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Requested move 5 March 2017

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 19:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Jeptha → Andrew Jephtha – incorrectly spelt family surname MikeJep (talk) 17:22, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink).  — Amakuru (talk) 17:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The article's sources (those which aren't deadlinks!) spell it Jeptha.[1][2][3]. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 17:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose move per lack of sources. Because the nominator claims to be a direct descendant of the person in question, it may be possible for him to provide an original-research source, but that would still violate Wikipedia policy.  ONR  (talk)  20:22, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Our role on here is to follow the published sources, not necessarily intimations of private personal knowledge. Yes, that can lead us into situations where we're actually wrong about something — for instance, our article about Barbra Amesbury was located at "Barbara" for years, because it had been created based on a source that spelled her first name incorrectly. But we moved the page when we could find a published source for the correction, not just because somebody came along and said it was spelled wrong. As I've noted below, people do sometimes use different spellings of their surnames professionally than they do in their personal lives — so what it would take to get this page moved is published sourcing about his professional life, proving that he was professionally Jephtha rather than Jeptha, not just how the family name was spelled on a census document. Bearcat (talk) 05:18, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Change of page title

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Link to 1911 UK Census showing correct spelling of family nameMikeJep (talk) 22:36, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I contest your opposition. Link No 5 ^ "Box Rec Encyclopedia - Andrew Jeptha". Retrieved 30 July 2012. Shows a photo signed by the boxer in question. The signature clearly shows the surname as being spelt 'Jephtha' NOT 'Jeptha'.

I am the great grandson of Andrew Darris Jephtha, the Boxer in question and all our family surnames have always been spelt 'Jephtha'.

Jephtha is the correct spelling of the family surname. There is no other documentary evidence to the contrary (that hasn't been penned and spelt incorrectly by a third party).

I look forward to your response.

Regards

Michael P Jephtha

  • I grew up in a city where the federal Member of Parliament throughout my childhood, and later mayor, was professionally known throughout his career by a different spelling of his surname than the one that's actually on his birth certificate — he's of Portuguese descent, so his real surname is actually "Rodrigues", but in a city with a large French population and only negligible Spanish or Portuguese communities, "Rodrigues" invariably ended up mispronounced as the French "Rodrigue" — putting an s on it simply doesn't do the same thing to it in French that it does in Portuguese. So he always used and still uses the more characteristically Spanish "Rodriguez" instead, since the z properly clarified and forced the correct pronunciation. And our article about him is located at the spelling that he used in his professional life, not at the spelling that's actually on his birth certificate.
    And I also used to know a woman whose surname was "Toews", but because that was so incredibly liable to get mispronounced as "Toes", she spelled it "Taves" in her professional life so that clients and colleagues and other people who only knew her casually would pronounce it properly instead of her constantly having to correct everyone. She didn't legally change it, and was still "Toews" in her personal life because her friends and family knew how to pronounce it correctly, but if you knew her professionally rather than personally you knew her as "Taves". And if we had an article about her, it would be located at "Taves" rather than "Toews" — because as the spelling that she was actually using in her work, it would be the spelling seen in the media coverage of her work.
    That's why we can't privilege "what's on the census" over "what's in the actual published sources": people don't necessarily always use the technically correct spelling of their birth surnames professionally, even if they do use the correct spelling personally. Our naming conventions are governed by what spelling is most commonly seen in the published sources, not necessarily what spelling is officially more correct than another. Bearcat (talk) 05:10, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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