Talk:Auster Aircraft

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On 10 May 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Auster to Auster Aircraft. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Requested move 10 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to alternative title Auster Aircraft supported by consensus. (non-admin closure) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Auster → Auster Aircraft Limited
Auster (disambiguation) → Auster

– There are ten entries listed upon the Auster (disambiguation) page, including a list of six people under Auster (surname). When "Auster" is submitted to a search engine, most results go to Paul Auster, not to the airplane manufacturer from eighty years ago. The dab page form is similar to "Ford", which does not redirect to the Ford Motor Company or to famous people, such as Gerald Ford, Henry Ford or John Ford. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 12:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems eminently reasonable, yes, it's unlikely the average reader associates the term so strongly with the company. We could identify 22 clicks on the hatnote last month (WikiNav for Auster), which isn't nominally a lot compared to 1.2k incoming 389 outgoing, but that's mostly the organic traffic for the company that can be assumed to be shifting away quickly after the move. (Support) Interestingly, from there we see 19 clicks on Auster wind (WikiNav for the disambiguation page) which is listed last on the disambiguation page, yet the latter is also mentioned in the hatnote, where we don't detect any such thing. This for me is a further indication of suboptimal navigation layout, and we should experiment with this change even if we're unsure of it. --Joy (talk) 08:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support per views[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The aircraft manufacturer (second most popular by pageviews) is the primary topic by long-term significance, having manufactured the aircraft model Taylorcraft Auster (first most popular by pageviews). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:14, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Shhhnotsoloud these are not actually the first and second most popular because the current phrasing of WP:NAMELIST relegates links to people to a separate list which obfuscates navigation; all-time page views for the first list show these two topics attracting the average interest of 82 and 46 readers per day, resp., while all-time page views for the second list show Paul Auster and Sophie Auster get 561 and 85 readers per day, respectively. Monthly view of these statistics shows these kinds of ratios are fairly reliably present through time, so this shouldn't be a fluke of WP:Recentism. The compendium of knowledge about topics named Auster shouldn't make it such a chore to navigate to this biography of a writer with obvious long-term significance and usage. --Joy (talk) 16:44, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ouch, yes, you're right @Joy:, see [2]. I think we're better off merging Auster (surname) into the disambiguation page (since there are only 6 entries, and nothing substantive about the name) and I support the move. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, thanks. --Joy (talk) 19:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The aircraft manufacture is the clear primary topic by long-term significance, especially among the things known only as Auster. But if it is moved it should just be to Auster Aircraft; the "Limited" is unnecessary per WP:NCCORP. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Necrothesp according to the article, Auster made a significant plane in 1942 with this name, and changed its own name in 1946 to match that, dropping it in 1962. In total that's just 20 years. We ostensibly a lot of articles on various of the Auster plane models, but while some describe many hundreds of planes distributed widely around the world, the production numbers for numerous others are tiny, and for a lot of these it's not at all clear whether these were significant planes or is this enthusiastic editors collating information of less than stellar relevance based on rather specialist sources.

Even if we weigh Paul Auster with a significantly smaller factor because it's just a surname, that article says he was active 1974–2023 which is 49 years, and lists numerous awards from a variety of locations. There's certainly also links to bad articles about less notable books, but a lot still seem to link to reviews in the general press, and mention adaptations in other media indicating continuing influence.

There's going to be an obvious bias towards topics of general interest which naturally attract a more general coverage and audience, but still, if the coverage of a single person's work already plenty comparable, let alone the long tail, it's hard to escape the impression that the manufacturer's renown under this name can't really overshadow the renown of all other topics named Auster for the average English reader, who is neither an airplane enthusiast nor a book enthusiast. --Joy (talk) 14:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. As the nominator, I agree with Necrothesp that if consensus coalesces around the move, the main title header should be Auster → Auster Aircraft. The original nomination — Auster → Auster Aircraft Limited — had been hastily based upon the lede line of the article — "Auster Aircraft Limited was a British aircraft manufacturer from 1938 to 1961." —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.