. StrayBolt (talk) 04:15, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Both capitalisations are equally acceptable. This term is far too recent to treat using the 19th-century prescriptive linguistics theory of English grammar that is still commonly taught in primary schools and which seems the basis for Wikipedia's approach to proper names (which we generally call proper nouns as above) and to their capitalisation. Andrewa (talk) 16:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.