Talk:Atlanta's John Marshall Law School

Reversed anonymous edits

Comments added by anon editor on March 18 were unsupported opinions of less credibility than the opinions modified.

This article suffers from enough unsupported assertions already.Samatva 09:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Controversy section?

I know controversy sections can be controversial, but I'm trying to feel out the feasibility of adding the info about an accused white supremacist attending the school sourced in [1] and [2]. How does everyone feel about the reliability of these sources? I agree with ElKevbo here that the info probably doesn't merit inclusion in the lead but could in the body. I'll invite my friend AOM831 to propose edits here. delldot ∇. 01:25, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pinging me. As a minor point, I would be adamantly opposed to adding a "Controversy" section to this article. I would instead recommend creating a brief history section (you can recycle the tiny bit of history already in the lede, copying some of it and just moving some it) to avoid having to research this yourself; you could then place the new information in that section. Separate sections dedicated to controversies are not only POV (usually by hiding the controversy at the bottom of the article) but also intellectually dishonest because they separate the controversies from the larger history and context of the subject. ElKevbo (talk) 01:29, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Great idea, that's way better than a controversy section. Thank you! delldot ∇. 04:19, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Okay, here is a proposed "History" section -- not "Controversy" as ElKevbo suggested. Would appreciate feedback:

History (version 1)

AJMLS was founded in 1933. In October 2017, the American Bar Association issued a letter of noncompliance to AJMLS, stating that the school was “significantly out of compliance” with ABA accreditation requirements. [3]

In 2017, AJMLS student Casey Jordan Cooper was exposed as a white nationalist organizer. [4] According to Atlanta Progressive News, Cooper is a member of the Identity Evropa white nationalist group and sent a lynching threat to a Black activist in Atlanta. [5]

In late 2011, AJMLS opened a sister school in Savannah, Georgia, named Savannah Law School. [6] In March 2018, press reports stated that the Savannah Law School would shut down at the end of the Spring 2018 semester. [7] A class action suit on behalf of Savannah Law School students claims that the Savannah school is being closed to financially benefit its parent school, AJMLS. [8]

AOM831 (talk) 21:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I think this looks fine to add, thanks AOM831 for all the work you've put in. It's a little heavy on the negative slanted history but hopefully we flesh this section out a bit. I think the APN and georgiapol sources are acceptable albeit not awesome and we should supplement them with more sources as we find them. What do others think? delldot ∇. 21:57, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I made a bunch of edits and cleaned up the references. How does this look? ElKevbo (talk) 00:38, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the time & thought you put into this. Condensing the white nationalist material into one sentence seems good. I think there are two ways the revised "History" draft could be further improved:

(1) Remove "briefly" and "national" from white nationalist sentence so it reads "In 2017, the school came into the spotlight when a student was exposed as a white nationalist organizer who sent a lynching threat to a Black activist in Atlanta." "Briefly" could be taken to suggest that the situation is resolved or attention has faded. "National" sounds like an overstatement since AJMLS does not receive large amounts of national attention full stop. If "came into the spotlight" seems awkward, "received attention" would also work.

(2) Everything after the semicolon in the part about ABA accreditation is not supported by the source cited. So a separate source seems to be needed for that part. I notice that ABA accreditation is still mentioned on the AJMLS website - https://www.johnmarshall.edu/about/accreditation/ - so that could possibly work as a source, although it does not address the question of whether probation has been removed.

Other than those two things, I really like the edits. They all seem fair and balanced.

History (version 2)

AJMLS was founded in 1933 in Atlanta. In late 2011, AJMLS opened a sister school Savannah Law School in Savannah, Georgia.

In 2017, the school briefly came into the national spotlight when a student was exposed as a white nationalist organizer who sent a lynching threat to a Black activist in Atlanta. Later that year, the school's accreditor the American Bar Association placed the school on probation; the school has since been removed from probation and is fully accredited.

In March 2018, press reports stated that the Savannah Law School would shut down at the end of the Spring 2018 semester. A class action suit on behalf of Savannah Law School students claims that the Savannah school is being closed to financially benefit its parent school, AJMLS.

Looks good to me, any objections to putting it in? My only suggestion would be to just say 'spotlight', not 'national spotlight', since both sources are local. delldot ∇. 00:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for going ahead, looks good. I think putting the probation ref after the semicolon was a good call. If we can find a better source than the school's own website for the probation info, even better. delldot ∇. 00:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Removal?

I wanted to bring up this edit which removed sourced info that we had discussed and agreed to add (above). Is there an issue with the sentence or the sources that could be dealt with another way? Thanks! delldot ∇. 19:07, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi! Apologies for not signing on sooner. I had researched the allegations and could only find local blog posts on the subject, no legal or police action or substantiated references other than from a singular group. Do you know if the activist mentioned in the sentence filed a complaint or was able to prove the threat came from this person? That would be really interesting information. Being that it's a pretty inflammatory sentence about a person and not the business, I wasn't comfortable with its inclusion given it's prominent weight in the article under the History section. Thoughts? Omgallusernamesaretaken (talk) 15:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for taking the time to discuss, no worries on the timing, I've barely been around. So if I'm reading this right, your concern is that the claim might not be true and it's better to be conservative since it's a potentially harmful assertion? So you're looking for more verification? What do you mean by singular group? There are 2 sources for that sentence, we discussed them above and agreed they were meh but acceptable. Would adding more information help, e.g. if we're able to find the answer to your question about the police report? Would adding other info to the history section help with the issue of prominence that you mentioned? Anyway thanks again, I'm sure we can figure something out that we're all happy with. delldot ∇. 03:33, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi, the content you removed had two sources. One is Atlanta Progressive News, a news website which has several authors and a listed editor. The second source is GeorgiaPol, another curated Georgia political news website. The author of the second piece is a former Atlanta Journal-Constitution writer who has also contributed to The Guardian. There does not appear to be any controversy regarding the facts about the AJMLS student. If there is controversy, please cite a source. Considering that AJMLS is a small school, a story such as this is certainly noteworthy - though I'd agree at this point it only deserves a couple of lines. AOM831 (talk) 02:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi again! You're right, I cannot find anything that contradicts the allegations. I think it just bothered me that with the ton of information on the blog posts cited, there was no legal action taken by anyone involved (which I'm guessing is why nothing has been done). I bet the school can't comment even if they wanted to so we aren't likely to see anything else. How long do you think this should this be displayed under the school's history? Presumably, this guy will move on and not have ties to the school. Sorry I was late to the game on this, I appreciate the chat! Omgallusernamesaretaken (talk) 18:41, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey, yeah that makes sense. Good question on how long to keep it, I think it would depend how it gets covered in media if at all. I would think it would be worth revisiting at least to update after he graduates. Let's discuss then! delldot ∇. 23:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey! Long time. Curiosity got me and I went down the rabbit hole to see what resolution (if any) transpired here. Does not appear this person became a barred attorney in Georgia per the GA Bar Directory Thoughts on removal of this mention? I do not see any further action after we last chat. Also note, I'm going to marry the first and last paragraph of the section so the same topic can begin/end in the same paragraph. Thanks again, hope all is well. Omgallusernamesaretaken (talk) 13:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

References