Talk:Automotive textile

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Automobiles Low‑importance

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Materials Low‑importance

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Bicycle textiles

Will this be next? What about Locomotive textiles? Submarine textiles? Ocean Liner Textiles, Alternative Textiles. The world has gone crazy, and nobody cares, much. -Roxy . wooF 21:54, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. Fringe Textiles geddit? -Roxy . wooF 21:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Roxy the dog Oxymoron is a figure of speech that juxtaposes concepts with opposing meanings within a word or phrase that creates an ostensible self-contradiction. An oxymoron can be used as a rhetorical device to illustrate a rhetorical point or to reveal a paradox. When we have articles on Seat belt, Tire, Steering, Airbag, Car seat,Trunk (car), Headliner. Hence Automotive textiles is not a bad choice. But thanks for your sarcastic ideas.

Something obvious to you, may not be to someone else WP:RF RV (talk) 07:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do think the scope has to be managed as aircraft fabrics would be out of scope, (balloons and parachutes) although could be similar in tech. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and I would also query whether carbon-fiber-reinforced polymers are textiles. Brunton (talk) 06:55, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@ Brunton Polymers can be transformed into a variety of different forms, including textiles. RV (talk) 12:15, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the cited source is quite explicit that these particular polymers are not being transformed into textiles. Brunton (talk) 12:26, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so, See the heading itself states Knitting and baking the cars of the future RV (talk) 12:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read the article, not just the headline. Brunton (talk) 13:07, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You mean they BBC have wrong heading. What about this "All the lingo in carbon fibre is based on textiles," grins Mr Swanton. And like the cotton mills of the past, SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers' newly built factory in Moses Lake, Washington State, could deliver an industrial revolution of its own. These are not typical textiles. The fabrics from carbon are used in composite materials also. In all this they pass through the stages of textile manufacturing RV (talk) 13:40, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

”Lingo” means terminology; it doesn’t mean that carbon fibre is always a textile, just that the terms they use are derived from the ones used for textiles. Brunton (talk) 22:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So you mean Mr. Swanton used wrong terminology. I am trying to tell you that it undergoes the stages of textile manufacturing. Their product is not a textile. But the question is not about their product. You asked about the use of CFRP. And i am maintaining that CFRP can be used in textiles too. For example, Carbon woven fabrics.^[1]^[2]

The primary element of carbon-fiber-reinforced polymers is a carbon filament; this is produced from a precursor polymer such as polyacrylonitrile (PAN), rayon, or petroleum pitch. For synthetic polymers such as PAN or rayon, the precursor is first spun into filament yarns, using chemical and mechanical processes to initially align the polymer chains in a way to enhance the final physical properties of the completed carbon fiber. Precursor compositions and mechanical processes used during spinning filament yarns may vary among manufacturers. After drawing or spinning, the polymer filament yarns are then heated to drive off non-carbon atoms (carbonization), producing the final carbon fiber. The carbon fibers filament yarns may be further treated to improve handling qualities, then wound on to bobbins.^[3]. Carbon fiber yarn is rated by the linear density (weight per unit length; i.e., 1 g/1000 m = 1 tex) or by number of filaments per yarn count, in thousands. For example, 200 tex for 3,000 filaments of carbon fiber is three times as strong as 1,000 carbon filament yarn, but is also three times as heavy. This thread can then be used to weave a carbon fiber filament fabric or cloth. The appearance of this fabric generally depends on the linear density of the yarn and the weave chosen. Some commonly used types of weave are twill, satin and plain. Carbon filament yarns can also be knitted or braided. RV (talk) 01:29, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Lomov, Stepan V.; Gorbatikh, Larissa; Kotanjac, Željko; Koissin, Vitaly; Houlle, Matthieu; Rochez, Olivier; Karahan, Mehmet; Mezzo, Luca; Verpoest, Ignaas (February 2011). "Compressibility of carbon woven fabrics with carbon nanotubes/nanofibres grown on the fibres". Composites Science and Technology. 71 (3): 315–325. doi:10.1016/j.compscitech.2010.11.024.
^ Hans, Kreis (2 July 2014). "Carbon woven fabrics". compositesplaza.com. Archived from the original on 2 July 2018. Retrieved 2 January 2018.
^ "How is it Made". Zoltek. Archived from the original on 19 March 2015. Retrieved 26 March 2015.

No, I am not saying that Mr Swanton was using the wrong terminology, I was saying that the fact that the terminology used to describe carbon fibre derived from textile sources does not mean that all applications of carbon fibre are textiles. You say, “Their product is not a textile”, and yet you are using their product as an example of textile use in cars. Do you see the problem? Brunton (talk) 09:54, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See the text says Carbon-fiber-reinforced polymers are being explored for lightweight car bodies which are fuel-efficient and sustainable.^[1]. Tell me where is the gap? RV (talk) 13:03, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The gap is between the topic and the content. The topic is automotive textiles. Things that are not used in automobiles, such as hot air balloons and parachutes, are out of scope even if they happen to be made of textiles, and things that, as you put it, are “not a textile” are also outside the scope of the article even if they happen to be used in automobiles. Brunton (talk) 20:57, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article now has a broader scope than before. You can help in adding Locomotive textiles, Submarine textiles, Ocean Liner Textiles, and Alternative Textiles. RV (talk) 03:20, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If its scope includes products that are “not a textile” then it needs to be renamed to something like “automotive materials”. Brunton (talk) 08:46, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consult someone if the fibers and yarns belong to textiles or not. RV (talk) 11:58, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I did, and you said that this particular example is not a textile. Brunton (talk) 12:25, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What ? RV (talk) 12:31, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

”Their product is not a textile.” The product in question being the one being used to make lightweight car bodies, according to the cited source. Brunton (talk) 13:01, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So you are picking up bits and pieces. Here is the complete sentence.product is not a textile. But the question is not about their product. You asked about the use of CFRP. And i am maintaining that CFRP can be used in textiles too. For example, Carbon woven fabrics. RV (talk) 13:36, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to use this particular product as an example of textile use, then the question is not, “can CFRP be used in textiles”, it is “is this particular product a textile?” Since it isn’t, it can’t be used as an example of textile use. Brunton (talk) 13:42, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You mean your question was incorrect in the first place. To clarify, the article is about automotive textiles, and any textile usage will be covered as an example. Even the reinforcement threads on the tires. RV (talk) 13:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication of content

I’ve been doing some copyediting and removal of redundancy in the “Material and performance parameters” section, but have now realised that much of the content is duplicated in the “Use” section. These need to be either more clearly differentiated or merged. Brunton (talk) 11:36, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The "Material and performance parameters" section describes the different materials which are applicable in other areas also. And the "Use" section explains characteristics to use in specific areas with the necessary application materials. Hence already differentiated RV (talk) 11:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge them, no problem. -Roxy . wooF 18:01, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you consider it a consensus? Stop doing this drama. Hey, you (and yourself^[2]) After so many fallacies Bolt (cloth)[[1]], Ninon[[2]], slopseller [[3]] and Khes and Kesh episode [[4]], [[5]], [[6]], do you still think that you have a say? stop trying to do stuff about which you clearly have such a low level of understanding.(as you said)Your nonsense regarding (Mobiltech, Mobiltex) RV (talk) 02:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Knitting and baking the cars of the future". BBC News. 2012-12-23. Retrieved 2021-06-15.
^ "User talk:Brunton", Wikipedia, 2021-06-09, retrieved 2021-06-22

Fringe Textiles

Composite materials that include textiles have always been regarded by the textile industry as textiles, though I appreciate that they don't behave as textiles in the end product. The discussion I see on this page regarding the engineering use of textile materials, (I believe Carbon Fibre is used in bicycle bits and Bugattis) relates far more to Materials Science and engineering rather than to textiles. In GRP and CFRP the textile elements are there to impart tensile strength and little else, so the performance aspects of the materials are an engineering concern rather than textile science. I hope this provides food for thought. -Roxy . wooF 18:15, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Who gives a damn about your beliefs Wikipedia:Opinions are like arseholes? RV (talk) 02:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Lomov, Stepan V.; Gorbatikh, Larissa; Kotanjac, Željko; Koissin, Vitaly; Houlle, Matthieu; Rochez, Olivier; Karahan, Mehmet; Mezzo, Luca; Verpoest, Ignaas (February 2011). "Compressibility of carbon woven fabrics with carbon nanotubes/nanofibres grown on the fibres". Composites Science and Technology. 71 (3): 315–325. doi:10.1016/j.compscitech.2010.11.024.

[2] Hans, Kreis (2 July 2014). "Carbon woven fabrics". compositesplaza.com. Archived from the original on 2 July 2018. Retrieved 2 January 2018.

[3] "How is it Made". Zoltek. Archived from the original on 19 March 2015. Retrieved 26 March 2015.

[4] "Knitting and baking the cars of the future". BBC News. 2012-12-23. Retrieved 2021-06-15.

[5] "User talk:Brunton", Wikipedia, 2021-06-09, retrieved 2021-06-22

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