Talk:Ball Ground, Georgia

Ball Ground, Georgia has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 12, 2022. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Ball Ground, Georgia appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 October 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Ball Ground, Georgia, received its name because the land was originally used by Native Americans to play stickball?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ball Ground, Georgia.

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Removal of recent history addition

@Magnolia677: I wanted to discuss the edit you made and try to work that out, because the fact that Cherokee lived there but were removed and the land given out is an important part of how Ball Ground came to be. Your edit summary says that “none of the sources mention Ball Ground” but I have to disagree. The very first source in that section specifically mentions Ball Ground within the first sentence. The second source does not mention Ball Ground because the Cherokee were removed from the whole county; there's no reason to single out the area of Ball Ground and while it's true that this part is not specifically unique to Ball Ground, it does apply to Ball Ground and more specifically provides context for the next part, which ‘’does’’ discuss Ball Ground, albeit not by name. this source about the land lottery does not mention Ball Ground because it is impossible for it to do so; it is a contemporary source. If you’ll notice it does not mention ‘’any’’ city in what is now Cherokee County, because nothing existed or was named there at the time except for the carved out county names. However the general map on page 16 and the more detailed map on page 66 does describe the land that is now Ball Ground (it’s around grid marker 55). They don’t call it by name because it didn’t have a name, but the source does describe Ball Ground’s lands and how they were distributed via the land lottery, and that context is important for the history of the town. The last source that was removed just verifies the treaty information to give context to the timetable. But there is a source in each of those paragraphs that mentions Ball Ground (or describes the land that will become Ball Ground) so it is cited and relevant to the article, and because of that I think it needs to be reinserted into the article, especially because it makes following sections that use sources that explicitly mention the Cherokee returning to Ball Ground seem without context if the article doesn't mention that they were ever there or that they left. - Aoidh (talk) 23:43, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoidh: Thank you for writing. I missed the reference to "Ball Ground" in the first source because it was spelled differently. Please add back information about the Battle of Taliwa and any other information specific to Ball Ground. My concern on this and many articles is that information added is too broad and not specific to the city, and would be more appropriate on an article about the county. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 07:48, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for getting back with me. I'm assuming you have no objection to the second paragraph that discusses the land lottery since the source does describe Ball Ground without actually using the words "Ball Ground", so based on that assumption I'm going to re-add both paragraphs, but I'll tweak them a bit and add the source that mentions how the Cherokee later returned to Ball Ground as verification that they were there to leave in the first place, if that makes sense. - Aoidh (talk) 08:27, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:06, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ball Ground, Georgia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 21:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Links

Prose

Lede

No need to link United States. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First two sentences start "Ball Ground". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Might need a link as to what a "Cherokee" is. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Within the last 20 years - this sentence is likely to be dated, use definitive dates. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
three times its 2000 population of 730. three time the population in 2000 - 730. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I did reword it slightly - Aoidh (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

General

Before incorporation as a town is a pretty poor heading title. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I browsed other city GAs and borrowed the heading "Early history and settlement" from Everett, Washington. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
what is now - we try to avoid saying things that can become dated - see WP:CURRENT Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
North Georgia.[9] [10] - stray space. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The current thing I linked before happens multiple times in the article. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I read through the article again and I believe I addressed all of those instances. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Originally the name Ball Ground referred to the area around what is now the city and was not the name for any town or community.[11] The area around what is now the city was named Ball Ground by the settlers - very wordy for The name "Ball Ground" was named by settlers for an area of land, not for the town or community. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I reworded your suggestion slightly. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of the time you start sentences with "in X year". These need a comma afterwards and also should watch out for WP:PROSELINE Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:54, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I tried to change the wording up as best as I could and added the commas. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Only need to link items the first use. There's a few duplinks about. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Decline and growth - bit of an oxymoron. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Changed section header to "Revitalization". - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A television documentary - this probably needs to say whom from. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Added "on North Georgia's Channel 11" I can't wikilink a specific channel because whatever Channel 11 referred to in 1971 apparently no longer exists and Channel 11 branded TV stations in the United States is similarly blank for Atlanta/North Georgia. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of demographics is uncited. At least a source at the end of the paragraph is needed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"110 males.\" - typo? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Stray \ removed. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
median income for a household in the city was $81,900, and the median income for a family was $92,690. - maybe it's just cause I'm a maths geek, but a median isn't always the best measure of an average. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: For better or worse, median is the only average provided by the Census data for these; see the recently promoted Everett, Washington for example. Median is used because it's what the census data provides. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Demographics has a graph of previous census results, but the prose doesn't mention them at all. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done It was originally in the (now renamed) Decline and growth section but I moved it to demographics. Rather than just listing each decade in prose I tried to touch on the more relevant dates in a manner similar to other city GAs. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No need to link measurements on every use. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
opened in 2017.[citation needed] - can we fix this tag? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done That was a leftover from before the article was expanded and was superseded by the sentence that followed it; I forgot to remove that sentence. - Aoidh (talk) 21:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Review meta comments

I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: Thank you for reviewing this. With the exception of the median data provided by the US Census, I have addressed all of the issues above. Please let me know if anything else is needed. - Aoidh (talk) 21:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by RoySmith (talk) 14:12, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Ball Ground, Georgia, got its name because the land was originally used by Native Americans to play stickball? Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/109841300/1885-account-of-origins/ Quote: "Ball Ground derives its name from the fact that at that place occurred annually the athletic contests of the Indians ...none was more enjoyed than the primitive 'ball' ..." That it was specifically "stick ball" is verified in https://web.archive.org/web/20211129225951/https://cherokeechamber.com/our-community/life-in-cherokee/communities/
- ALT1: ... that the Cherokee that originally inhabited the land were formally invited back to Ball Ground, Georgia, in 1972 to play stickball, the game that the city derived its name from? Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/109978010/cherokee-return-to-ball-ground/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Seven Days (magazine)

Improved to Good Article status by Aoidh (talk). Self-nominated at 21:49, 12 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Aoidh: Great article. Though for hook one i'd propose ... that Ball Ground, Georgia was named what it is because the land was originally used by Native Americans to play stickball? or something like that because just saying "was named" seems like a grammar mistake. I'm not too sure though so i'm waiting on your approval. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:46, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: I was trying to figure out how best to word that so I'm more than open to suggestions. What about ..."that Ball Ground, Georgia was so named because the land..."? - Aoidh (talk) 22:49, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoidh: Maybe we could do ... that Ball Ground, Georgia got its name because the land... Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:52, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: That works for me, I've updated the first hook accordingly, thanks. - Aoidh (talk) 22:56, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoidh:

Alright then, I approve the nomination. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:57, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

USA Georgia location map.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gibbs Gardens?

Why is Gibbs Gardens mentioned as being inside the city? Anyone looking at a map can tell it is quite a distance from the incorporated city limits. It may be within the USPS ZIP Code area (30107), but that ZIP covers quite a large part of the county, well outside of the city. — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 09:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because we use what reliable sources to determine content, and reliable sources (example) describe it as being in Ball Ground. - Aoidh (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent changes

@TadgStirkland401: I've reverted the formatting changes introduced, as per MOS:VAR the formatting style should not be changed to another formatting (in this case the line breaks after each parameter and moving infobox citations to the end) if it is used consistently in an article, as it is here. The changes to the lede are less concise and are not an improvement, wikilinking things like United States is a MOS:OVERLINK concern, and while the names of additional city officials like city manage is and should be discussed in the government section for US cities, that level of governing does not need to go into the infobox. - Aoidh (talk) 20:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aoidh… What can I say? I tried… Did you also revert the obvious grammar errors I fixed? — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 21:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Motto(s)

The infobox contains a motto(s) entry with a citation to the official Ball Ground website. It states the motto as “Where we roll out the red carpet, not the red tape". I have searched the site and the motto is not mentioned anywhere. Should this reference be removed? — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 01:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It probably should be removed or updated. The website did previously show this at the top up until around 2021, but it looks like that changed to Historic Past − Bright Future some time in the last couple of years. - Aoidh (talk) 05:59, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]