Talk:Arthur Rose Eldred

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Arthur Rose Eldred has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 27, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
November 10, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
July 9, 2009	Good article reassessment	Kept
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 19, 2006. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that in 1912 Arthur Rose Eldred* became the first Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America and his descendants are still involved in Scouting?*
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on September 2, 2019, and January 4, 2024.
Current status: Good article

Biography

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Scouting High‑importance

	Scouting portal Arthur Rose Eldred is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ScoutingWikipedia:WikiProject ScoutingTemplate:WikiProject ScoutingScouting articles
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Eldred's sash

Go to http://www.eaglescout.org/history/first_eagle.html to see a color picture of his merit badge sash. (please don't remove this note) Rlevse 11:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note from Nina Rose Eldred

Wikipedia received a note explaining there are currently three descendents in Scouts; her two nephews and her son. I've updated the article, and added a note to the footnote, and encouraged Ms. Eldred to place a confirmation on this talk page as well (the OTRS link is not accessible to all for verification due to privacy policy.) - Amgine 18:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it's not acessible, then it's of little use in the article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Problems

Large chunks of this article seem to have been copied from EagleScout.org and from the Eldred chapter of NESA. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll work on it. Rlevse 16:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Click on medal photo and read I got permission from Eaglescout.org in Jan 2006 How should I work this into the article?Rlevse 16:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at :Wikipedia:Contributing_FAQ. -Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just did, also I found this at: legal ? "We will not post copyrighted material without permission from the author to release it freely to the public." Plus they gave me specific perm in Jan on Eldred and his photos, with family permission too. Suggestions on proceding? Rlevse 16:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As best I see it, if we directly copy text, then it must be either public domain or GFDL. Probably the best way is to redo the article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They're saying it is public domain.Rlevse 17:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article nomination failed

The Good Article nomination for this article has failed for the following reasons:

The article could use some copyediting. (worked it)
A lot of Scouting medals and processes are mentioned, but with no context. For instance, what are Star and Life badges, and how are they earned? For that matter, what is the "merit badge system"? What exactly is a Board of Review and what do they do? These things might be obvious to someone with Scouting experience, but someone who isn't familiar with Scouting might be confused. A ton of detail isn't required, but enough to provide context and show why those things are mentioned in the article. (fixed)
Is there no information on his death? A full date? A cause? (got date, colon cancer)
The Education and career section is completely lacking in cited references. (fixed)
Did he see any action during WWI? (uncertain) That info would be good to include. Also, when did he enlist and when did he serve? (fixed)
Many times in the article, Eldred is referred to by his first name. This is not good encyclopedic form. (fixed)

These are the items that stand out on first review. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 17:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I indeed agree with Cholmes here (Sorry Randy). The article certainly needs more body for a successful GA nomination. His being the first eagle scout makes him (just) notable enough for an article in wikipedia, but his life won't have been only the eagle scout thing. He even went to University (not many did in the early decades of the 20th century), so he must have been somebody. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wimvandorst (talk • contribs) 27 July 2006.

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.

There may be an applicable infobox for this article. For example, see Template:Infobox Biography, Template:Infobox School, or Template:Infobox City.^[1] (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)
- Done. Rlevse 12:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This article is a bit too short, and therefore may not be as comprehensive as WP:WIAFA critera 2(b) is looking for. Please see if anything can be expanded upon. Done. Rlevse 01:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a. ^[2]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Rlevse 11:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ See footnote
^ See footnote

SC-244

Here is a photo [1]. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

COOL. I'll make it an external link unless we get permission to use it. Rlevse 12:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Board of Review date

The BOR award date does not seem correct. If he got the letter from West on 21 August 1912[2], why mention the design issue when he was awarded Eagle only three weeks later? In the Boardman letter[3], Eldred states that he was awarded Eagle in April 1912. From what I know of West and his zeal to promote the BSA and himself, he would not have waited until August to notify Eldred. Is it possible that the West letter was actually from April instead of August? If so, then the delay caused by the design issue would certainly be mentioned by West. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On Eagle Scout.org, it says he finished the MBs in April. Then it says "in a letter dated August 21, 1912,...". I'll ask his son about the delay, but I've always seen the Aug 21 date listed as his official date as that's the date of the letter. Good thing Bill is still alive! Rlevse 15:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder where we could find vintage copies of Boys' Life? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Answer from Eldred's son on 2 Nov 2006:

    "My guess about the dates Dad was awarded his Eagle Scout Badge  is that the
     local troop awarded him the badge as soon as he obtained the 21 merit badge and
     didn;t realize or know that national needed to review his fitness for being the first                 eagle.
       I don't know the date of the national "BOR" but guess it was May or June 1912.  I
       say that because the August 21 letter says it "formally" notifies him of the award
       which leads me to conclude he was informally told earlier. If I have any further                     thoughts on this I'll let you know. "

Rlevse 22:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. It would be nice to have a copy of the letter. I don't believe they had "instant recognition" back then. As I recall, boards of review and courts of honor were done at the district or council level. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 04:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where I was in the late 1960s, we had district COHs, where we moved in the early 1970s, we had troop COHs. Rlevse 10:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Improved Scouting Program in 1972 introduced instant recognition and would have done away with any remants of the older methods. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article

Today I passed this article as GA, because it provides all the basics of a good article (and complies with the formal requirements of course). For future development, the article could do with more body, especially on its non-Scouting content. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC).[reply]

OTRS submission

Permission to fully release the 1912 photo of Arthur and the 1944 photo of Arthur and his son under GFDL was obtained from his son on April 14, 2007 and necessary info submitted to OTRS. Rlevse 22:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See the two image's talk pages for the actual OTRS permissions, which were made April 15, 2007.Rlevse 09:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Version 0.7

This topic didn't quite make it in terms of importance. Version 0.7 is limited to only the top 1% or so of topics. Walkerma (talk) 02:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Arthur Rose Eldred/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

GA Sweeps: On hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing Sweeps to determine if the article should remain a Good article. I went through the article and made various changes, please look them over. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. However, in reviewing the article, I have found there are several issues that needs to be addressed.

Expand the lead a bit more to include more details on the article. A few more sentences should suffice.

done by JGHowes. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The last paragraph in the "Scouting as a youth" needs a citation.
added. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Four of his great-grandsons, Kyle Kern, Tyler Eldred, Tennessee Abbott, and Bobby Hitte, are Scouts as of March 2007, working towards Eagle Scout." Can this be updated?
contacted two of his decendants I'm in contact with now and before. Heard from one, but not the other. THe one kid is still a youth in Scouts. Not sure if worth adding. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Expand on the last sentence in the article or merge it into another paragraph.
merged to prior para. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's a dead link that needs to be fixed.
Updated link. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article covers the topic well. I will leave the article on hold for seven days, but if progress is being made and an extension is needed, one may be given. If no progress is made, the article may be delisted, which can then later be renominated at WP:GAN. I'll contact all of the main contributors and related WikiProjects so the workload can be shared. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Sweeps: Kept

Good work addressing the issues. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good Article. Altogether the article is well-written and has a great source of free images. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. Try and update the grandsons' progress if possible. It would also be beneficial to update the access dates for all of the online sources. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 21:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Original research

This article contains several citations to sources that do not comply with Wikipedia standards. The interview notes are self-published original research, the "Great Family Traditions of Eagles" is also self-published and researched, and the private correspondence is an unpublished primary source, and in the case of the letter to the editor, it is also original research. None of this material is published in the conventional sense of the word. Unless anyone has an objection, I'll remove citations 3, 6-11, and 14-16, as they are in today's version.[4] The information isn't controversial so it needn't be removed unless it's questioned. Will Beback talk 08:50, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing no response, I've gone ahead and removed the non-compliant citations. Will Beback talk 02:02, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Arthur Rose Eldred/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Very first Eagle Scout in the United States.

Last edited at 17:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 08:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Date Confusion

There has long been confusion over the dates of Eldred's Board of Review, announcement, and ceremony. It is explained at length with newly found documents in the June 2017 issue of International Scouting Collectors Association Journal, pages 10-13. PumpkinSky talk 01:27, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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[infobox-1] See footnote

[copyedit-2] See footnote

[1]

[2]