Talk:Bagna càuda

Origin

"Bagna Cauda" is from Provence not Piemont. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=22658823855&topic=14417. Yvanroylondon (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Prove it with a link that works. ICE77 (talk) 05:18, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

http://www.regione.piemonte.it/archivio/internazionale/ris_online/s_tecniche/dwd/Educational%20-%20Turismo%20Ottobre/cartella%20stampa/italiano/07bagnacaoda.pdf 176.180.149.189 (talk)

Bagna càuda in Argentina

"Bagna Cauda" is also very popular in Argentina where it is known with the name of "Bañacauda". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.54.140.198 (talk • contribs).

Yes, but that is a misspelling. If I went to an Argentine restaurant serving "bañacauda" and not Bagna Cáuda, I'd be, at the least, a bit wary.

Argentina should be mentioned. --Little bishop (talk) 21:33, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Proper translation

I changed the translation from "hot bath" to "hot sauce". Trust me, I come from there! :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.18.201.174 (talk • contribs).

Well, we have a problem then, because "bagna" is clearly etymologically related to "bagno", with only a gender flip making the difference. I think I will add a note to that effect. Haikupoet 19:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

If I may help, I'm Italian and Piedmontese. Piedmontese bagna means sauce. Italian bagno means bath or bathroom. But both verbs Piedm. bagné and It. bagnare mean to dip, sprinkle, wet. All these words derive from the common Latin root BALN- which means wet. As a matter of fact, sauces are usually wet, and so are bathrooms... ;) --213.140.17.108 (talk) 00:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Do you have an etymological dictionary you can cite? Haikupoet (talk) 17:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Lo Zingarelli 2008, confirms 85.18.201.174’s very clear description, give or take the odd accent. Paraphrasing three etymologies from there:

s.v. ‘bagnacauda’: from the Piedmontese words bàgna (‘intingolo’, sauce) and càuda (‘calda’, hot) 1831.

s.v. ‘bagna’: northern Italian from bagnè (‘bagnare’) 1887.

s.v. ‘bagnare’: from Latin bǎlneum (‘bagno’ in the sense immersion of something in a liquid).

Finally, s.v. ‘bagno’ derives from Latin bǎlneu[m] from the Greek bǎlneion, of unknown origin.

But I am not sure that we need much of this in the article: more something for wiktionary, perhaps. Ian Spackman (talk) 07:16, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The Babylon 5 reference

This wasn't so much comic relief as much as to show how important family traditions, especially with food keep us connected to our point of origin.Jim Gauthier 12:43, 13 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbeast (talk • contribs)

Personally, I agree with your assessment. The humor was secondary in the episode's B story. I find your comment exceedingly insightful, thanks. Yours is the main point of what was portrayed. If we can get some literary analysis of insightful TV shows on Wikipedia, the universe would explode. I note most of this has already been deleted from the Babylon 5 episode articles as being "trivia". (Note the guideline never says, "Zap all trivia".) Re-adding it is challenging: I added the Yeats poem to "Revelations (Babylon 5)"; I'm still waiting for it to get zapped on the premise, "It's about space ships going boom, not about poetry". —Aladdin Sane (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Garibaldi's ultimate reason for making the dish was family tradition, but the cloak-and-dagger antics he used to try to get the ingredients past Franklin without notice were definitely comical (and intended that way). 164.55.254.106 (talk) 22:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

How come do we have an Italian etymology for a non Italian word? --46.25.48.186 (talk) 15:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Are you objecting to the use of the Zingarelli for the etymology? We often use dictionaries in one language (e.g., the OED) to document etymologies in other languages. --Macrakis (talk) 18:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm objecting explaining what "bagna" means in Italian, when it's not an Italian word and means something else. --46.25.48.186 (talk) 13:53, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Bagna means sauce and it's Piedmontese79.20.213.31 (talk) 18:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Origin

Provence was part of Piedmonte state until 1860 and bagna cauda is different from the Provence dish of anchovies 79.41.217.183 (talk) 16:03, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Origin

https://www.regione.piemonte.it/web/sites/default/files/media/documenti/2020-12/dicembre_2020.pdf Here it says it's Piedmontese Also the first recipe Provençal appear in 1800/1900 80.180.105.109 (talk) 19:17, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Eduadoros: read this source. JacktheBrown (talk) 13:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Provence (solved)

Hello @JackkBrown. Why do you revert my changes?

I added good sources, one from the Governo regione Piemonte and two books. It is clearly explained that the dish is originally from Provence and that it arrived to Piemonte later (it makes sense, Piemonte has no access to sea). Nowadays the dish can be found in both territory and if you prefer we can let both regions in the infobox. Eduadoros (talk) 09:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

In the site of Regione Piemonte, they explain how the dish came from Provence to Piedmont: https://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/index2.php?url=http://www.regione.piemonte.it/archivio/internazionale/ris_online/s_tecniche/dwd/Educational%2520-%2520Turismo%2520Ottobre/cartella%2520stampa/italiano/07bagnacaoda.pdf/index.html#federation=archive.wikiwix.com&tab=url

This is why I included it in the article. Eduadoros (talk) 09:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

The dish is part of the traditional cuisine of Provence, especially the city of Nice:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Petit_Magist%C3%A8re_de_Cuisine_Occitane/HIRqEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=bagna+cauda+occitan&pg=PA301&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Les_soleils_de_la_cuisine/5XH_EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22bagna+caudo%22&pg=PA47&printsec=frontcover

it is also part of Piedmont tradition for sure, and that is why I think both regions should be included. Moreover, Piedmont and Nice county were part of the same region called Duchy of Savoy in the time of the creation of this dish.

Many sources explain as the dish is originated from Provence and reached Piedmont by the "route of the salt":

https://www.historiaregni.it/curiosita-culinarie-piemontesi/

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ni%C3%A7oise_Market_Inspired_Cooking_from_Fr/2QjHEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=bagna+cauda+nicoise&pg=PT450&printsec=frontcover

https://langhe.net/162299/la-bagna-cauda-il-profilo-storico-tra-medioevo-e-provenza/

https://www.torinotoday.it/cronaca/bagna-cauda-famosa-mondo-spazio-torinese.html

This part of the history could be more detailed in the article. Eduadoros (talk) 11:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

I would put Provence as the only origin, but as you can see, I restored a neutral version of the article in which we can read that the dish is part of Piedmontese and Provenzal cultures. I hope you agree with that. Eduadoros (talk) 11:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

@Eduadoros: with great difficulty, I decided to find an agreement with you (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bagna_c%C3%A0uda&diff=prev&oldid=1225982074), but the French name isn't necessary; I hope you will also agree with this solution, without deleting or modifying my changes, otherwise nothing will be resolved and I will continue to disagree with you. JacktheBrown (talk) 22:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Dear @JackkBrown,

You say you agree but you removed Provence from the infobox. Yes, Nice (but not all Provence) was part of the Duchy of Savoy, but Piedmont too. Then you should remove Piedmont too, or let both regions.

You also removed the name, but it is not a French name as you said but an occitan name used in Provence, I think it is relevant to include the local names associated with the two regions considered. Eduadoros (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

@Eduadoros: important: French sources aren't reliable in this case, because they're obviously very biased. JacktheBrown (talk) 01:23, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Why would they be more biased than others? Eduadoros (talk) 16:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

@Eduadoros: only in this case. It's logical: Italian sources are unlikely to claim that the dish originated in Provence, and French sources are unlikely to claim that the dish originated in the Lower Piedmont; the solution is to include both Piedmont (Lower Piedmont) and Provence, and that's what we wisely did. JacktheBrown (talk) 16:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

@Eduadoros: furthermore, I left "France" here: See also, and here: References, and added the redirect to Provençal cuisine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bagna_c%C3%A0uda&diff=prev&oldid=1226094566), which I will remove if you go against me again. Remember: "I hope you will also agree with this solution, without deleting or modifying my changes, otherwise nothing will be resolved and I will continue to disagree with you.". JacktheBrown (talk) 14:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Dear @JackkBrown

Thank you for your response.

I would like to kindly ask you to write in a more polite way. I feel a bit of aggressiveness in your tone which is discouraging me from further engaging in this conversation.

In particular, your remark about the French source being biased comes across as discriminatory and, in my view, inappropriate.

I would like to include a sentence about the dish originating in Provence and being introduced to Piedmont via the salt trade route. What are your thoughts on this? Referring to a reliable source from Regione Piemonte: https://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/index2.php?url=http://www.regione.piemonte.it/archivio/internazionale/ris_online/s_tecniche/dwd/Educational%2520-%2520Turismo%2520Ottobre/cartella%2520stampa/italiano/07bagnacaoda.pdf/index.html#federation=archive.wikiwix.com&tab=url Eduadoros (talk) 16:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)

@Eduadoros: I will keep your changes; now, thinking more neutrally, they seem correct to me, and excuse my somewhat authoritarian manner. However, we can still discuss it. JacktheBrown (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much @JackkBrown, I would be glad to continue our discussion. Eduadoros (talk) 09:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of Xiaomichel, see investigation)