Talk:Archie, Marry Me

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:34, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that the song "Archie, Marry Me", is the debut song by the Canadian indie pop band Alvvays as well as their lead single from their self-titled debut album (2014)?

Created by Saginaw-hitchhiker (talk). Nominated by JeBonSer (talk) at 22:55, 20 March 2020 (UTC).

• This is a comment rather than a review (I may review this if I have time, but for now I'm not sure if I can do it). I think a different hook has to be proposed here. The hook as written isn't really a hook, it's a statement of a fact, and it's something that's not going to catch attention among general readers. Having taken a quick look at the lede, I would suggest taking inspiration from the article sections on its production and critical reception; perhaps the fact that the song is inspired by the romance of the artist might work? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:49, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

• How about this hook?:

• ALT1:... that the name "Archie" from the song title "Archie, Marry Me" is a fictitious character? Source: "It is a fictitious character, but the situation was a bit of an autobiographical one," said singer Molly Rankin of Toronto’s Alvvays. Rolling Stone. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 06:15, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that would work either, song being based on fictional characters is very common. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:00, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2:... that the song "Archie, Marry Me" was rated among the best tracks on several best-of lists in 2014? Source: 11. Alvvays, "Archie, Marry Me" Rolling Stone; 32: 19: Alvvays, 'Archie, Marry Me' NME; 59: Alvvays, "Archie, Marry Me" Pitchfork; 44: ALVVAYS, "Archie, Marry Me" The Washington Post. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 11:38, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

That's a bit vague. Maybe there could be some focus on how the song was produced and written? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:15, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2 (reworded):... that the song "Archie, Marry Me" was rated as one of the best tracks on several lists of best songs in 2014? JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 10:47, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I think I was thinking more about how the song was influenced by how the song's performers saw that their friends were getting married. The part in the lede that goes Rankin and O'Hanley were romantically linked, and had been collaborating for some time creatively. Then in their mid-twenties, they observed friends quickly being wed with derision. An editor I asked on Discord also suggested that perhaps a hook on how the song begins with bird chirps might also work. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:08, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I think it's more interesting if we stick to ALT2. What do you think? JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 02:02, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

It really doesn't say much about the song itself, and a similar-enough hook could be made for any other popular song for 2014. I just don't think that direction is going to work out. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

• ALT3... that Archie, Marry Me begins with birds chirping? Source:The song begins with the faint noise of birds chirping,[1]©Geni (talk) 09:11, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:12, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
• New review. Article was new and long enough when nominated. It appears generally well-cited, though ref [27] is missing a link when it needs one. Of all the hooks proposed above, Alt3 is the only one that I think meets requirements, but it is quite short and a bit bland. I think that the best place to get interesting hooks from would be the music video section. Kingsif (talk) 17:37, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
• @JeBonSer: Are you still planning to continue this? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:31, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
• ALT4:... that in the making of the music video of "Archie, Marry Me", the battery of the camera that was used in filming was damaged but Alvvays fixed it by using vinegar to neutralize the battery fluid? Source: "So we made another super-8 video, one where we take 'take the plunge' to the logical extreme. The camera exploded at sea so we neutralized the black battery goo with vinegar and kept shooting. My hasty retreat via doggy-paddle was left on the cutting room floor. Go figure." Vice. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 04:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
  • A hook, not a story, please. Kingsif (talk) 05:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
• ALT5:... that the sailboat which can be seen from the music video of "Archie, Marry Me" was borrowed from Alvvays friend's parents? Source: Molly Rankin: Our friend’s parents live on an amazing sailboat, and we thought it’d be fun to film us sailing around Toronto Island. www.northerntransmissions.com/interview-with-molly-rankin-from-alvvays/ JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 07:43, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• ALT5 looks good. Might need some simplifying ("the sailboat used in the music video", perhaps) but satis. Kingsif (talk) 14:26, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote ALT5 (which doesn't seem so hooky to me), and the URL for the hook fact is missing. Also, it's strange to call it Alvvays friend's parents since Alvvays is missing a possessive apostrophe-s. Yoninah (talk) 22:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• If that's the URL I mentioned above, I thought it had been fixed when I was checking alt4 out. Alvvays seems to be a band, so I would leave it up to prep builders to fix that possessive. It's probably more interesting if the hook establishes Alvvays as the song's artist. I'm sure JeBonSer will be able to provide more hooks, though. Kingsif (talk) 23:29, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

ALT5a:... that a sailboat used by the band Alvvays for the music video of their song "Archie, Marry Me" was borrowed from the parents of their friend?

ALT5b:... that a sailboat used in the music video for the song "Archie, Marry Me" by Alvvays was borrowed from the parents of the band's friend?

@Kingsif, JeBonSer, and Yoninah: How about these wordings? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:18, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• I honestly think this hook angle is flat. Yoninah (talk) 02:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I prefer ALT5b. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 05:15, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

@JeBonSer and Yoninah: If I proposed some hooks, would Yoninah review them? Kingsif (talk) 03:59, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kingsif: Considering Yoninah hasn't responded I'd be willing to check any additional hooks. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:30, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

• Really, the article is GA-quality; there is lot of information here to develop into a hook. Perhaps:
• ALT6: ... that midway through filming the music video for its 2013 debut song "Archie, Marry Me", Canadian indie pop band Alvvays sent its digital crew home and did the final clip with a Super 8 camera?
• Please note that footnote 27 is missing a URL. Yoninah (talk) 11:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

• Alt6 is much better. @JeBonSer:, I mentioned ref 27 two weeks ago, are you going to fix it? Kingsif (talk) 14:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

• Y fixed JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 06:03, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• Plain url rather than link, but that only makes it a bit more difficult for mobile users. Approving alt6. Kingsif (talk) 15:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• Kingsif, I saw the plain URL and went to fix it, but it turns out that northerntransmissions.com is on Wikipedia's blacklist for some reason, so live links to it are not allowed. So I've left the reference as is without investigating further; an interview would seem to be okay even if the site has other issues, but I can't say that for sure. Pinging Yoninah for her take. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• Forget it, we are not using a blacklisted source. I've removed it from the page and left a "citation needed" tag for one sentence. Before I suggest another alt, Kingsif, I wonder if all the other refs are in order? There are some notable sources, but also some no-name ones. Yoninah (talk) 18:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• Do we know why it's on the blacklist? At least quite a few are there because IPs wouldn't stop dropping the link in plaintext or using the source inappropriately, even if it's fine in itself. I'll check the other refs, though. Kingsif (talk) 19:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Other sources look fine. Kingsif (talk) 19:57, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• All the hooks have been struck due to sourcing issues, and no new hooks have been proposed in the past ten days. Unless an interesting hook that is supported by a valid source is proposed soon, I think we'll have to close the nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• ALT7: ... that the song Archie, Marry Me did not place on charts, but is still considered band Alvvays's "breakout" hit? Stereogum Kingsif (talk) 18:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Will need a review for alt7 (since I did the full review and sources, another reviewer might also want to do that again). Note that the quoted "breakout" is not in the article, which paraphrases with 'breakthrough' instead (an easy tweak if accepted). Kingsif (talk) 18:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I think ALT7's suitability would depend on a number of factors, such as if "breakthrough hits" not charting is a common occurrence or not, or how well known Alvvays is. Personally I'd never heard of them before this nomination, but perhaps someone who's more familiar with Canadian music and the genre they work in might be able to provide some more input. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:10, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

• Having read the article, and looked at the sources, I think Alt7 will work. --evrik ^(talk) 14:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Archie, Marry Me/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MarioSoulTruthFan (talk · contribs) 15:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

• No source backing up the Digital download or CD Single (the promo for radios is not available for comercial release)
• Genre: Indie pop → Not backed up by any sources
• Not listed as a songwriter on credits and personnel: Alec O'Hanley

 Done

Lead

• The song was written → It was written
• Molly Rankin with guitarist Alec O'Hanley → Molly Rankin with guitarist Alec O'Hanley as a critique of the standard societal expectation that one is to marry upon entering adulthood.
• The two wrote the track as a critique of the standard societal expectation that one is to marry upon entering adulthood. → remove this sentence
• In the band's home country, it was later released on Royal Mountain Records → what do you mean?
• band's breakthrough hit → see below

 Done

Background

• gained bassist Brian Murphy → not very enciclopedic
• Public Strain → release date between brackets
• The album was mastered by Greg Calbi and Steve Fallone at Sterling Sound. → source?

 Done

Composition

• genres indie rock, twee pop, noise pop, dream pop, guitar pop, and surf rock. → none of them in the infobox, why?
• Halifax[disambiguation needed] → fix
• where she waitressed → and waitressed

 Done

Music video

• The image caption says the video was filmed in 2015, but the video was released in 2014.
• Adult Diversion", which was filmed utilizing a Super 8 film camera → remove, this is an article regarding "Archie, Marry Me"
• The group shot the final clip themselves again using a Super 8. → The group shot the final clip themselves using a Super 8, like in their video for "Adult Diversion" (2013)
• Halfway through filming, the band heard a noise inside the camera, which damaged its battery. A quick Google search revealed to neutralize the battery fluid by using vinegar, which the band did and were able to resume filming. → "Halfway through filming, the camera has its battery damaged. They neutralize the battery fluid using vinegar and resume filming." it has too much detail

 Done

Release

• Alvvays initially self-released "Archie, Marry Me"; an early demo of the song was → "Archie, Marry Me" was initially self-released as an early demo. The song was
• as did second single "Adult Diversion" → as did their second single "Adult Diversion" (2013) + remove wikilink
• In the United States and Europe, the single → which single?
• Polyvinyl began promoting the single → same as previous
• ater that year, they issued it as a 7" single, with "Adult Diverson" as its B-side, exclusively to mail-order subscribers. Both the aforementioned companies distributed promo CDs with those tracks in their countries, aiming for airplay on college radio stations → missing a source
• and was considered the band's breakthrough hit → not on given source

 Done

Reception

• He musically considered → He considered
• Ilana Kaplan at Spin → Spin's Ilana Kaplan
• Miles Bowe at Stereogum → Miles Bowe from Stereogum
• Katzif at NPR → Katzif of NPR
• Wrong preposition on the fixes above
• classic indie hit → "indie-pop classic" (stick to the sources)

 Done

Personnel

• Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel.
• Two collumns

 Done

References

• NPR → publisher
• You either wikilink every work or publisher, or only once in their first instance. I prefer the latter option.
• Wikilink Pitchfork, Consequence of Sound, Drowned in Sound, NPR, Billboard, NME, Stereogum and Chicago Tribune
• Don't SHOUT in references
• Reference 26 → Missing or empty |url=
• Reference 16 is in copyright violation.

External links

• Fine

Overall

• You can now address the issues. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 17:22, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Saginaw-hitchhiker: I have seen almost everything, please see below two issues I left. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:58, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Re: GA

Hello. I've adjusted according to the majority of your suggestions. Some thoughts:

• No real reason to delete the sentence "The two wrote the track as a critique of the standard societal expectation that one is to marry upon entering adulthood." It hints at further explanation later in the article and is something I find worthy of making the lead.

It was remove because I added it to the first paragraph, it made more sense. Not delete altogether. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• Re: Royal Mountain Records – distribution of the track was split between various indie labels in several countries. In the lead, I think it's important to state first and foremost the band's label in their native Canada

I re-wrote it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• I chose not to clutter the infobox with the dozens of genres critics applied to the music. Indie pop/dream pop appeared most universal and commonly used. Still, if this is something you're interested in amending, I can do so

Maybe a note below indicating other genres on the text. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

• The image mentioning 2015 is in reference to the year the photo was taken -- suppose this could be more clear

Made it more clear. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:37, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• The source calling it the quartet's "breakthrough hit" is phrased as "breakout track"

 Done

Thank. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

• Don't see the reference issues you're describing. Reference 16 is Rolling Stone and Reference 30 was using a website registered on Wikipedia's blacklist. I've requested that the specific page be allowed, without unblocking the whole website, on the spam whitelist talk page.

Thanks!

Regarding the last issue what I said about Rolling Stone was that ""Just two kids without any direction, doing it on a whim in a courthouse, saying 'Who cares?' to everyone else who has all of their ducks in a row before settling down. It was the most romantic thing I could think of at the time" and "surrounded by six feet of snow," she says. "We had a snowmobile to get to the road, but we ended up burying the snowmobile. I guess we were inspired by it being so bleak." need to be pharaphrased as Earwig's tool strikes them as copyright violation. See here 1. Show me the page of such request. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:13, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done

@Saginaw-hitchhiker: As of right now, we just need to get to an agreement point on the genres. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Saginaw-hitchhiker: Are you still up for this?

@Yoninah: I have seen you seem quite interested in the article, I was wondering if you could help with the issue that still puts this GA on hold? It is regarding the genres, you can see above the nominator didn't want to clutter the infobox with 7 diferent genres, and I was trying to come up with the solution, but in the meantime he didn't came back to the article. Many thanks, MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

• @MarioSoulTruthFan: actually, I was just editing the article to prepare for its main page appearance at WP:DYK. I am not interested in the subject and also found that the nominators did not respond promptly to requests at DYK. Yoninah (talk) 22:17, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@Valereee:I was wondering if you could help with the issue that still puts this GA on hold? It is regarding the genres, you can see above the nominator didn't want to clutter the infobox with 7 diferent genres, and I was trying to come up with the solution, but in the meantime he didn't came back to the article. Best regards, MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 18:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Something like that? (NOTE: I'm not involved in either the nomination or the reviewing process). --Urbanoc (talk) 20:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Urbanoc:Thank you for the quick response. I made a small change, what do you think? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:42, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

In my opinion, looks better with your change. --Urbanoc (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Guys, sorry about the delay. I think the aforementioned change looks fine; I just thought "indie pop" seemed the most accurate. I've edited it to what I think seems the most reasonable. Thanks. Saginaw-hitchhiker (talk) 03:02, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Saginaw-hitchhiker: I added indie rock according to the Consequence of Sound tag. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:39, 23 May 2020 (UTC)