Talk:Banu Kalb

Banu Kalb has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 9, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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Military history: Middle East / Early Muslim

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A fact from Banu Kalb appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 1 February 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Banu Kalb tribe were originally Christians but became Muslims after the Muslim conquest of the Levant?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Banu Kalb.

Wikipedia

Untitled

Could someone, a scholar and expert on the topic, please rewrite this article? I came here to learn what Banu Kalb is and am leaving far more ignorant than I arrived. Based on the way the article is written, Banu Kalb is a family of Yemeni Arabs who lived during the time of Mohamed. Elsewhere Banu Kalb is described as a pre Islamic tribe who lived by agricultural means as opposed to other tribes who were nomadic Arabs. After reading this so-called article I am extremely confused. Also, it seems the article was written by someone for whom English is NOT their first language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎108.190.53.6 (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Coyote?

"The names of Wabara's sons were as follows: Kalb ("dog"), Asad ("lion"), Namir ("tiger"), Dhi'b ("wolf"), Tha'lab ("fox"), Fahd ("lynx"), Dabu' ("hyena"), Dubb ("bear"), Sid ("coyote") and Sirhan ("jackal")."
I suppose some other animal is intended, because coyotes are native to North America and could not be known to these people at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.34.77.130 (talk) 09:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semitic Etymology

HLV: Pact KLV: Core - Heart - Brave - Prevalent - Dog M'KLV: Responsibility - Wife - Female - Mistress

Banu Kalb historic timeline

9th BC Proto-Semitic organic population
7th BC South Semitic and Mesopotamian influence present, but doesn't assimilate
3rd BC Mesopotamian cultural influence is supplanted by a Greco-Syriac cultural influence
1st AD Roman wars on Messianic-Jews, Rabbinic Judaism formed and sues for peace
3rd AD Greco-Syriac Christianity infiltration of the Roman Empire
4th AD Byzantine favored Greco-Syriac populations displace the Rabbanic Jewish populations
5th AD Himyarite elite convert to Judaism in an effort to resist Greco-Syriac Christianity
6th AD Christian Axumites defeat Jewish Himyar
6th AD Christian Ghassanids take over Qahtani leadership and assimilate Kalb
7th AD Arab-Islamic cultural influence replaces the Greco-Syriac cultural influence
8th AD Islamized Kalbids replace the Ghassanids as the leaders of Qahtani tribes in the Levant
10th AD Hamdani and Kalbid form the Ismaili core among the Arabs (in addition to Ketama Berbers and Daylam Iranians)
12th AD Ismaili lose power, Kalbid leaders convert to Sunni & Christian (in Sicily)
21st AD Kalbid affiliation reduced to its organic size in Northern Arabia. Kalebian (talk) 07:35, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of Kalb

@Thisisoh91: per WP:BRD you need to discuss your change here rather than edit war. DeCausa (talk) 14:35, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Banu Kalb/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 09:54, 6 January 2023 (UTC) § Will take this up. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 09:54, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

GA Criteria

GA Criteria:

1
1.a Y

1.b Y
2
2.a Y

2.b Y

2.c Y

2.d Y
3
3.a Y

3.b Y
4
4.a Y
5
5.a Y
6
6.a Y

6.b Y

No DAB links Y
No dead links Y
No missing citations Y

Discussion

Prose Suggestions

Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.

Lede

It seems to me that the various "Kalb was" should be "Kalb were"? But perhaps I am wrong.
the Kalb became a leading component of the Yaman against the Qays suggest the Kalb became a leading component of the Yaman confederation against the Qays
a state which continued under the Iraq-based Abbasid Caliphate given the discussion of countries, state might best be changed to situation or circumstance for clarity

Locations

The Kalb's domination of Wadi Sirhan and al-Jawf well-positioned its tribesmen to migrate northward into Syria somewhat awkward, perhaps The Kalb's domination of Wadi Sirhan and al-Jawf put its tribesmen is a good position to migrate northward into Syria

Genealogy

The Kalb was the largest component in the northern half of the Quda'a's stomping grounds "stomping grounds" seems a tad informal for wikivoice, perhaps traditional areas. or something similar? (Also applies to caption from location section)

Interactions with Muhammad

confrontation was the 627 or 628 expedition against Dumat al-Jandal, suggest changing 627 or 628 to 627/628 since the dates are contiguous.

Alliance with the Qarmatians

Egypt-based Tulunids, who nominally ruled on behalf of the Abbasids. the placement of nominal could be confusing; they nominally ruled Egypt, or did so nominally in the name of the Abbasids? The second is correct IIRC, so perhaps Tulunids, who ruled Egypt, nominally on behalf of the Abbasids.

Relations with the Fatimids

playing a key role in the army of Anushtakin al-Dizbari previously just said Anushtakin and (I don't believe) introduced or linked; I linked to him and added a short intro. Please ensure details are correct. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:15, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Al Ameer son: That is all of my suggestions, passing now. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Iazyges: Thank you for reviewing and passing this nomination. I revised per the good suggestions above. Regards, Al Ameer (talk) 01:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kalbiyya

@Al Ameer son: Nice job improving this article. The modern Alawite tribe Kalbiyya seem to sometimes be referred to as Banu Kalb and I've found non-RS references to them being the last vestiges of the medieval Banu Kalb, but I've not been able to come to a conclusion one way or the other. You haven't referenced them here: have you found any information on that? DeCausa (talk) 22:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks DeCausa. In short, no—but I’m curious. During some earlier, cursory research I could not find any connection or claims of descent, but I’ll look into it further. Al Ameer (talk) 02:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DeCausa: This might be the most we get. From Stefan Winter, History of the Alawis, 2016, p. 99:

Today the Kelbis are frequently cited as one of the four principal ‘Alawi tribal groupings in Syria, but, as already stated, they are never mentioned as such in medieval sources: the Kelbis were not one of the tribes associated with Makzun al-Sinjari, and in the Khayr al-Sani‘a the term appears only a few times, referring specifically in one instance to the coastal region southeast of Latakia (Sahil al-Kalbiyya).23 This is not to suggest that the Kelbi tribe did not exist as a group before (indeed the term may originally have invoked a link with the classical Kelbi bedouin confederation) but that it played no special role within Alawi society before it was discovered and consecrated as the dominant local faction by the Ottoman administration in the sixteenth century.

Al Ameer (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I've added in a reference to that in the Kalbiyya article. DeCausa (talk) 09:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 16:44, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the Banu Kalb tribe were originally Christian but became Muslim after the muslim conquest of the Levant? Source: Shahid, Irfan (1986). Byzantium and the Arabs in the Fourth Century. Washington, D. C.: Dumbarton Oaks Research Library and Collection. ISBN 0-88402-116-5. Page 314 , Caskel, Werner (1966). Ğamharat an-nasab: Das genealogische Werk des His̆ām ibn Muḥammad al-Kalbī, Volume II (in German). Leiden: Brill. OCLC 490272940. page 369.
- ALT1: ... that the Banu Kalb and other tribe's routing of the Qays at the battle of Battle of Marj Rahit intensified the Qays–Yaman rivalry? Source: Kennedy, Hugh N. (2004). The Prophet and the Age of the Caliphates: The Islamic Near East from the 6th to the 11th Century (Second ed.). Harlow: Pearson Education Limited. ISBN 0-582-40525-4. Page 79 ,
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nicole Lloyd-Ronning

Improved to Good Article status by Al Ameer son (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 15:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Recent GA confirmed, so AGF on stuff like copyvio spotcheck, lenght etc. are ok of course. Hooks are neutral and mildly interesting. I do note that the article doesn't use the wording Qays–Yaman rivalry anywhere, although the article is linked from the body, which uses a synonym feud. Not a major issue I think. PS. Note I've copyedited the main hook by capitalizing Christian and Muslim. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]