Talk:Betly

Discography

The discography includes a DVD published by House of Opera. As I am not actively involved in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera, I left it the way it is. However, the project guidelines ban House of Opera recordings. ParideVezzoso (talk) 13:10, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Article guidelines#Recordings, I have removed the pirate recording. Voceditenore (talk) 10:34, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

References

The article includes the bibliography, but gives no specific references to substantiate its statements. ParideVezzoso (talk) 18:39, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I added some notes. ParideVezzoso (talk) 13:28, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a big help! However, some of the sources used are not optimal. Both OperaClick and GBOpera are in Italian and OperaClick is basically an amateur website (albeit knowledgeable amateurs). Where available, English sources should be used and wherever possible the sources be books, journal articles, or reviews in professional mainstream publications. I've added some better references and corrected the date of the premiere. Although both OperaClick the Donizetti Society reviews give 21 August. I have changed this. The date of 21 August appears has been perpetrated by Ashbrook, but in all other reference works including more recent ones, and at the Biblioteca nazionale Braidense, Milan, it is given as 24 August. Voceditenore (talk) 11:03, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I tried to uniformize the note style following the style of the ones that you added. I also re-employed Almanacco del giorno to reference two 20th c. performances in Bergamo. ParideVezzoso (talk) 12:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Voceditenore! Ashbrook refers to a personal communication by John Black. I included his dissenting opinion as a footnote. I also employed Ashbrook to substantiate some other statements in the article. ParideVezzoso (talk) 17:21, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Time

Time, at which action takes place, can be identified as 1799 or 1800: Daniele's words Ah! soldati che salgono, fosser francesi o russi? refer to the Italian and Swiss expedition. I would never think of this as independent research, but other editors might have a different opinion, so I decided not to include this in the article. Per cent'anni al cammino restò quest'arma appesa, che il mio bisavo usò nella battaglia di Sempach, that refers to the Battle of Sempach, is an anachronism and an obvious joke. ParideVezzoso (talk) 18:39, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree, it's best to leave this out and just state 18th century (the time in the source work (Jery und Bätely). Anything else would be original research. Voceditenore (talk) 11:14, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Daniele vs Daniel

The libretto is inconsistent in that it uses both Daniel and Daniele as a name. A decision has to be made which form to employ in the article. ParideVezzoso (talk) 10:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Most give Daniele. What's important is to be consistent. I'd stick to Daniele. Voceditenore (talk) 11:15, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Recording, 1973

Discography on the Fondazione Donizetti website includes:

ITALIAN OPERA RARITIES IOR 7721 (LP) 1973 Interpreti: Langridge – Capecchi – Van den Berg Direttore: Jan Schaap Operastichting Zaanstad

Karsten Steiger's Opern-Diskographie, p. 132, gives the singers' names as Philip Langridge, Renato Capecchi and Pieter van den Berg. Who is the soprano on this recording, and what is the bass van den Berg doing there? ParideVezzoso (talk) 11:59, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

That is almost certainly an error. That is the cast, conductor, and label for Donizetti's Il borgomastro di Saardam. See also here. Voceditenore (talk) 11:42, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Could it be that both operas were offered as a double bill that day? ParideVezzoso (talk) 12:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

It's possible, or at least during the same festival. But there is no record of such a recording in WorldCat, and that catalog number only leads to the Borgomastro di Saardam recordings where no other opera or even bonus tracks are listed. I'd leave it out completely. Voceditenore (talk) 12:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay, agreed. ParideVezzoso (talk) 16:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Notable arias

Since Betly doesn't form part of the standard repertory, I'm hesitant to include the Notable arias section. On the other hand, Betly's charming entrance aria seems to deserve special attention in this article. E.g. something along these lines:

Betly's cavatina In questo semplice, modesto asilo features some yodeling music, and exists in recordings by three leading Bel canto repertory exponents of the 20th century, Dame Joan Sutherland, Montserrat Caballé and Margherita Carosio. ParideVezzoso (talk) 15:31, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

• It's very useful information, Paride. You could include it under "Performance history" as a separate paragraph. That's where I include stuff like that for operas that are rarely performed (or recorded) now. Alternatively, you could add it as an intro in the "Recordings" section. Then "There are two full-length recordings of the opera:" (followed by the recording table) Voceditenore (talk) 11:54, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for suggestions, Voceditenore. Both Sutherland and Carosio recordings are by bona fide labels, but Caballé is a bit problematic. The only proper reference I've seen to it is this, and I don't know anything about the label. There is no doubt that the recording exists, because it can be found on YouTube (presumably extracted from the pirate release by the House of Opera). ParideVezzoso (talk) 12:16, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I was too quick about the House of Opera hypothesis: their website says the recording they published is from Barcelona, not Carnegie Hall. ParideVezzoso (talk) 12:21, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

MRF Records was a legit record company. They released stuff on vinyl in the 1970s and early 80s. You can find mentions of them in Google in copyright entries and record reviews. The WorldCat entry for the Caballé recording is fine to use as a reference. For the reference just paste in {{OCLC|4827107}} which produces OCLC 4827107. Voceditenore (talk) 12:44, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Voceditenore! I added the corresponding information to the recordings section. Please also have a look at the newly created Analysis section. And then also the synopsis, that I expanded considerably in comparison to what was prepared by previous editors, requires some copy editing. ParideVezzoso (talk) 17:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Drawings

There are some 19th drawings available here, that perhaps could be used in the article, but unfortunately I can't figure out what's the status concerning their rights. ParideVezzoso (talk) 08:49, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Those are public domain. The artist, Filippo Del Buono, has been dead for 100 years. They can be uploaded to Commons. I'll try to upload one or two of them in the next few days. Voceditenore (talk) 11:45, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Performance history

I supplied the performance information, but there are some gaps left. Could anybody with access to Donizetti, Napoli, l'Europa. Atti del convegno (Napoli 11-13 dicembre 1997) check the article on Betly and fill in the missing information? ParideVezzoso (talk) 16:23, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I think I closed the gaps now. ParideVezzoso (talk) 14:52, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia recycled

An amusing fact: this Wiki article appears to have served as the main information source on Betly for this review on Operalounge.de (modulo some extra mistakes made by the author). ParideVezzoso (talk) 11:02, 25 November 2015 (UTC)