Talk:Beta Israel/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Beta Israel. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Goren

He was never cheif Ashkenazi Rabbi, he was chief rabbi of IDF, big differences

Wrong. -- Zsero (talk) 00:27, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Position in Israel

This article does not mention alleged discrimination faced by Beta Israel. Nor does it give any account to their integration into Israeli society or where siginificant commnities are. As far as I recall there are substantial communities in certain suburbs of Tel Aviv.

I am adding a section about the current situation of the Ethiopian Jews in Israel. I am still tweeking the section so be kind.--EhavEliyahu 16:42, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll answer your questions. Ge'ez as a spoken language: 1. Beta Israel groups are mainly from North Ethiopia from states where Amharic and Tigrigna are spoken. Ge'ez is a designated sacred language used by various groups all over Ethiopia and it isn't used unless one is reading scriptures and/or conducting a church/synagogue ceremony. 2. Beta as opposed to Beit: It's not a matter of word play to indicate one's regional designation (Ashkenazi, Ethiopian/Mizrahi, Sephardic,etc). Simply, "Beta" is in Ge'ez and is equivalent of Beit in Hebrew and both mean "house [of]". 3. This isn't your question but just to clarify possible misconception created by this article, "Falasha" is a word that comes from "me-feles", meaning to migrate. The term Falasha was probably given by the group to indicate that some groups within this society are actually migrants (and they acknowledge this history by indicating where they came from), and the term wasn't intended to negate them as this article and some western publications suppose. Falashas do refer to themselves as Falashas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.18.208.195 (talk) 06:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I am thinking of creating an article simply about black israelis, inclu converts, African Hebrew Israelites,, Sudanese, Mixed Race, and the Beta Israel/

Beta Israel speak Geez?

I thought they spoke a language called Geez?--Josiah 04:50, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ge'ez is an archaic, ancient language, that is used as a holy language.Datepalm17 12:00, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Beta Israel? Why not Beit/Beyt (בית ישראל)? Also, here in Israel the "Falash Mura" are called "Flashmura" (פלאשמורה), I think. Dorfl 02:50, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

(Sorry about delayed reply:) “Beta Israel” (or “Beta Esrael”) because this is the name they identify under. “Bet Yisrael” is also a broader term applicable to just about any Jewish/Israelite group and therefore unusable as a specific term for this group. Also, the forms “Beit” and “Beyt” reflect a specific subset of European (mainly Ashkenazi) Jewish pronunciation which would be problematic even if this problem of ambiguity didn’t exist. -- Olve 21:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

1: Yes, we do speak Ge'ez as a liturgical language, but more of us speak Kayla, which is fading away and far more speak Hebrew, Tigriña and/or Amharic (depending upon which region in which they were raised as not all were in Gondar, some even still lived in or around Aksum or other parts of Tigray and some in the mountains in Amhara and some even had been forced to move to the Sudanese side of the Sudanese border a generation ago, so the primary language can vary from region to region).

2: The correct transliteration of ቤት ኢሥራእል or ቤት ዪሥራእል is Bete, not Beta. I'd have hoped someone would have asked one of us rather than assuming such things, or at least ask anyone else who speaks any of the Semitic "Ethiopic" dialects, Ge'ez, Kayla, Tigre, Tigriña, Amharic or Gurage, etc, because "Bete" is spelled the same in all of them and this is commonly known and practiced by every person who is proficiently literate in any one of these languages. I am an inside authority on this, being a ranking member of the Bete Yisrael clergy in the diaspora.

Furthermore on the subject of what to call us, it MUST always be noted and respected that we consider both the terms "falash mura" and its root "falasha" to be pejoratives, because the latter, "falasha", is a corrupted term of Arabic origin, roughly translated, means "they who do not belong" or "infiltrators" not merely "strangers" which is a far more polite than realistic translation of "falasha". To call us "falasha" is very much like calling Hispanic American people "illegal aliens". It is offensive and that fact should always be a matter of record. Furthermore, we do not accept the arbitrary declaration of some rabbi that we are the remnant of the "lost tribe of Dan" which in reality is "lost" because they were "cut off" (IE: "made extinct") for being the first tribe of Israel as a whole to abandon our faith for idolatry before Israel actually had a mortal man as king and long before the division of Yahuda from the Northern Kingdom.

Why does nobody pay any attention to our own account of who we are and what tribe we are from? Our oral tradition of our history which has been recorded in an ancient book entitled the "Kebre Negast" (Trans: "The Glory of the Kings" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebra_Nagast also) which DOES have an English translation available to read on the web at http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/kn/ and in said text one can see that we are the descendants of Menilek I and the battalion of 3000 men of Judah (the divided Kingdom of Judah) who followed him and their families, as well as 3 dozen Levitical priests loyal to King Solomon and the Kingdom of Judah who also brought their families and all of them followed Menilek I as he migrated back from his father King Solomon's palace to the birthplace of Menilek (what was then called the empire of "Aksum") and that they brought Tsion,("Tsion" being the actual name of the Ark of the Covenant) with them having first replaced it with a replica, which replica accounts for the Ark having been written about in Israel in later generations). Such things are documented in the "Kebre Negast" (which itself is often mistransliterated as "Kebra Negast") which was transcribed from our oral tradition by priests of the Abyssinian Orthodox Church,(roughly about 800 years before they were granted autocephally from the Coptic Church), before which it existed only as "oral tradition" which is not without good precedent, since the same was the case for the accounts and genealogies of the book of Genesis which existed only as oral tradition before being codified by Moses and is now widely accepted. There are numerous other small and not so small errors and omissions that I can and do plan to later address and correct, regarding this and related articles, for the sake of accuracy. Always better to consult experienced members of a culture than to ignore them and publish inaccurate accounts and/or distorted assumptions. It is not as if we are extinct and unable to be asked what is truth and what is error.

Forgive me if my entry on this talk-page is not according to the rules or not in exactly the right place, as I am new at this use of discussion pages and honestly trying to learn. [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Volunteered informaton helps, but for producing scholarship, cooperation and corroboration would seem essential. I'm going to do my four tilda (Wikisignature) and invite e-contact. Commart (talk) 17:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

DNA/genetic evidence?

How credible is the "DNA evidence" mentioned here? I've never heard a compelling case for a "Jewish gene," especially considering that many modern Jews are likely to be either the decendents of converts (such as the Khazars) or the product of centuries of occasional interbreeding with neighboring goyim. --Cholling 23:45, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The evidence is quite credible. A "Jewish gene" is not really a scientific concept, but the genetic relationships within and between different populations can be measured. Ashenazi Jews are closely related to Sephardi Jews, and both are closely related to other Middle Eastern populations (and not to European populations). Beta Israel are closely related to other Ethiopians, and not to any of the other groups. Here's a link to one study: [1]. Jayjg ^(talk) 23:59, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

In my opinion, really think it is not a good idea to use the word "gene" if you are not talking about scientific concept. Its also hard to get a definative result using the DNA for such a large group of people, but then again i may be seeing too many detective movies. Anyway, there is a story here of Israel doubling Falash Mura immigration. [2]

The question I have on the DNA testing done is in terms of whether the numbers of Ethiopian Jews, constitutes that the entirity of Ethiopian are devoid of the DNA markers found in the Sepharadi, Teimani, Ashkenazi, Lemba, Samaritan, etc. populations that were tested. I stress the last part, because some of the data I have seen seems to suggest that the people who were tested had the connection, but that some didn't. For example one report I read seemed, and I stress seemd, to suggest more Ashkenazi Levites, had similar DNA to non-Jewish Slavic people and that fewer Sepharadi Levites had similar DNA to the local population in their region. [3] None of the evidence I have seen so far suggest that all Sephardim, Mizrakhim, Teimainim, Ashkenazim, etc. are conclusively related by the DNA. Most of the information I have seen seems to be on-going in nature. [4]

What I mean is the following: most of the DNA research I have seen on the matter shows that 38, 19, etc. Ethiopian Jews were tested. We know that thousands of Ethiopian Jews, and non-Jews immagrated to Israel during Operation Moses and Operation Solomon. We also know that untold numbers of Ethiopian Jews died trying to make their way to Israel and the Sudan. That being said, it would seem that the data at this point points to a number of Ethiopian Jews having no genetic connection to the before listed Jewish communities. I.e. that the men tested do not descend from Ancient Israelites. According to one study I read there seems to have been a connection between certain Yemenite Jewish men that were tested and Ethiopians.[5] I state all this to wonder if the wording in this article should be worded to take this into account. The possibility could still remain that the majority of Ethiopian Jews descend from Gerim, which halakhically still makes them descendent of Jews since Gerim who go through a Beith Din are Jews, converted by a minority group of Jews from Yemen or Egypt. That is to say that there could still be a minority with similar Yemenite or Egyptian Jewish genes that simply haven't been tested. I think this is important to recognize or at least look into given that most of the interest in the Beta Israel has been to either disprove they are Jewish or to make them seem inferior to other Jewish communities. I am not saying that this is the case with this article in its current state, but I am wondering if there is a way to word it so that the facts as we currently have them can be more crystal. Regardless, if the Rabbinate recognizes them as Jews then they are Jews. Just some thoughts. I can come up with some wording later tonight and see if it is acceptable. --EhavEliyahu 21:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Felasha?

Several seemingly trustworthy websites refer to "Felasha" in the tenth century, such as this one: "The Felasha (Jewish) queen Yodit, daughter of the quasi-legendary Gideon, led a destructive expedition against Axum around 980." Since the Falasha, according to this article, weren't even around in this period, is this just a blatant mistake on their part? - BanyanTree 17:26, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

From the Ethiopians Gentiles' point of view, "falasha", as a Semitic word root, also means "intruder, foreigner" (פ-ל-ש) which is already close to the meaning of the name.--Bo Basil 12:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

There's plenty of legend around masquerading as history. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:32, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Gudit is a semi-legendary personage, whose facts are as mixed with legend as is the case with King Arthur. (Unlike the case with Arthur, we have a contemporary document that mentions her, so we can be assured she existed.) Experts are divided over whether she was Jewish, pagan, Agaw, or a queen of the Kingdom of Damot in the south of Ethiopia. But the reference to "Falasha" is anachronistic: I just found a passage today in my research that shows that "Falasha" was not used to refer to these Agaw Jews until the reign of Zara Yaqob. -- llywrch 21:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Rabbonim

There is no need to have a long list of Rabbonim who rule one way or another on this article. It suffices to list the most well known and respected posek ruling each way, and to state which view is held by the majority.--Josiah 19:03, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

Four of the most respected Rabbis of the late 20th century? I think each of their names should be included. There are many more who have ruled that way, I've restricted myself to just four. As it is, the claim "most" is unclear, unless you included some of the names. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:43, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Josiah, each one deserves to be mentioned. Off the top of my head I cannot state the fine details of each psak, but if one posek is mentioned, that does not mean others hold that way. The fact that Rav Waldenberg allows abortion of a known Tay-Sachs fetus does not mean this is followed in practice. Typically, the "majority view" is decided when several poskim arrive at the same conclusion, as has been mentioned on this page. This is more encyclopedic than "most poskim" (which is imprecise). JFW | T@lk 21:13, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In fact, Rav Waldenberg used to be in my list, it was 5 poskim, but I took out one as a compromise. Should I put him back? Jayjg ^(talk) 21:28, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes. -- Olve 18:13, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The long list is just fine....their prejudicial, biased, ethnocentric opinion should be exposed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.50.200.2 (talk) 16:09, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Article

An article highly relevant to this page is in Haartez at [6] and also in Forward at [7] (needs free registration). --Zero 02:59, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Population figures

For years I've been reading much higher figures than those listed in the article. I've changed the figures in accordance with this article, from http://www.shavei.org/ which, while the organization has a vested interested in this community (and others), is also in a pretty good position to have accurate figures. Tomer ^TALK 19:44, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Ethiopian Judaism & Ewostatewos

Is the following an accurate paraphrase of Harold Marcus' POV?

Marcus pinpoints their origins to the persecutions of the sabbatarian movement of Abba Ewostatewos (c. 1273–1352), the remnants of which he believes grew into the Beta Israel of today.

I ask this because the followers of Ewostatewos (who did argue for the observance of a Sabbath on both Saturday & Sunday) were persecuted for a time, but eventually their beliefs were adopted by the Ethiopian Church at a synod in 1450, & are now accepted as mainstream within that belief. (References include Taddesse Tamrat, Church and State in Ethiopia, 1270-1527, and Edward Ullendorff, The Ethiopians: An Introduction to Country and People.) I'd like to think that Marcus is being misunderstood, rather than that he betrayed such a major misunderstanding about the history of Ethiopia.

(FWIW, Paul Henze, in his Layers of Time: A History of Ethiopia also accepts this hypothesis that the Beta Israel originated from an archaizing movement within Ethiopian Christianity, & refers to James Quirin's work.) -- llywrch 18:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Update. I've found this assertion in Marcus' book (A History of Ethiopia [Berkeley: University of California Press, 1994], p. 23). I'll be gentle here, & state that his argument is based on an oversight in his research. The dates above for Ewostatewos' life are close to what Taddesse Tamrat provides in his book: the earliest mention of the Beta Israel I have found is in the Glorious Victories which reports events in the year 1332 (or 1329, if we follow G.W.B. Huntingford's arguments). For a professed Christian to embrace the Old Testament so violently that he inspires non-members to be even more radical than he (i.e., claim to be Jews) strains one's credulity; maybe if this had been a change that could be shown to have been simmering for a generation or so, this would be plausible.

Add to this chronological fact the following:

One of Ewostatewos' followers settled amongst this group with the intent of missionizing them;
Ewostatewos (who was a very controversial figure during his lifetime) was never accused of Judaizing the faith (which would have been a powerful tool to have refuted his followers);
Ewostatewos had little or nothing to do personally with the regions where the Jews are known in the 14th century to have lived;

and Marcus needs to develop a far more detailed argument than what he has written in his History to believe his argument.

This is not to say that this theory is untentable: only Marcus' specific argument is. As a result, I've replaced the text mentioning him with a quotation from Paul B. Henze, who puts forward a similar argument -- but IMHO better -- argument. -- llywrch 22:16, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Beta Ysrael and Ethiopian History

The deletion from my sections on the "western discovery" od Beta Ysrael, and the role Beta Ysrael plaid in Ethiopian history, I feel considerably lessens the worth of this article.

The claims made about copywrite are not true. The article is based on a compilation of sources drawn from a number of scholarly works prepared for an article on Ancient Biblical History in 2004.

Regards

John D. Croft 22:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I see wording basically equivalent to that of the Virtual Jewish Library (whose copywright status I do not know).

For instance, from [this section http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ejtime.html] of the VJL, I see these copywrite problems. Croft's writing italicized, the VJL's bolded.

1769 — Scottish explorer James Bruce awakens the western world to the existence of the Ethiopian Jews in his travels to discover the source of the Nile. He estimates the Jewish population at 100,000.

Daniel Ben Hamdya, an Ethiopian Jew, in 1855 independently traveled to Jerusalem to meet with rabbis

1855 — Daniel Ben Hamdya, an Ethiopian Jew, independently travels to Jerusalem to meet with rabbis.

followed in 1864 by Rabbi Azriel Hildesheimer, the Rabbi of Eisenstadt, Germany, publishing a manifesto in the Jewish press calling for the spiritual rescue of Ethiopian Jewry. Three years later Professor Joseph Halevy is the first European Jew to visit the Beta Yisrael, subsequently becoming an advocate for the community.

1864 — Rabbi Azriel Hildesheimer, the Rabbi of Eisenstadt, Germany, publishes a manifesto in the Jewish press calling for the spiritual rescue of Ethiopian Jewry.

1867 — Professor Joseph Halevy is the first European Jew to visit the Beta Israel, subsequently becoming an advocate for the community. (the next sentence is downright wrong, claiming there are only 35,000 Beta Israel)

From [elsewhere http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ejhist.html] on the site:

Little additional contact was made with the community, but in 1935 their stability was greatly threatened as the Italian army marched into Ethiopia. Ethiopia's ruler, Emperor Haile Selassie fled his country and actually took refuge in Jerusalem for a short time. Selassie returned to power in 1941, but the situation for the Beta Israel improved little.

In 1956, Ethiopia and Israel established consular relations, which were improved in 1961 when the two countries established full diplomatic ties. Positive relations between Israel and Ethiopia existed until 1973 when, in the wake of the Yom Kippur War, Ethiopia (and 28 African nations) broke diplomatic relations with Israel under the threat of an Arab oil embargo.

In 1956, Ethiopia and Israel established consular relations, which were improved in 1961 when the two countries established full diplomatic ties. Positive relations between Israel and Ethiopia existed until 1973, when, in the wake of the Yom Kippur War, Ethiopia (and 28 African nations) broke diplomatic relations with Israel under the threat of an Arab oil embargo.

Months later, Emperor Selassie's regime ended in a coup d'etat. Colonel Mengistu Haile Mariam, whose Marxist-Leninist dictatorship increased the threat to the Beta Israel, replaced Selassie. During the weeks surrounding Mariam's coup, an estimated 2,500 Jews were killed and 7,000 became homeless.

Months later, Emperor Selassie's regime ended in a coup d'etat. Selassie was replaced by Colonel Mengistu Haile Mariam, whose Marxist-Leninist dictatorship increased the threat to the Beta Israel. During the weeks surrounding Mariam's coup, an estimated 2,500 Jews were killed and 7,000 became homeless.

Soon Mariam instituted a policy of "villagization": relocating millions of peasant farmers onto state-run cooperatives. This policy greatly harmed the Beta Israel by forcing them to "share" their villages (even though they were denied the right to own the land) with non-Jewish farmers, resulting in increased levels of anti-Semitism throughout the Gondar Province. According to the Ethiopian government, over 30% of the population had been moved from privately owned farms to cooperatives as of 1989.

Soon Mariam instituted a policy of “villagization,” relocating millions of peasant farmers onto state-run cooperatives which greatly harmed the Beta Israel by forcing them to “share” their villages—though they were denied the right to own the land—with non-Jewish farmers, resulting in increased levels of anti-Semitism throughout the Gondar Province. According to the Ethiopian government, over 30% of the population had been moved from privately owned farms to cooperatives as of 1989.

After taking office in 1977, Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin was eager to facilitate the rescue of Ethiopia's Jews, and so Israel entered into a period of selling arms to the Mariam government in hopes that Ethiopia would allow Jews to leave for Israel. In 1977, Begin asked President Mengistu to allow 200 Ethiopian Jews to leave for Israel aboard an Israeli military jet that had emptied its military cargo and was returning to Israel. Mariam agreed, and that may have been the precursor to the mass exodus of Operation Moses began.

In the early 1980's, Ethiopia forbade the practice of Judaism and the teaching of Hebrew. Numerous members of the Beta Israel were imprisoned on fabricated charges of being "Zionist spies," and Jewish religious leaders, Kesim,(sing. Kes) were harassed and monitored by the government.

In the early 1980's, Ethiopia forbade the practice of Judaism and the teaching of Hebrew. Numerous members of the Beta Israel were imprisoned on fabricated charges of being “Zionist spies,” and Jewish religious leaders, Kesim,(sing. Kes) were harassed and monitored by the government.

The situation remained exceedingly bleak through the early 1980's. Forced conscription at age 12 took many Jewish boys away from their parents, some never to be heard from again. Additionally, with the constant threat of war, famine, and horrendous health conditions (Ethiopia has one of the world's worst infant mortality rates and doctor to patient ratios), the Beta Israel's position became more precarious as time progressed.

The government began to slightly soften its treatment of the Jews, however, during the mid-1980's when terrible famines wreaked havoc on the economy. Ethiopia was forced to ask Western nations for famine relief, including the United States of America and Israel, allowing them both to exert a modicum of pressure for the release of the Beta Israel.

Over 8,000 Beta Israel came to Israel between 1977 and 1984. But these efforts pale in comparison with the modern exodus that took place during 1984's Operation Moses.

Over 8,000 Beta Israel came to Israel between 1977 and 1984. But these efforts pale in comparison with the modern exodus that took place during 1984's Operation Moses.

There are 5 principle theories of their origins, not all of them mutually exclusive.

1) They may be descendants of Menelik I, son of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.

2) The Beita Yisrael may be the lost Israelite tribe of Dan.

3) They may be descendants of Ethiopian Christians and pagans who converted to Judaism centuries ago.

4) They may be descendants of Jews who fled Israel for Egypt after the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BCE and eventually settled in Ethiopia. (Number 5. is his own doing)

Because much of the Beta Israel's history is passed orally from generation to generation, we may never truly know their origins. Four main theories exist concerning the beginnings of the Beta Israel community:

1) The Beta Israel may be the lost Israelite tribe of Dan.

2) They may be descendants of Menelik I, son of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.

3) They may be descendants of Ethiopian Christians and pagans who converted to Judaism centuries ago.

4) They may be descendants of Jews who fled Israel for Egypt after the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BCE and eventually settled in Ethiopia.

(Excerpted from “Reunify Ethiopian Jewry,” World Union of Jewish Students)

Now here's some stuff from [this http://www.falasha-recordings.co.uk/teachings/ras.html] website (and many others, including The History Channel, with the exact same info and wording, with minor changes).

Some scholars place the date of their origin before the 2d century BC, largely because the Beita Yisrael are unfamiliar with either the Babylonian or Palestinian Talmud. The religion of the Beita Yisrael is a modified form of Mosaic Judaism unaffected generally by post-biblical developments. The Beita Yisrael retain animal sacrifice. They celebrate scriptural and nonscriptural feast days, although the latter are not the same as those celebrated by other Jews. One of the Falasha nonscriptural feast days, for example, is the Commemoration of Abraham. Their Sabbath regulations are stringent. They observe biblical dietary laws, but not the postbiblical rabbinic regulations concerning distinctions between meat and dairy foods. Marriage outside the religious community is forbidden. Monogamy is practiced, marriage at a very early age is rare, and high moral standards are maintained.

The center of Beita Yisrael religious life is the masjid, or synagogue. The chief functionary in each village is the high priest, who is assisted by lower priests. Falasha monks live alone or in monasteries, isolated from other Beita Yisrael . Rabbis do not exist among the Beita Yisrael.

Falashas, native Jewish sect of Ethiopia.The origin of the Falashas is unknown. One Falasha tradition claims to trace their ancestry to Menelik, son of King Solomon of Israel and the queen of Sheba. Some scholars place the date of their origin before the 2d century bc, largely because the Falashas are unfamiliar with either the Babylonian or Palestinian Talmud. The Bible of the Falashas is written in an archaic Semitic dialect, known as Gecez, and the Hebrew Scriptures are unknown to them. The name Falasha is Amharic for "exiles" or "landless ones"; the Falashas themselves refer to their sect as Beta Esrael ("House of Israel").

The religion of the Falashas is a modified form of Mosaic Judaism unaffected generally by postbiblical developments. The Falashas retain animal sacrifice. They celebrate scriptural and nonscriptural feast days, although the latter are not the same as those celebrated by other Jewish groups. One of the Falasha nonscriptural feast days, for example, is the Commemoration of Abraham. The Sabbath regulations of the Falashas are stringent. They observe biblical dietary laws, but not the postbiblical rabbinic regulations concerning distinctions between meat and dairy foods. Marriage outside the religious community is forbidden. Monogamy is practiced, marriage at a very early age is rare, and high moral standards are maintained.

The center of Falasha religious life is the masjid, or synagogue. The chief functionary in each village is the high priest, who is assisted by lower priests. Falasha monks live alone or in monasteries, isolated from other Falashas. Rabbis do not exist among the Falashas.

From a ton of sites, again:

Other Researchers think some of the defeated Yemenite Jews from the Abu Duwas Jewish Kingdom came to Ethiopia.

The following is taken from [here http://wwwa.britannica.com/eb/article-9033614], the Encyclopedia Britannica.

From 1980 to 1992 some 45,000 Falasha fled drought- and war-stricken Ethiopia and emigrated to Israel. The number of Falasha remaining in Ethiopia was uncertain, but estimates ranged to only a few thousand. The ongoing absorption of the Falasha community into Israeli society was a source of controversy and ethnic tension in subsequent years.

I don't have time to find copywrites for the rest of the material, but you can see that much, if not most of it is word for word for other (copywrited) texts.

Get rid of the DNA material

There is too much material on DNA here. First of all, it isn't important. DNA does not determine whether or not somebody is Jewish. Would an encyclopedia entry on the Irish be devoted to analyzing their Y-Chromosomes and mitochodria, to determine the relative importance of their Norse, Pict, and Celtic bloodlines?

I am very interested in this kind of study, but there is too much of this material on this island. Can we move this DNA material to another page? How about a separate page on Ethiopian Jewish genetic studies, referenced from here?

Many of the people who are devotees of these genetic and quasi-racial studies don't realize how preliminary and sketchy the work they admire is. Responsible human geneticists understand that studies with 38 or 11 individuals who are not randomly selected cannot be interpreted so strongly. However, the average user of this encyclopedia does not know that.

Haplotype analysis, the basis of such ethnic studies, is a cummulative body of knowledge. It depends on identification of sufficient genetic markers to organize individuals into an inverted tree. With such a tiny sample, how did they even know what genetic markers to test for? In these studies, there was insufficient data to create such a tree. A study based on such a tiny number of individuals, either in the Ethiopian Jewish population or in other populations to which they are being compared, is very preliminary. Not until much more data is known can we make such inferences. The comparable studies done with Ashkenazi Jews look at hundreds of individuals, and yet they still have not identified many of the haplotypes.

I have some pictures of Ethiopian Jews in Israel to share here, but there is no place to put them here right now. The Ethiopian Jews are not frozen in time. This article needs material about the modern Ethiopian community in Israel, and the issues that have arisen as they have adjusted to living in a modern, western society? In Israel, young Ethiopian Jews have now grown up speaking Hebrew, and some have graduated from universities and earned advanced degrees. --Metzenberg 11:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

DNA information is important in this article for the simple reason that some people felt that this group of Ethiopians were in fact not a lost jewish tribe, but were just trying to get into Israel by pretending to be jews. Remember, unlike being a christian or muslim, one can't just make the claim that one is now of the jewish faith by just saying so (or with a fairly simple baptism type ceremony). So if the Falashah's claim to be jewish wasn't true, what would be their reason for emigrating? DNA is at least one possible way of determining the truths of their story. I'm not opining here, just stating why I think this section of the article is important.Odysseybookshop 17:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Odysseybookshop

Please Do separate between word "ISRAELITES" whom were Genetically blood descendants of Israel/Jacob(i,e BLOOD LINE RACE), and between The word "JEW" who is any one adhere to the Judaic Faith(i.e RELIGION), That is because GOYIM Ashkenazi and Sephardim Jews around the world BOTH of them Have NO Genetic relation to Semites people let alone genetically blood tie to ancient Hebrew people(whom proven to be Genetically blood ancestors of today Arabs)

82.5.167.237 (talk) 18:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

That is incorrect, European Jews are of mixed Middle Eastern/European ancestry. FunkMonk (talk) 18:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the Sephardim are true blood-lineage Yahudi, descendants of former captives of Babylon who were freed by Darius, most of which returned to Jeruselem but many stayed in Persia and it is no mere coincidence that there is even today still a mountain range named the Sephard Mountains located in Western Iran. Said Yahudi migrated across Northern Africa and crossed into Spain from Morocco and then continued migrating into Italy and other parts of Europe. There is a definite historical and genetic link between the Sephardi and the Solomonic Kingdom of Judah. However as even genesis 10:1-3 tells us, the Ashkenazi are descendants of Ashkenaz,(the son of Gomer, grandson of Yafet, and great grandson of Noah) and the post-deluvian migration patterns show that Ashkenaz was an ancestor of Eastern European gentiles, some of which likely converted to a form of (or their own rendition of) rabbinical Judaism but I have yet to see any evidence that they had any Semitic blood before they began interbreeding with Sephardi. Remember, Semitic means "descended from Shem" and Shem was Yafet's brother. Logically speaking, how can one be Semitic descendants of Yafet before said interbreeding began, thousands of years later? Please show me some evidence other than speculation and hearsay for it. [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Somewhat insulting

Much of this article seems to push an anti-Beta Israel view. Some specific problems I have are with the Rabbinical views (no Rabbis since the Radbaz are shown supporting the fact that Beta Israel are Jews and yet further up it is indicated that Ovadia Yosef acknowledged there Jewishness. Can he be the only Rabbi with this position? Also, all the Rabbis quoted are ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazis. I'm no expert on halakhic authorities, but wouldn't it be better to have a wider range of Rabbis with a wider range of positions?) Also, I don't see the usefulness of the comparisons in the Henze quotation. Both those examples stayed quite definitely Christian and would never be mistaken for non-Christians. Typically, Christian groups that absorbed enough Jewish elements to be confused with Judaism haven't lasted long (the only other example I can think of is the Skhariya example, and I don't think that lasted more than 30 years.) If, as this article seems to state the Beta Israel stem from rebellious Christians, shouldn't it be explained why they lasted longer than any other such group? Also why is the possibility of Judaism in pre-Christian Ethiopia rejected despite the fact that the Tewahedo Church follows many more seemingly Jewish laws than other well-established Christian group (and how can such conclusions be reached when the historical record of Ethiopia before 1300 is has gaps)? I know it is hard to get answers to these questions (I hope I have time to research some of them this month), but I think it would make a more balanced article. As it is, it is incomprehensible that attacks on the Judaism of the Beta Israel should take up so much of the article, when articles on some groups of Indian Jews whose claim to Judaism is more tenuous have much less space devoted to such attacks.--Lastexpofan 08:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Expo Fan. I couldn't agree more. Sephardic rabbinical authorities have been more supportive of the Ethiopian Jews and Beta Israel, perhaps because they knew that the Ethiopian Jews would be likely to reward them with political support in the long run once they all became Israeli voters. All of which illustrates how so-called rabbinical and religious opinion is sometimes merely political posturing. --Metzenberg 12:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

There's one sentence on Rabbis who suspect their Jewishness, vs. an entire section on the supporting view. I hardly think that's unbalanced. The Ovadia Yosef reference used to be in there, but it was deleted by an anonymous IP editor. I've restored it. As for the rest, Wikipedia quotes reliable sources on subjects, we don't do our own original research. Jayjg ^(talk) 21:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of not doing 'our own research', what evidence is this statement qualified by :Most of the Beta Israel consider the Kebra Negast legend to be a fabrication? Is there any kind of polling numbers that anyone can provide to support such assertion? I have removed the entire paragraph until it is supported by some sort of evidence. If not, this mere hearsay and should have no place on an information source the claims to be balanced. I agree, this article is blatantly biased against Bete Israel Jews. Peelinglayers (talk) 04:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as a member of the Bete Yisrael and of our clergy I can assure you that it is a false rumor that most of us reject Kebre Negast. It is our own oral history of our migration which also proved to be a narrow escape for us from the Babylonian captivity which came very soon after we left and the Empire of Aksum was indeed under Yahudi rule from Menilek I until the Orthodox Gentile rebels staged a successful coup around 359-AD and except for the breif reign of Yodit, the nation was under gentile control ever since with only a token amount of Davidian blood in the monarchs thereafter, just to satisfy God's promise to David that his seed would reign in the land of Tsion for all time. This is the account of one of our arrivals (not the first arrival) as we've always believed and taught in our oral tradition, which is now preserved in the Kebre Negast. As for earlier Arrivals, we also believe that the "Ethiopian" gentiles are actually the ancient Midianites aka Ishmaelites and that the Arab claim to be Ishmaelites is a fiction that Arabs tell in order to build a false premise upon which to lay false claim to the land of Israel. However, people who believe that claim seem to have forgotten entirely that Ishmael was never promised any such inheritance,(only that he would have many descendants who would always have ongoing disputes with other Abrahamic descendants). In the account of Yosef being sold by his brothers to the Ishmaelite caravan, in that very same passage Torah also calls this same caravan Midianites, thus showing us that Midianites are Ishmaelites. A very good study on this was published by Dr. Robert Morey,(a Christian Apologetics professor who holds an earned degree in Islamic Studies). [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

What I intend to do is not what is described in the original research article. I read a recent book on the subject that has a different POV from much of the article. I just don't feel like citing it without checking its sources, since some of it was a bit shaky, so therefore I need time to research, especially since there aren't a whole lot of readily accessible Ethiopian history books.--Lastexpofan 07:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the best way to please all sides in this is to provide more information about the traditions and history of the Beta Israel from their own sources and perspectives. I do agree that this article seems to be bogged down with information trying to prove or disprove the Jewishness of the Beta Israel. One way to balence this is to simply add more information about their community structure and religious life when they were Ethiopia and now that they are in Israel. --EhavEliyahu 15:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Encyclopedic coverage of the community can discuss the views of various authorities, but the article should, in the main, discuss the community itself, not outside views regarding the legitimacy of its claims to Jewishness. Tom e r ^talk 04:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I think some of the information I have added in the Religous practices and Ethiopian Jews in Israel today should now satify those who feel to much of the article was about their origins. I will look for some more info about the current situation in Israel.--EhavEliyahu 21:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Once again, author, thanks for sharing "doubious" info on history section before you kindly edited it. And your strong POV still remains from your responses below as "pagans and Jews", commentary of the unlikelihood of Saba's journey to Solomon's Kingdom, etc. What I am concerned about is that this isn't a history to be written by you unless you are an authorized scholar, preferably from Ethiopia, since it would be "kind" to give people to tell their own history. No other nation has the official authority to write the history of U.S. or Israel except for scholars with sufficient expertise. I strongly suggest you take off this article as I am contacting both Wikipedia and scholars in Ethiopia and/or Israel (Falasha) on this issue, in the meantime, I thank you for your attempt to write my history but nontheless I question your authority of writing on this subject, and you also present a one sided point of view on the group. I ask you to remove your article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.18.208.195 (talk) 06:14, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Origins of the Beta Israel

There is a serious problem with the interpretation of the Lucotte article and its import into the present context. Luccote performed Y chromosome analysis comparing ethiopian jews to non-jewish ethiopians. What this methodology fails to take into account is the traditions of the ethiopians themselves that holds that the entire population of northern ethiopia was jewish before the arival of christianinity. For a review of this issue see (http://www.13suns.com/EJUDAISM.HTM) The Beta Israel see themselves as the last remaining followers of an ancient faith. Thus any comparison between "jewish" ethiopians and "non-jewish" ethiopians has to be tempered by that fact. The non-jews are seen as ancient jews who adopted christianinity, and Islam. The fact is that the issue is confused by the uncertainties and misinterpretation involved. For example the Sephardi and Ashkenazi communities are not isolates. They have had a very intense and continuous interaction with one another. The same goes for most other jewish communities that follow modern Rabbinical judaism. The reality is that any commonalties found among them might, probably did, arise post-exile. The fact the the Beta Israel do not have the exact same profile as Sephardi, Ahkenazi, or Cochin jews for that matters means nothing as there was significant gene flow between these communities even cotinuing to this day. Given the Beta Israel's isolation divergence should be expected. Most revealing in the Lucotte article is where he explains that An important point to consider is the result concerning haplotype VIll, the ancestral haplotype in Jews (Lucotte et al. 1996); this haplotype is present at a frequency of 23.1% in non-Falasha Ethiopians. In fact, the Jewish haplotypes VII and VIII occurred at similarly high frequencies in samples of Lebanese (Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993) and Palestinians (Lucotte, unpublished data, 1997); so it seems more practical, as proposed by Spurdle and Jenkins (1996), to consider that elevated frequencies of these 2 haplotypes may represent most of the Semitic groups. (http://www.ethioguide.com/aa-ethioguide/ethioguide/News_Archive/1299/origin%20of%20falasha_jews122399.htm) It's not hard to realise that this data only supports the thesis that ealy on there was an influx of immigrants from the syria-palestine region to northern ethiopia bringing with them judaism. The day=ta finds that HVIII, known as the ancestral Jewish Haplotype is found at the level of 23% in "non-jewish ethiopians." This is as high as found among lebanese and palestinians. How could these high rates be explained? In the end the problem with the entire section on the analysis of genetics of the ethiopians jews is really one conceptual road block. The general perception of a jewish population is an that of isolated pockets of groups seperate from the major population. Such a picture fails in the enthiopian context, where the ancient kingdon in northern ethiopia experienced a large influx of jews, who left their cultural mark on the entire population in the region, and who progressively melded with the local population over a very long time period indeed (800BC). In the Kaplan book cited, he mentions that ethiopian priests claimed that half the population was of jewish extraction during the ancient period. He calls this an "exageration" yet how can we be sure. He also mentions a large number of hebrew and aramaic loan words in the Geez language. How can we explain this. The bible also indicates that "beyond the rivers of ethiopia" there were jews living in acient times. In short eveidence that jewish ethiopians look like, or are similar to non-jewish ethiopians, is not evidence of local origin for ethiopian jews at all. Not in any way shape or form! The only evidence would be that northern ethiopians in general do not show evidence of genetic imput from the near east. In fact the Luccote article shows just the opposite, with ethiopians shown to have the jewish haplotype at high rates indeed. In fact just as high as Lebanese and Palestinians who actually live in the area known to have been the center of ancient jewish kingdoms. In general I fault the entire article for not mentioning the theory, for which there is ample evidence, that the entire population of northern Ethiopia adopted the mosaic faith in ancient times prior to christianity. This is something looked at in the Kaplan book, and in others. Although conclusions might be drawn that the numbers of isrealites living in the area during ancient times was small while others might claim it was larger. Given the scant historical data, and often conflicted information this cannot be kown with certainty. What is known, and agreed to by most scholars is that it was there, i ancient times there was judaism in ethiopia. It had an effect on the ethiopiancoptic church in that this churc is closer to the kosaic faith than any other curch in the world. It is possible that these ancient jews just vanished, and then centuries latters a new, completely different group of jews calling themselves the Beta Israel emerged suddenly. Or it is possible that the Beta Israel are the only in northern ethiopia to remain faithful to the ancient ethiopian/hebrew tradition. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216979 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 1 October 2005.

From my understanding there is no evidence for any cultural continuity between those judaised groups in Ethiopia (lake Tana area) and the group that later emerged as the beita israel. In fact all the evidence is to the contrary since all the texts, liturgy etc of the beita israel appear to date no earlier than the 14th century and originate from the ethiopian church. It is also slightly after this that we first begin to hear the term 'Falasha' ( probably meaning 'without land'). This is not to say that the group emerged 'suddenly'. The Falasha probably do have origins from previous judaised groups, however not all these groups emerged as Falashas and not all Falashas emerged from these groups.

Perhaps there could be something about the biblical references to Beta Israel? Isaiah 11:11 was mentioned shortly, but Acts. 8:27 should be mentioned too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.249.236.122 (talk • contribs) 00:37, 17 January 2006.

History

I just did a major rewrite of the history section involving a lot of trimming but also addition of information. The anon who added the information is clearly relatively well-versed in Beta Israel history, but also a bit confused. The Zagwe dynasty for instance was certainly Christian, for instance. The Rock-hewn churches of Lalibela are a clear testament to that, especially Beta Giyorgis (not to mention that basically all of the rulers are celebrated as Saints and Priest-Kings by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church). I also removed a lot of dubious information regarding early origins. It's generally believed now that Judaism didn't exist in Ethiopia until Medieval times (certainly by the 13th/14th century, possibly in early medieval times as well). Jacqueline Pirenne's views (certainly not the foremost scholar on the Sabaeans) on the possibility of ancient migrations of Jews involving Saba' are unlikely and generally not accepted, especially considering that Epigraphic South Arabian is a descendent of Proto-Sinaitic but not Proto-Canaanite or Phoenician like Hebrew. I left some of the theories that sounded more plausible that I didn't know much about wrt their veracity, but added citation tags. I also very much doubt the accuracy of "one million" Jews in Ethiopia in the 17th century. Though certainly present in full-force in Gonder, the capital (itself the 2nd largest city in the world at the time) and surrounding areas, the majority of Ethiopia wasn't home to many Beta Israel, and the population of Ethiopia at the time would have probably been less than 10 million, making the 1 million figure a bit suspect. I would also like to caution against the use of "Jewish," as a general term for the Beta Israel, as there are other Agew groups that have Jewish traditions. I'll be adding more on later history tomorrow. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 08:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I am the "anon" contributor whose comments were so tendentiously edited out or recast by the above "editor." Much of what he/she says seems to present a pretty strong POV. In effect, any other point of view is rubbished, either removed from the site or rephrased in such a way as to nullify it. The editing is consistent. For example, I wrote in my contribution the following: "According to probably the leading scholar on the Sabeans, Jacqueline Pirenne, the spread of Sabeans across the Red Sea to Ethiopia began in the 8th or 7th centuries BCE when considerable numbers of Sabeans crossed over to Ethiopia to escape the Assyrians who had already devastated the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, and were extending their raids further south. Jacqueline Pirenne summarizes 30 years of research (cf. Munro-Hay, Aksum, 65) into the Sabeans by adding that a second major wave of Sabeans crossed over in the 6th and 5th centuries BCE to escape Nebuchadnezzar; this wave included Jews fleeing from the Babylonian takeover of Judah too. These Jews and pagans constituted a kind of aristocracy ruling the kingdom of Da’amat in the Tigray area of Ethiopia ( in the northwest near the Red Sea), with their capital at Aksum. She also suggests that some or almost all of these Sabeans and Jews returned to southern Arabia in the succeeding centuries, leaving elements of their civilization firmly imbedded in Ethiopia and maintained by native Ethiopians. This Aksumite culture established itself as the “high culture” of Ethiopia, with a written literature and trade and cultural contacts with the wider world, creating stone buildings, palaces and temples, making it admired by and quite superior to the mostly illiterate pagan tribal cultures around it who had only wood and thatch buildings. These cultural contacts brought constantly renewed encounter with Jews elsewhere in Judah and north and south Arabia, and the literacy and literature of the Jews ended up permeating and changing Sabean and Aksumite cultures and peoples. We have to do with a gradual but effective and widespread conversion of the local peoples to Judaism, around perhaps a core of Jews from abroad. In this way, says Pirenne, we can understand the Jewish influence on Ethiopian culture, and the persistence of the Black Jews in Ethiopia."

Most of this contribution has been eliminated, and the editor declares ex cathedra that Pirenne is not such an authority on the Aksumite and Sabean cultures as claimed. However, I am not the source of that claim; I merely reproduce what Munro-Hay himself says on this. What this really means is that our editor is of the coterie of revisionist scholars centering at Hebrew University, which has entirely bought into the Quirin thesis about Beta Israel history and origins. No other respectable historical viewpoint therefore can be recognized. This is not the sort of scholarly neutrality we expect from encyclopedia articles, and does not follow Wikipedia guidelines. Pirenne and Munro-Hay and the many other scholars taking a more positive view of the depth and antiquity of Judaism in Ethiopia should be given a respectful hearing. They are not a small weird group of dissenters. Actually, it is the other way around; the Quirin-Kaplan group are the dissenters, who wish to take over the entire discourse by a forced reading of the whole of Beta Israel history.

Pirenne was not at all the leading scholar on Sabaeans and Ethiopia. There are a number of leading scholars (Anfray, AJ Drewes, Fattovich, Schneider, etc.), but Pirenne's theory is not at all widespread. It was first proposed in the 1970s I believe, and hasn't gained much support since then. There's absolutely no evidence of Jewish traits in the Kingdom of D`mt, though there are some gods from the Sabaean pantheon worshipped. Current dating, moreover, no longer fits with Pirenne's dating. Whereas she would have the first Sabaeans in Yemen beginning around the 6th and 5th century BC, the earliest inscriptions in Yemen are from the 8th century BC (Norbert Nebes, "Epigraphic South Arabian" in von Uhlig, Siegbert, ed. Encylopaedia Aethiopica: D-Ha. Weissbaden: Otto Harrassowitz KG, 2005 p.333). The first in Ethiopia are from the 9th century BC, so a migration from Assyria to Ethiopia wouldn't work since the first deportation of Jews was under Tiglath-Pileser III, who ruled in the second half of the 8th century BC. It also doesn't fit with the fact that the Jews were using an alphabet completely different from South Semitic scripts. Moreover, that there were only "wood and thatched buildings" before D`mt is not at all correct. I direct you to Fattovich's "The development of urbanism in the northern Horn of Africa in ancient and medieval times," which identifies a number of preceding urban complex cultures in the region. Note that Munro-Hay is not an authority on the Beta Israel by any means. His book on Aksum is certainly a masterpiece, but the reviews I've read of his work usually point out the unlikelyness of Pirenne's theories. Furthermore, I am not of the "coterie of revisionist scholars centering at Hebrew University" as you assume, just an informed Ethiopian. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 05:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

For example, another section of my contribution that was simply eliminated related to the Ethiopian Christian persecution of Beta Israel down through the ages. It is a part of the Catholic scholar Quirin's case that Jews were not significantly persecuted by the mostly benevolent Ethiopian Christians, and there was nothing like the antisemitism or Judeophobia characteristic of other lands. So the following comment by me was just wiped from the article: "Some of the worst massacres, attacks and forced conversions of the Christian kingdom occurred in the 1400s, for example, under the King Yacob Zara. (He even added the title “Exterminator of the Jews” to his name, and his subjects were required to tie a strip of parchment to their foreheads bearning an inscription expressing their commitment to the Christian faith.)"

That section was never removed. I couldn't find a source for "King Yacob Zara [sic]" ever claiming that title, nor for the "worst massacres, attacks and forced conversions...occurr[ing] in the 1400s," so I put a citation needed tag on it. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 05:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Another portion of the original contribution related to the Jewishness of the Zagwe dynasty. However, our editor assures us that this dynasty was not Jewish at all, and I am just "confused" about it. In that case, so were both Christian and Muslim testimonies of the Middle Ages. Naturally, it has always been in the Christian interest to devalue or dismiss any deep Jewish claim to Ethiopian antiquity. Quirin certainly shows this. Our editor says that a proof of Christian Zagwe rule is the excavated church ruins from that period. But he/she ignores that I did not deny the existence and even flourishing of Christianity during the Zagwe dynasty, since it appears that this Jewish dynasty was quite tolerant not only of Christianity but also of paganism. The founding queen was called Gudit, Judit, and even Esato (Esther), according to the Kebra Negast. These are all clearly Jewish names. However, it is not entirely clear from the Christian chronicles whether she actually was Jewish or pagan (naturally they would try to discredit her Biblical legitimacy, as they would all Jewish resistance), and later scholars have interpreted her in both ways. The names would certainly seem to be Jewish and even to underline her Jewishness. Nevertheless, a decisive proof of her Jewishness, in my view, is the fact that the Zagwe dynasty that stemmed from her kin legitimated itself, and sought to better the claims of Aksumite kings, by claiming to be descended directly from Moses and his Ethiopian wife, even according to the Kebra Negast itself. This geneaological claim indicates her Jewishness. It cannot be mere coincidence that this claim is the same as that we hear from Eldad the Danite in the 9th century, before she existed, and from Beta Israel of more recent date, long after she and her Jewish dynasty have disappeared. Arab historians explicitly affirm that she was a Jewish queen. It is hard to know how much more evidence one needs that she was. Of course, there are modern scholars that still reject these attributions and insist that she was an anti-Christian pagan, or even “Jewish/pagan,” whatever that means (cf. Munro-Hay, Aksum, p. 15; Ullendorf, History of Ethiopia, 61), simply because of the vagueness of the Christian royal chronicles, the Kebra Negast. It is quite possible that some of these sceptical scholars are inclined by their Catholicism (in the case of Jean Doresse and Quirin) or other motives. Tradition says that 11 rulers of the Zagwe dynasty followed after Judith, in the course of some 330 years. According to traditions reported both by Arabs and by early modern European travellors in Ethiopia (e.g., James Bruce, in his 1773 account) some of these rulers were Jews, some were pagans and some were Christian, so the Zagwe dynasty inaugurated by Queen Judith was remarkably tolerant and ecumenical, fitting the Jewish Biblical view that non-Jews can know God too. By the way, Manuel de Almeida wrote in the 1640s regarding this, "There were Jews in Ethiopia from the first. Some of them were converted to the law of Christ Our Lord; others persisted in their blindness and formerly possessed many wide territories, almost the whole Kingdom of Dambea and the provinces of Ogara and Seman. This was when the [Christian] empire was much larger, but since the [pagan and Muslim] Gallas have been pressing in upon them [from the east and south], the Emperors have pressed in upon them [i.e., the Jews to the west?] much more and took Dambea and Ogara from them by force of arms many years ago." In regard to the downfall of the Zagwe dynasty, which I repeat was by all indications a chiefly Jewish dynasty, at least in origin, Christians bitter at the shared rule with infidels nursed dreams of revenge, which were fulfilled when in 1270 the “true Solomonic rule” was “restored” by King Yekuno Amlak. Again according to Stuart Munro-Hay, Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity (1991), however, King Amlak was actually a warlord who could not have been of the direct line of the old Aksumite kings. One further point. I recall when doing research on these questions some twenty years ago at the Truman Center at Hebrew University that I read a scholarly article (no longer remember the author or journal; could have been Pe'amim) on the names of the Zagwe rulers, which argued that these names showed a regular pattern of Jewish, Christian and pagan kings sharing the rule between them. The Zagwe dynasty was truly extraordinarily tolerant, entirely unlike the "Solomonic dynasty" that followed it, and which was dedicated from the start to wiping out Jewish sovereignty and power, and giving no quarter to paganism.

What "Christian and Muslim testimonies of the Middle Ages" are you referring to that claim the Jewishness of the Zagwe dynasty? There are no such testimonies as far as I am aware. I have no reason to deny any Jewishness of Ethiopia in antiquity; indeed, I used to think it true before I knew much about the matter, but the evidence simply doesn't support such a view. Note that the "excavated church ruins [sic]" (the churches were not excavated, they have been in continuous use and are not at all ruins) are not the only thing that supports the view that the Zagwe were Christian. Most of the kings are worshipped as Saints in the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, and no sources of the medieval period call the Zagwe Jews. Not being "Israelites" is not the same thing as being Jews. Note that "Gudit" is not a Jewish name, but from an Ethio-Semitic word gud meaning "freak, monster, strange, wonderful" and the name is a "symbolic term connoting masculine powers as well as unsual characteristics (according to Taddesse Tamrat, cited - Knud Tage Andersen, "The Queen of Habasha in Ethiopian History, Tradition and Chronology," Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 63, No. 1 (2000), p.20.). Note also that "Esato" (better transliterated "Isato") is not the name "Esther" (that is "Aster," a common name in Ethiopia for Christians, I'm not sure as to its popularity among the Beta Israel), but rather connected to the Ethiosemitic word "Isat," meaning "fire," and is connected to the tradition that she burned down Aksum and Aksum Tsiyon. "Yodit" does mean "Judith," but it's a name used for Christians in Ethiopia as well, so characterizing her name as "Jewish" is not accurate. A Zagwe claim from Moses makes them no more Jewish than does "Solomonic" Emperors' claims of descent from the Jewish King Solomon. The religion of Gudit is uncertain. Tradition credits her as being Jewish, the account of the interaction of the Church with its counterpart in Egypt indicates that she may have been pagan, but that section is possibly a later addition, and it's even possible that she was originally seen as a legitimate inheritor of the ruling Aksumite dynasty, as Anbessa Widim, a late Aksumite King remembered as such, was ruling ca. 1125-50 (from a contemporary note in a colophon of a Bible by the Patriarch of the time in Ethiopia), yet by this time the Zagwe dynasty must have already been established. I'm not well-versed in Eldad Ha-Dani's claims, but apparently (according to Steve Kaplan, whom you of course dismiss, seemingly categorically) his works don't show much knowledge of the area (Ethiopia) from which he purported to have come, and his writing shows absolutely no Ethio-Semitic or Cushitic influence (see also Ullendorf-Beckingham 1982; Morag 1997). What traditions by Arabs are you speaking of that say that some Zagwe were Jewish, and to what era do they date. Can you give me a page number or chapter for Bruce's claim? I've never heard such a claim, but such a late tradition conflicts with earlier, more contemporary data on the dynasty and is more useful in analyzing Ethiopian perceptions of Kings and dynasties than reconstructing Zagwe history. It's obvious that the Solomonic dynasty probably wasn't at all an accurate designation (but not necessarily that they were related to the Aksumite dynasty), and the existence of Jewish communities in Wogera/Wegera, Semien, and Dembiya isn't at all in doubt. What would be defined as a "Jewish name," Tim Tam? The longer list of eleven rulers are as follows: Mara Takla Haymanot, Tatadim, Jan Siyum, Germa Siyum, Yemrehana Krestos, Qiddus Harbe/Harbay, Gebre Mesqel Lalibela, Na'akweto La'ab, and Yetbarak. All of these names are either Cushitic or Ethiopian Semitic in origin — i.e., there are no biblical names among them. It's true, however, that much of the Christianization and expansion of Monastic communities occured during the early Solomonic dynasty (esp. under Amde Tsiyon, e.g.).

One portion after another of my contribution, however, wherever it seemed to indicate justification for a perspective other than the Quirin-Kaplan one, was simply eliminated from the article. I again register my complaint at this high-handed procedure. As other contributors to this discussion page have said over the years, an anti-Beta Israel agenda seems to be guiding the editors of this article. But I am too busy to pursue the matter further. I am quite confident that as a new generation of Beta Israel in Israel itself matures and enters the scholarly study of their own history, the rather blatant and strange partisanship presently dominating the Hebrew University account of Ethiopian Jewry will be overthrown and the revisionism, stemming in the first instance from Christian apologetics, and no doubt furthered by the rather far-left Peace Now ideology I noticed dominating the Truman Institute itself and its regular cultural events and presentations, will be discarded. Let me add that I have no doubt at all of the sincere good will and the scholarly standing of Kaplan and the others of his coterie at Hebrew University. I am sure that they believe themselves right. But they do need to give a little more space to other views. Those other views do exist in the scholarly world, are of serious weight and authority, and should not just be dismissed out of hand. Tim Tam 02:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no anti-Beta Israel agenda, and I do not see why having an indigenous origin as opposed to being foreigners mixed with the local population can be construed as such. As you can see above, there are legitimate problems with your view. I may have mentioned this earlier, but, as one example, Gudi/Yodit/Isato was never referred to by contemporary accounts as being Jewish. Ibn Hawqal's reference to her, and the (probably later addition) mention in the History of the Patriarchs of the Egyptian Church do not refer to her as Jewish (Ibn Hawqal calls her the "Queen of the Habasha"), though there is no conclusive evidence either way. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 05:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles

Hello,

WikiProject Ethnic groups has added new assessment criteria for Ethnic Groups articles.

I rated the Beta Israel article: B-Class, with the following comments (see link to ratings summary page in the Ethnic groups template atop this talk page):

Extremely thorough coverage of topic.
The History section is unusually long. It would probably be beneficial to break this into subtopics, to aid reader comprehension.
A very good start on using inline links, Harvard referencing or Cite.php footnotes. However, long stretches of text are not cited. This is a meaningful flaw.

You can give this article (and any other article within the WikiProject) a rating, as described below.

-->How to assess articles

Revisions of assessment ratings can be made by assigning an appropriate value via the class parameter in the WikiProject Ethnic groups project banner {{Ethnic groups}} that is currently placed at the top of Ethnic groups articles' talk pages. Quality assessment guidelines are at the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team's assessment system page. After rating the article, please provide a short summary to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses. To add the summary, please edit this article's ratings summary page. A link to this page can be found in the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the article's talk page.

Please see the Project's article rating and assessment scheme for more information and the details and criteria for each rating value. A brief version can be found at Template talk:Ethnic groups. You can also enquire at the Ethnic groups Project's main discussion board for assistance.

Another way to help out that could be an enjoyable pastime is to visit Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles, find an interesting-looking article to read, and carefully assess it following those guidelines.

Thanks!
-- --Ling.Nut 04:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it undisputed that Falasha are Jews ?

It is stated in the first sentence that the Falasha "are Jews of Ethiopian origin". The Israeli regime and orthodox Jews and Zionists may believe this, but what about the other 99.9% of the world? It seems that 0.1% rules Wikipedia.

The Falasha do not have language or culture or religion in common with Jews (but Jews do not have language or culture or religion in common with each other). So why are they "Jewish"? Except for their racial heritage, which some advocates of their "Jewishness" deny is a factor.

To answer your question. The Beta Israel are recognized as Jews by themselves and also by a majority of the other Jewish communities from the Middle East, North Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Americas. The issue that they had faced was in terms of their differences in certain legal matters as it pertained to marriages and divorce law. The questions about their heritage mainly began because of the fact that they did not have extensive direct contact with other Jewish communities until about the 1400's CE. Essentially, because there is documentation of them practicing Judaism for more than 600 years as a group they are accepted as Jews. The issues that you see are mainly about their origin prior to that 600 year period. This debate falls into the following categories.

The Ethiopian Jews descend from the tribe of Dan, and came to Ethiopia during the 1st Commonwealth of Israel.

The Ethiopian Jews are descendents of Habbani Jews (Southern Yemen) who came to the region and married into or converted members of the local population.

The Ethiopian Jews are descendents of Christians who took on a more Judaic perspective either through direct or indirect contact with Jews of Southern Egypt or Yemen.

Most of the debates about their pre-600 history revolve around the above points. So they are accepted as being Jewish due to their known and documented history of practicing Judaism. They are recognized by Sephardic sources due to the word of Sephardic rabbis going back to the 1400's. They are recognized by most Ashknenazi authorities based on the ruling of the Cheif Ashkenazi Rabbis. Yet, because of the issues as they pertain to differences in areas of Jewish law like divorce. There are a number of Ethiopian Jews who had to under a "Symbolic Conversion" in order for them to not be separated from other Jewish communities. This is a bit of an over simplification of the issues, but the article has to cover all these issues.--EhavEliyahu 17:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

As for the above claim that we have no language or culture in common with Israelite "Jews" spoken Ge'ez is descended from Aramaic which is descended from Hebrew, even if the Ge'ez script itself is originally of Sabaen origin. As for culture, we follow the culture prescribed in Torah! How is that not the same culture shared by Israeli Jews (IE: the minority of them who are still practicing the faith of Torah rather than abandoning it for secularism, atheism or whatever else). Our language is a descendant of Hebrew and many of the words are still the same or very close and our culture is Torah observance. Just because we reject rabbinicism means nothing, since so does the Qaraim (Karaite Jews). A better question is who authorized rabbinicism to supplant the Torah-ordained offices of the Kohenim and the Nevi'im with man-made office of "rabbi"? Hmmm? [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Un-sourced Material About Beta Israel having Hebrew texts

I deleted the following un-sourced material. Does anyone have a source for this information?

It appears that following the conquest of the Kingdom of Gondar^{[dubious – discuss]} in the 17th century, all Jewish holy books were destroyed, and their study forbidden.^{[citation needed]} If Hebrew writings were still extant, this is the time when they were definitively lost. However, the Jews persisted in reading what they could, including the "Old Testament" of the Christian scriptures written in the Christian holy tongue Ge'ez. The Jewish monks, in any case, had retained knowledge of Ge'ez from their ancient Christian antecedents. Great care was taken by these monks and priests to eliminate specifically Christian texts, practices and ideas. Thus, ironically, the Christian religious literature was used selectively to provide the continuing foundation for study of the Jewish sources. This helps to account for some of the texts (and practices) used by the Beta Israel that are not found elsewhere amongst Jews.

If someone can provide sources I will put it back into the article.--EhavEliyahu 00:14, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

EhavEliyahu, try contacting Kokeb Gedamu, a kahene (priest) who has taken to using the title rabbi lately,(which I officially object to, but I don't harbor ill will over it). He has had contact with our people in Israel and Gondar in recent years, since he presided over a number of houses of worship in Netanya/Tel Aviv for our people for a number of years before moving to Pennsylvania. You can contact him at his organization website, HOIsrael.org for the "House of Israel International", as they call it. If anyone I know of can direct you to any valid sources on this subject, he can. If you wish, you may tell him that you were sent by T'ru Menilek, the current rasnebiy for Bete Yisrael Mesihawi. He and I have spoken over the phone several times. [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 02:40, 29 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Menilek (talk • contribs)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 16:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Prominent Israelis of Ethiopian Jewish background

The "Prominent Israelis of Ethiopian Jewish background" should be split into separate articles (assuming most of the unlinked subjects don't already have articles, I haven't checked). I think a list of links to the individual articles would suffice. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear author of Beta Israel Article: Please Pay Attention!

Before I go on, I like to point out how it's very ORIENTALIST of the author to write on and on about this community based on debates and books he/she read. I am under the assumption, as is the author, that he/she is intelligent enough to cite the article. However, one question that doesn't seem to occur to this brave Wiki scholar is the possibility of misrepresentation of Ethiopian Jews (be it through the books and his/her approach to the topic). How can a group that is left virtually voiceless, a group of people who are silenced and marginalized by those who know appear to know them better than themselves? Whom have they authorized to be completely stripped down for everyone's inspection and approval? This is a general tendency of European minded sense of agency to speak in behalf of and/or represent a group outside of its own. Dear author, if you haven't read Orientalism by Edward Said, now is the time, although I doubt you will. But surely, you, the author, have no right or authority to write on historical, religious and cultural discourse, especially when Wikipedia is a source of learning for millions and those who read this article will take this as an accurate account. Needless to say, I hated the article and even more so most of the comments because such mistakes and ignorance are abominations in the era of knowledge and enlightenment. It was irresponsible, considering the comments you've generated through this article! This is unacceptable. So, PLEASE, call University of Addis Ababa and speak to a scholar, professor, somebody and educate yourself. It seems, from your article that you state what you found in the books (written by Europeans) as a matter of fact, while you ponder the claim of this group, and their history reluctantly. This is the history of my country, and this group is part of people. I don't expect you to whip out your colonial gazers and start dishing out whatever you find in books as God's given word. So, I wait for your reply stating your authority that qualifies you to write a historical account. Just because you can write a college essay and bibliography, that doesn't mean you can become instant historian. If you don't have any qualifications, then take off the article from this site immediately. I'll arrange for a scholar who can replace your contributions. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mishka411 (talk • contribs) 13:32, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, this being a wiki, the article has no single author, and anyone (including yourself) is free to make edits. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the obvious. My point, though, is that this article holds a very orientalizing view of a group and serves as a survey of Beta Israel Ethiopia history with heavy errors. While I don't understand why people who have no authority of the group are editing or writing this article, I object to the idea of my history being written by people who do not know my community or my country outside of western textbooks (which we all know how subjective they are) and google image pics. So, GYROFROG, I hope that clarifies what I wrote. Considering that the Western population knows little about a lot of groups outside of U.S./Europe confine, it's rather dangerous just to "wing" and edit someone's history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.18.208.195 (talk) 06:31, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

If you are able to identify the errors, then at the very least please identify them for us, or better yet replace them with better information that cites reliable sources. Thanks in advance, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I actually sent emails to several Ethiopian Israelis asking them to work on the article. None of them came to contribute or edit the article. One Ethiopian Israeli friend of mine who read the article didn't have a problem with it. Are you an Ethiopian Israel, and if so would you be willing work on the areas you say need to be corrected? Can you also give references of books written by Ethiopian Jews on the topics? For example, one of the areas I felt needed to be worked on was the section about religious traditions.--EhavEliyahu 13:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Pardon the cliche, but: "What am I, chopped liver?" [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Beta Israel

Dear contributors,

WikiProject Beta Israel has been launched at the Hebrew Wikipedia nearly a year ago. I am glad to say that my fellows have achieved a significant progress in establishing a free, reliable database about the fascinating heritage and history of the Beta Israel community. Both the English and Hebrew Wikipedia could benefit from this project, as many important resources are only available in either Hebrew or English. Kayla is one small example for an English article heavily contributed by a Hebrew-only source.

If you are a bilingual English and Hebrew writer, your help could be most valuable. I encourage you to visit the WikiProject page and edit it as you see fit. Best regards, Lior (talk) 12:30, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

To Menilek

I am reverting all of your changes from "Beta Israel", the legitimate name of this group, to "Bete Israel". The fact that it is more phonologically correct in Amharic does not change the official narrative on the group. In addition, you profess that it is a "church denomination" that this is in reference to. Rather the opposite - this refers to the historical Ethiopian group that has largely immigrated to Israel. (BTW, this may be in violation of Original Research, but I've Googled your name. Turns out you really ARE a "church denomination." Please keep your Messianic garbage out of this article.) --OneTopJob6 (talk) 04:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've read quite a bit on them, and They do not claim to be from the Tribe of Dan, they don't connect their origin o the Lost Tribe myth at all, they believe they came with the Ark (When Varies not all agree on the Menelik myth).

The Idea of them being Danites primarily comes from statement a controversial Medieval traveler made about them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.23.208 (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The fact is that the vast majority of Bete Yisrael people ARE Messianic and the rabbinate and the highest courts of Israel have ruled that Messianic Jews ARE still Jews and also ruled again the same way in a case more specifically about the "Falash Mura" Bete Yisrael people (who are the majority of Bete Yisrael and who are ALL Messianics). Your obvious prejudice and hostility against Messianic Jews does not give you the right to override said authorities and take it upon yourself to virtually declare us as gentiles. As the courts and other authorities correctly ruled, becoming messianic does not change one's ethnicity. Ethnically we are Jews. Just as is the white Jew who becomes a Buddhist or an Atheist (as many have), just as when a Japanese man converts from Buddhist to Christian, he does not cease to be Japanese, nor does some guy on Wikipedia have the right to prevent him from being recognized as being Japanese as you are trying to make people not recognize Messianics as Yahudi and in doing so, you not only violate our human rights, but also do exceed and abuse whatever authority may have been granted you, if any. And I do not think I used the term "church" per se, more likely "religious denomination", but even if I did, the term church can legitimately be used to refer to a body of religious people, not just gentile Christians. For example, cults, which are arguably NOT christian, still refer to their facilities as "church". Nor is it legitimate for you to condemn us only on the grounds of semantics, which, if I did use the term, was mostly for the benefit of the reader to understand that a legal argument was being made just as the American legal term "separation church and state" can apply to a synagogue just as much as it can apply to a Baptist facility or a Roman Catholic facility. The word Church is NOT just for Christians. If you doubt me on that, just look through the Yellow-Pages under "Churches" for San Francisco or Manhattan. Certainly you can't honestly think that Anton LaVey's "Church of Satan" is a Christian church just because it uses the word "church" in it's name! Furthermore you are arguing with me about me claiming we are "Danites", when in fact, I NEVER claimed that we are the tribe of Dan. Quite the contrary. I assert that we are NOT the tribe of Dan and never were. And the reason I give for this is because the tribe of Dan was 100% extinct, even before David became King of Israel. So I can not understand at all how you would think that I ever claimed that we are the tribe of Dan. I can only guess that maybe in your moment of bias, you just skimmed my edits, instead of really reading what was actually being said. Against this I must protest. [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You've claimed your own biases as trufax a priori, without substantiating them. You merely go for the ad hominem in this case, calling me an anti-messianic bigot. Your small group does not claim any hold over the truth as determined by the world community, and we will not allow you to use Wikipedia to spread your fringe views. Basically, I'm glad you're gone. --OneTopJob6 (talk) 18:16, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Integration section

This section needs to be enhanced, there is missing a lot of points, such as :

the differences in theology between orthodoxe and beta israeli and its consequences in the integration process
role of Kessim in israel. New beta israeli rabbi, having an orthodoxe formation, while some part of the older priests refusing to accept this way of preaching (and rejection of talmud).
difference between older generations and integrated new generation that have been teach the orthodoxe way etc.
Cultural troubles, as beta israeli had previously a really religious life but diferent from the teachings of the talmud, lots of tabou, life centered on the tribe. All was contradicted by the way of life of israeli jews.

"Social contact between the Beta Israel and other Ethiopians was limited. It was not because of the laws of Kashrut, since all Ethiopians share the same food taboos. Ethiopian Jews were forbidden to eat the food of non-Jews. The Kessim were more strict about the prohibition against eating food prepared by non-Kessim. Beta Israel who broke these taboos were ostracized and had to undergo a purification process. Purification included fasting for one or more days and ritual purification before entering the village."

Huge diference with israeli jews. The conscequences of this, after settlement in israel should be present in the article. Israel has choose to refuse their traditions and teached the youth beta israeli to follow the orthodoxe traditions, which leads to the gap between generations.

Kessim are not allowed to celebrate weddings (althought some rabbi accept their presence, but their are the only one that can really conclude a wedding). Israel tried to force the beta israeli to a conversion procedure before allowing wedding (just to be sure). It was refused by the beta israeli, as they are jews, and saw that as a rejection of their jew status. It was more easily accepted by Falasha Mura, and they were better integrated. Also, they accepted more easily the orthodoxe teachings and teh talmud, as a huge part of them were not practicing their judaism in Ethiopia (only a small group are still christians). Which is really diferent from the other beta israeli, as they were really religious.

Few new Kessims following the beta israeli traditions, were nominated in israel, but not accepted by rabbi cause they dont follow the talmud teachings.

There was also a protestation in 1996 against racism, after finding that blood given by beta israeli to help hospitals was destroyed without even testing, by fear of aids.

In the young generations, they are different level of integrations. Also, even those who have accept the orthodoxe teachings and are well economically integrated, they do feel they lost something and that they are different : there is a growing social identification centered on their ethiopian origins (rather than when they were in ethiopia, seeing themselves as jews diferent from the ethiopians) and the color of there skin. There is also a growing phenomenon of identification to black americans culture and cultural signs.

I'm really sorry for my poor english, i just would like to point that the article is missing those points (religious integration). Could it be possible someone look for english sources to explore those points and present them in the article, please ? Lilyu (talk) 00:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Genetics of the Lost Tribes

The genetic evidence presented here sounds very convincing on the surface, but as a previous poster pointed out, it can't rule out the very possible scenario that the Ethiopians began as a Jewish people. In fact, the Tribes of Israel article includes an interesting quote from Tacitus, that many believed all the Jews were of Ethiopian origin. But suppose for a moment that the Beta Israel truly have closest affinity to ancestral non-Jewish African peoples - even then, I am not sure this data means anything. After all, if these people are actually descendents of the Tribe of Dan, or any other "Lost Tribe", then they could have notable genetic differences from those of the Tribe of Judah.

Which brings me to my question: what is known of the physical similarities and differences of the various Tribes of Israel from ancient times? After all, the story goes that all were slaves in Egypt - maybe one tribe consisted of olive-skinned people from the east, another of dark-skinned people from the south? Each with their own genetic affiliations? Is that plausible or just a crazy idea? Wnt (talk) 15:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Grave problems in the "DNA evidence" section

Each of the studies cited in the "genetic evidence" section suffers from several grave problems:

Thousands of samples are needed to generate a robust genetic marker for a given population group.^[1] The findings reported are thus a coincidental outcome of the few dozens of Beta Israeli persons selected for each of the cited studies.
The metric by which genetic distance was measured until 2008 was found to be valid for the genome of E. Coli, but not for humans, or even for Drosophila.^[2] It is plain wrong to claim that two human population groups are more adjacent to each other than another, based on the old metric.
A reliable statistical hypothesis test for population structures has only been suggested in 2006.^[3] The cited studies were published prior to 2006, and have at best calculated their statistical significance incorrectly, if at all.
None of the findings cited in the "genetic evidence" section appears at any scientific review article. That they all hint towards the same conclusion merely reflects the personal choice of Wikipedia editors - here are three later articles suggesting strong genetic links between Beta Israel and other Jewish diasporas.^[4]^[5]^[6] These studies suffer from the same problems listed above.

This field of research deserves its own coverage in Wikipedia, as part of the racial discourse on the origin of the Jewish people.^[7]^[8]^[9]^[10] I have not found similar sections on articles dealing with other Jewish diasporas, and see no good reason to have such a pseudoscientific section in the main Beta Israel article. The findings cited in this article should reflect solid scientific concensus, whereas the existing section selectively cites preliminary findings later found to be invalid. I thus suggest to remove the existing "genetic evidence" section. Best, ליאור (talk) 11:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

^ Ein-Dor L, Zuk O, Domany E., Thousands of samples are needed to generate a robust gene list for predicting outcome in cancer, PNAS 103, 5923-5928 (2006)
^ Tanay A, Siggia ED., Sequence context affects the rate of short insertions and deletions in flies and primates, Genome Biol. 2008;9(2):R37
^ Patterson N, Price AL, Reich D., Population Structure and Eigenanalysis, PLoS Genet. 2006 Dec 22;2(12):e190 PMID 17194218
^ Lovell A, Moreau C, Yotova V, Xiao F, Bourgeois S, Gehl D, Bertranpetit J, Schurr E, Labuda D., Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and western Eurasia, Ann Hum Genet. 2005 May;69(Pt 3):275-87. PMID 15845032
^ http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1182266
^ http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1182106
^ Kahn SM, The multiple meanings of Jewish genes, Cult Med Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;29(2):179-92, PMID 16249949
^ Parfitt T, Egorova Y., Genetics, history, and identity: the case of the Bene Israel and the Lemba, Cult Med Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;29(2):193-224 PMID 16249950
^ Steven Kaplan, Can the Ethiopian change his skin? The Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) and racial discourse., African Affairs 98:535-550 (1999)
^ Raphael Falk, Zionism and the Biology of the Jews, Ressler, Tel Aviv 2006

So you disagree with these studies? That's all well and good, but the studies still say what they do. You need to find other reliable sources that disagree with them, rather than simply deleting them. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:29, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Please read carefully the arguments above. The studies cited in the article are obsolete. The assumptions they rely upon have been later refuted (see refs. 1-3 above). Our personal opinions about their findings are irrelevant. ליאור (talk) 08:13, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Do the studies you have listed specifically refute the findings about the Beta Israel? Do they even refer to them? If so, please quote them. Also, please review WP:NOR. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The studies I've cited (refs. 1-3) explicitly rebut the methods used in the studies cited in the article Beta Israel, thereby undermining the validity of their findings. These findings are a random outcome of their invalid methods, as supported by the fact that other genetic studies came up with opposing results (refs. 4-6), none of which is cited in the article Beta Israel. It is much more common for later studies to refute a recently practiced scientific method, than for them to target a specific study using this method.

May I remind you of the following excerpt from WP:FRINGE: "It is important that original hypotheses that have gone through peer review do not get presented in Wikipedia as representing scientific consensus or fact. Articles about fringe theories sourced solely from a single primary source (even when it is peer reviewed) may be excluded from Wikipedia on notability grounds. Likewise, exceptional claims in Wikipedia require high-quality reliable sources, and, with clear editorial consensus, unreliable sources for exceptional claims may be rejected due to a lack of quality (see WP:REDFLAG)."

In our case, a selective citation of three preliminary studies based on methods that were later refuted, none of which cited by any scientific review article, is no good way to reflect the present scientific concensus. Shabbat shalom, ליאור (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Did the articles you cited refer explicitly to the studies cited in this article? I thought not. Please review WP:NOR. also, the studies cited in this article are all peer-reviewed, reliable sources. Please provide sources which state they are not. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:28, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I've been writing in Wikipedia for a few years now, so I'm pretty much familiar with its policies. We just finished a new article about the Origin of Beta Israel at the Hebrew Wikipedia, I'll be happy to hear your comments about its genetic section. It doesn't cite all the sources I provided in this discussion, but I think we could use it to improve the English article. Best, ליאור (talk) 10:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Due to this edit, may I clarify that the genetic section has to be updated according to the following studies: [8],[9],[10],[11],[12]. There are probably other relevant studies as well. ליאור • Lior (talk) 22:19, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I would just like to say that after reading the DNA Evidence section and the accompanying disclaimer I checked out some of the links in the disclaimer. The degree to which they actually support the claim is questionable at best, and in at least one case a study is referenced which has nothing to do with the claim in question: "The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms." There is also a link to a study called "Absence of HIV-Associated Nephropathy in Ethiopians," which only makes a passing comparison between Ethiopians (in general, not even Ethiopian Jews specifically) and non-Ethiopian Jews in rates of HIV associated nephropathy and says that it may be due to genetic similarities. This does not constitute evidence of genetic similarities, it is merely a hypothesis. The nature of these links calls into question the neutrality of their poster. --donmanguno —Preceding undated comment added 14:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC).

The first study you have mentioned presents results of several genetic studies conducted on various Jewish communities, including Ethiopian Jews. The X-chromosomal data presented in figure 3 of that article shows that Jewish Ethiopian subjects are closer to all the other Jewish subjects than to non-Jewish Ethiopian subjects. Other genetic markers show differing results, which is exactly the point: The genetic section in Wikipedia is much more conclusive than the present scientific literature it's supposed to be based on.

The second study you have mentioned shows that [disease] that is highly prevalent among people of African descent is totally absent among Ethiopians. Along with a follow-up study that traces down the genetic source for this disease, this study supports the findings of the other studies concerning recent human migrations between The Levant and the Horn of Africa.

Since the results of all those genetic studies are both preliminary and inconclusive, it would be best to remove this section altogether until a review article is published on this topic. Otherwise, there is nothing neutral about citing the articles published until 2002 and ignoring those published eversince. ליאור • Lior (talk) 21:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Lior cites [13], [14], and [15], claiming that they invalidate the results of the genetic studies cited in the article. That's not true. The first paper cited by Lior is about sample sizes needed when searching for genetic variants associated with cancer in different populations. It has no implications for ancestry research. The second paper does not claim to invalidate any methods used to investigate genetic distance. The third paper confirms the validity of Cavalli-Szorfa's methods used to study population structure. None of them invalidate the results of any of the studies cited in the article.--Victor Chmara (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Misrepresented Rabbinical views

The reference given to Rabbi Moshe Feinstein's view of Beta Israel does not support the assertion cited in the article body. Please provide an alternative reference, preferably not from a 1985 Jerusalem Post article none of us has read. Thanks, ליאור (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

In what way do you think it does not support the assertion? Please be specific. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

The Torah also called the Old Testament of the Judeo-Christian Bible clearly states that Moses (Moshe) was married to an Ethiopian woman (Tzipporah) with whom he had children. Therefore there were Black Jews from the time of Moses. Probably these Beta Israel are descendants of these Jews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abibi8 (talk • contribs) 06:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

In the Hebrew, the book of Numbers, chapter 12, does not say "Ethiopian", it says "Kushi". In fact, there is no word that sounds like "Ethiopia" in the entire Hebrew Tanakh. It only says "Ethiopia" in modern non-hebrew translations, such as English, etc. The term "Ethiopia" comes from a Greek racial slur meaning "burnt-face",(basically it was the Alexandrian way to say "Darkie", used by the Greeks to refer to ANY Africans, ever since they first saw Africans). In Tanakh the Hebrew term is always related to the root word "Kush". It reminiscent of disputes such as "Israel" vs "Palestine" or "Mitzraim" vs "Egypt", etc, in other words, the preferred name all depends on whom is speaking to who. In our opinion, Abyssinia's non-Jews are the descendants of the Midianites and therefore are the real Ishmaelites, not the Arabs. In which case your view, Abibi8, is not so "out of sync" with our view. However, unlike a New York based cult called "Black Hebrew Israelites" which are not genetically Hebrew or Israelite, we Bete Yisrael do not believe that the "original Jews" were black. In fact the Tanakh says that they had reddish-skin color, (or "ruddy", as the English translations would say, which makes a rather good basis for holding the red-Jews view). Our darker skin color came from interbreeding as did the so-called white Jews. Neither ones look much like the "originals"). My point being that Numbers does not name the wife in question, if it was Zapporah or another wife,(Torah does not say Moshe had only one wife as many higher ranking Hebrews had more than one), and if it was Zapporah, Torah says she was a Midianite and the daughter of Jethro, the Midianite priest who was also a retired king. Yes, she may have been both, a Midianite aka a Kushite, which may be further grounds upon which to believe that today's "Ethiopian's" are descended from the Midianites, aka the real Ishmalites. [Menilek] ጥሩ ምኒልክ (ራስነቢይ የ ቤት ዪሥራእል / አበምኔት ቢሥርዓት ናዝረታዊ) 12:20, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Zapporah is not the cushtic women which the bible talk about. the first woman of moses is a cushtic princess (from Kingdom of Kush the real ancient Ethiopia) called Tharbis When he was the ruler of kush, Zapporah (the Midianite) wes the second women. beta israel believe That the Jews that arrived to Ethiopia (kush and then to Abyssinia) were white. 79.182.124.79 (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Beta Israel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

*Extremely thorough coverage of topic.

The History section is unusually long. It would probably be beneficial to break this into subtopics, to aid reader comprehension.
A very good start on using inline links, Harvard referencing or Cite.php footnotes. However, long stretches of text are not cited. This is a meaningful flaw.
--Ling.Nut 04:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:04, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

[1] Ein-Dor L, Zuk O, Domany E., Thousands of samples are needed to generate a robust gene list for predicting outcome in cancer, PNAS 103, 5923-5928 (2006)

[2] Tanay A, Siggia ED., Sequence context affects the rate of short insertions and deletions in flies and primates, Genome Biol. 2008;9(2):R37

[3] Patterson N, Price AL, Reich D., Population Structure and Eigenanalysis, PLoS Genet. 2006 Dec 22;2(12):e190 PMID 17194218

[4] Lovell A, Moreau C, Yotova V, Xiao F, Bourgeois S, Gehl D, Bertranpetit J, Schurr E, Labuda D., Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and western Eurasia, Ann Hum Genet. 2005 May;69(Pt 3):275-87. PMID 15845032

[5] ttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1182266

[6] ttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1182106

[7] Kahn SM, The multiple meanings of Jewish genes, Cult Med Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;29(2):179-92, PMID 16249949

[8] Parfitt T, Egorova Y., Genetics, history, and identity: the case of the Bene Israel and the Lemba, Cult Med Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;29(2):193-224 PMID 16249950

[9] Steven Kaplan, Can the Ethiopian change his skin? The Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) and racial discourse., African Affairs 98:535-550 (1999)

[10] Raphael Falk, Zionism and the Biology of the Jews, Ressler, Tel Aviv 2006

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]