Talk:Battle of Sievierodonetsk (2022)

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Ukraine Low‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Russia: Military Low‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.

Military history: Russian & Soviet

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 25, 2023.

Dansk oversætelse?

Ovesæt i dansk og tysk 213.237.71.128 (talk) 16:20, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You might have to get someone to translate this article into Danish Wikipedia. MarioJump83 (talk) 06:10, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for the article!.

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 01:26, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lysychansk

Some have said that Lysychansk is separate from the battle. However, Lysychansk is the twin city and is being attacked simultaneously with Sievierodonetsk. Additionally, the infobox states Lysychansk as being a part of the battle 67.175.216.62 (talk) 02:10, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source that the battle is over?

The article say that the battle has ended today but has provided no source.

Can someone please provide a source if it's true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sneedku (talk • contribs) 21:21, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah,just because the city is destroyed doesnt mean its captured.178.221.238.2 (talk) 22:09, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The edit declaring a Russian victory seems to have been a mistake or some kind of trolling. (Update: seems like the claim about a Russian victory stemmed from Kadyrov, meaning that it is a propaganda lie.) Applodion (talk) 22:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Thelisteninghand: While your addition was well-meaning, Kadyrov's claims are completely worthless. Just today he claimed that Russia would also attack Poland, and he proclaimed victory in several battles over the past months, including in clashes which did not happen at all. There is no reason to include his wild claims only for them to be denied by everyone else. Applodion (talk) 22:20, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - Yes I get that - interesting that Tass publish him. My only argument would be that information wars at this moment are part of the battle. Cheers Thelisteninghand (talk) 23:03, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Usually, I would agree that statements by high-ranking leaders like Kadyrov are worthy of inclusion in battle articles, but Kadyrov's statements are so often completely untrue that they seem to be no longer worthy of inclusion. This will probably not be the first time he declares victory in this battle. Applodion (talk) 12:14, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A source:☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 12:27, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May 29, 2022
1:23 PM GMT+3
Last Updated 33 min ago

Max Hunder and Natalia Zinets. Ukrainian defenders hold out in Donbas city under heavy fire

Request for edit

The article states that “Chechen Kadyrovites captured a hotel in the northern city,” the syntax could be improved here, it should be changed to either “in the north of the city,” or “in the northern part of the city,” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:928:5301:65CE:391F:38F6:5AF2 (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Situation

It appears that Russian troops have reached the city centre: https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1531367733098594308?s=20&t=5xvrbQ2p9xP-BnOovrMY_A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.36.53.30 (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Situation update

The Ukrainian Governor of Luhansk oblast Serhey Haidai told Sky News in the last hour that Russia now controls 70% of Sievierodonetsk but that the town is not surrounded 18:47, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Situation?

^[1]Head of Luhansk regional administration: situation in Sieverodonetsk a bit worsen, Ukrainian defense forces holding ground at Industrial zone - Situation as per UA map. It says that the "Ukrainian defense forces holding ground at Industrial zone" indicating that the Russians control the majority of the city but on the map they only control 50% of the city. Can anyone confirm that the Russians have taken control over the majority of the city (or advanced further)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.132.14.97 (talk) 08:50, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zelensky says Severodonetsk and Lisichansk are "dead cities". .usarnamechoice (talk) 02:55, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There has been some reports of the Ukrainians retreating to Azot chemical plant and that the russians are controlling majority of the city - cannot confirm it though SoleszHU (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lugansk governor says today that ukr army was pushed by rus to the outskirts of the city. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/jun/08/russia-ukraine-war-latest-zelenskiy-vows-to-retake-territory-more-than-1000-ukrainian-prisoners-of-war-sent-to-russia-moscow-says-live DrYisus (talk) 16:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/6-june-head-of-luhansk-regional-administration-situation

Need to revamp article

It's literally a timeline article. PilotSheng (talk) 18:01, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's also half-written by ISW. Better sources should be found. 2601:85:C101:C9D0:CC5A:77E8:8A46:1514 (talk) 17:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Battle of Lysychansk into Battle of Sievierodonetsk (2022)

Closing this discussion by WP:SNOW with all participating editors, except one hold-out, stating that these are two separate battles at different times and at different places. The single hold-out has no support and close is by WP:SNOW. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:04, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

These are essentially two stages of the same battle, as Lysychansk started the moment Sievierodonetsk ended. I think these pages would make more sense if treated that way.

This is especially since there's only a single sentence in the actual Battle section of the Battle of Lysychansk page - everything else is just background that also applies to the Sievierodonetsk page. This page might grow a lot more in the future, but I believe that would be WP:CRYSTALBALL, and for now it should be merged.

Not sure what title policy says on a situation like this. "Battle of Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk"? HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith (talk) 19:24, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk are different cities. It is like saying the Battle of Bucha and the Battle of Irpin should be merged because they were different stages or phases in the same offensive. The two pages you are referring to should clearly remain separate. CastleFort1 (talk) 20:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Like CastleFort1 has said, they are two different cities and their timelines do not overlap. Russian troops were never fighting in both Lysych. and Siev. at the same time; Russian troops entered Lysych. the same day that they won in S.

They are completely separate battles. The length of the battle page is only that short because the page itself was created only yesterday and a lot of editors haven't found it yet. It'll certainly grow much more, probably to something similar to the length of this article when all's said and done.

Keep separate. PilotSheng (talk) 23:16, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Two different battles. At different times. Different places. Besides, Lysychansk is the final stronghold held by Ukraine, so it's notable in its own right. Also, if that's your logic then why don't we merge the Kherson airport attacks and the Battle of Kherson? Or as they said Irpin and Bucha. Dawsongfg (talk) 04:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support It's the same battle essentially. Bucha and Itpom should so be merged. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:34, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Come on. The battle for Lysychansk is most likely going to start in a few days. We all know this discussion is going to be outdated soon. Wikipedia's bureaucratic processes are not good for this kind of recent stuff. Although for starters, that page should not have even been created yet. The most sensible solution would be to move to draftspace until the actual fighting begins. Super Ψ Dro 21:41, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
according to isw the battle has begun, with fighting taking place in the southern parts of the city already. PilotSheng (talk) 23:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. I think you mean Irpin. 2. One resulted in the Russians winning then retreating and the other resulted in the Russians capturing half of the city then being repelled.

Also if it's the same battle then there should've been fighting already. Also Super not going to lie but by the time we'd decide on a consensus there'd probably be fighting closer (or if lucky, farther) from Lysychansk. Dawsongfg (talk) 04:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Severodonetsk by fact was a semi-siege, because aside of Azot it wasn't controlled by the Ukraine for about a month. Lisichansk so far is semi-pocket. Different nature of battles. --M1911 (talk) 09:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose While part of the same "offensive", they are/were two different "battles". EkoGraf (talk) 14:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The battle of Sievierodonetsk has concluded with a clear outcome. The two cities are not contiguous, separated by a village in a river valley and three blown bridges. Lysychansk was invaded from the south flank, not from Sievierodonetsk. There is no reason currently to merge that article into this one. If later events change that, it can be merged then, but we cannot see it in a WP:crystal ball. —Michael Z. 16:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm pretty sure (this is according to ISW map) that they're advancing from Sievierodonetsk towards Lysychansk. Dawsongfg (talk) 00:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sievierodonesk was a pitched battle, this engagement is mostly a Russian maneuver with some inidcations of a rout by Ukrainian forces.Mr.User200 (talk) 00:19, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Battles have different circumstances CR-1-AB (talk) 05:43, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The map

is still updating even though the battle is over. We need to stop this. 67.175.216.62 (talk) 18:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The map is still updating due to Battle of Lysychansk. I think a separate file can be used instead. MarioJump83 (talk) 06:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://liveuamap.com/en/2022/6-june-head-of-luhansk-regional-administration-situation

[1]