Talk:Anambra State

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Requested move 7 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:12, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anambra → Anambra State – This page was moved without discussion by user:Jamie Tubers on 25 September 2015 from the normal name, "Anambra State". In Nigeria, state names are almost invariably given as "XYZ State". Other than newspaper headlines, the word "Anambra" alone is rarely used to refer to the state. A search for anambra on Google News gives the following text on the first page of results:

The intrigues-laden Anambra State FA election on Tuesday, May 3rd 2016 that brought out Chief Ifeanyi Ubah as the chairman of the State ...
The Anambra State Government has stopped the use of revenue agents to collect levies, taxes and fees in the state to avoid a situation where unsuspecting ...
Barrister Jude Obikwelu emerged the new Vice Chairman, while the following persons were also elected into the board of the Anambra State ...
Palpable tension has gripped residents of Igbo-Ukwu community in Aguata Council area in Anambra State, as over 100 strangers believed to be Fulani migrants ...
“I am dragging to court because we in the Anambra central senatorial zone are being denied the right of representation at the National ...
The Anambra State Governor, Willie Obiano, has launched a helicopter for aerial surveillance of the activities of herdsmen in the state.
There was tension at a settlement known as Kara Market along Atani Road, Ogbaru near Onitsha in Anambra state, following an explosion late ...
Bomb Blast Rocks Onitsha, Anambra State
Indeed, the Enugu massacre has made many people in Anambra to take a second look at the large number of Fulani families and commercial ...
Anambra PDP The leadership of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Anambra State has called for a fresh conduct of the ward congress.

A search for anambra on Google Books gives the following:

Rent Control in Anambra State
Education in Anambra State: Papers Presented at the Seminar on ...
Harmful Widowhood Practices in Anambra State: The New Millennium ...
Anambra. Basin. Sedimentary fill in the southern Benue Trough [this result refers to the Anambra River basin]
Efuru Deity and Government of Former Anambra State of Nigeria
...The outstanding mistrust and criticisms over the public schools in Anambra State could be traced back to the ...
Facts and Figures about Anambra State
Incentives and investment potentials in Anambra State and natural ...
Anambra State (Nigeria). Ministry of Commerce, Industry and Technology - 1997 - ‎Snippet view
How Jim Nwobodo rules Anambra State
National Gazetteer of Place Names: Anambra State

The article should be moved back to the standard form used for all states in Nigeria. "Anambra" on its own just looks weird. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:30, 7 May 2016 (UTC) --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 22:44, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:CONCISE, and because the "evidence" presented above is cherry-picked and one-sided, consisting simply of examples of the usage of the longer term, without any information on the frequency of the longer vs. the shorter. If there's proof the longer term is the WP:COMMONNAME across all English-language sources, I would reverse myself on this, but that means more than just African-English newspapers. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 09:54, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: There is no cherry-picking in the evidence. These are all the results from the first page of news items, just one of which uses the term alone, "Enugu massacre has made many people in Anambra to take a second look". The book results are all the results from the first page of a book search, none of which use the term alone. Newspapers and books seem a reasonable selection of sources. What additional evidence would you need to confirm that the state name is usually written as "Anambra State"? Aymatth2 (talk) 10:35, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed this at the other related RM already, but will repeat here: See WP:GOOGLE. "The first page of search results" = "who paid Google more". Even if you work with 20 pages of search results, you still have to carefully construct searches, and focus them when possible on more useful search types, like Google News, Google Scholar, and Google Ngrams, and even then try to weed out biases, and get world-wide results, and so on. I also reliable sometimes, a bit, on search engine data, but it's partial and weak. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 11:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: The searches are on Google News and Google Books. Nobody is paying Google to present only news items or books that use the form "Anambra State". But 19 out of 20 results use that form. Nobody uses "California State" when they mean "California", but that is the way Nigerian state names are written. No amount of search refinement will change that obvious fact. The article title should use the common form. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:21, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Google Books often includes a) outdated books; b) things that are not books (at all, or in WP:RS terms), and other claptrap. Second, yes, front page placement at Google can be bought directly, and it's generally badly skewed by throwing money at SEO indirectly. Which pages of the results a particular "hit" appears on is irrelevant. What matters is source quality, both as to reputability of the author(s) and publisher, and as to whether the work is of narrow, low-circulation, regional interest, or is mainstream publishing. Bolster the results with Google Scholar and Ngrams results (Ngrams takes time to learn, to get usable results out of it), and non-Google results. What comes up in political science and history journal archive searches, etc.? I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here, just suggesting that there are strong and weak ways to source something like this. As I said at the other page, I'd be okay with the "State" moves if it turns out that the majority of these things require "State" or "(state)" disambiguation because they are not WP:PRIMARYTOPICs, in which case WP:CONSISTENCY would probably override WP:CONCISE. But if most of them can be at the shorter names, then only DAB those that require it (and, per WP:NATURALDIS, do it with "State", the official name, not the awkward "(state)" parenthetical). — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 12:33, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose:Since Anambra is a primary topic, it is pretty redundant to add the adjective "State" to it. Also, using google search, Anambra brings up a larger chunk of search results. So per WP:CONCISE and by extension, WP:COMMONNAME, the article name is fine as it is.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 02:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jamie Tubers: I understand that you want to defend your bold move of most of articles on Nigerian states to US-style names, but the fact is they do not follow US naming conventions. The state name is almost always written "Anambra State", as the search results on Google Books and Google News given above show. A Google web search shows that the form "Anambra State" gives a larger chunk of search results. The first two pages of web search results give (my highlighting):

Anambra is a state in southeastern Nigeria. Its name is an anglicized version of the original 'Oma Mbala', the native name of the Anambra River... [Wikipedia]
This is a list of administrators and governors of Anambra State. Anambra State, Nigeria, was formed ... [Wikipedia]
The on-again-off-again sibling rivalry between the Uba brothers of Anambra State was again ...
Looking for a hotel in Anambra? Find discounts, read reviews and see photos of 193 hotels in Anambra only on Jovago.com
The state is located in the South East Geo-Political Zone of Nigeria. It was created on 27 August 1991 out of the old Anambra State. The state capital is Awka and ...
Find a hotel in Anambra. Over 205 Anambra hotels at Hotels.ng. Compare prices, read reviews and view pictures...
Find traveller reviews and 13 candid photos for 16 hotels in Anambra State, Nigeria on TripAdvisor...
Find 4 traveler reviews, candid photos, and prices for 16 hotels in Anambra State, Nigeria....
Information Anambra, Awka. 39382 likes · 5421 talking about this. Chair of INFORMATION in Anambra State...
The Anambra Government on Thursday sealed-off no fewer than 35 buildings in the industrial town of Nnewi over the refusal of the owners to ...
State, east-central Nigeria. Anambra state was first formed in 1976 from the northern half of East-Central state, and in 1991 it was considerably reduced in area ...
Created on August 27, 1991, Anambra state covers a total area of 4,844 km2 (1,870 sq mi) and has a total population of 4,055,048 as at the 2006 census...
The All Progressives Congress in Anambra has called on the Independent National Electoral Commission to cancel elections in areas where ...
During the early hours of today, a horrific accident occured on Obosi-Nkpor Road in Anambra State. According to a blogger who broke the ...
Anambra is a great state, but how is it the political power house when Enugu is there? Even Anambra politicians live in Enugu. And Abia is ...
In order to obtain a building plan approval, BuildCo must submit a duly completed application form to the Anambra State Urban Development Board, along with ...
Latest Stories in Anambra ... Democratic Party, PDP and a former governorship aspirant in Anambra State, ... Chris & Andy: Brothers at war in Anambra PDP.

If we exclude Wikipedia, this gives 10-5 "Anambra State" versus plain "Anambra". The Google News results gave 9-1 and Google Books gave 10-0. As noted in Wikipedia:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names, "When using Google, generally a search of Google Books and News Archive should be defaulted to before a web search, as they concentrate reliable sources". Adding "State" to the end is perhaps redundant, but that is the way it is usually written by reliable sources, as is the case with all Nigerian states. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you can quote several places where Anambra State has been used. It's not like it is never used, but a quick google search shows that "Anambra" alone is pretty much the common name. And even more appropriate for the title per WP:Concise.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jamie Tubers: When I click on the link you supplied, google search, I see all the results using "Anambra State". Not the headlines, obviously, see Talk:Abia (state)#Requested move 6 May 2016: NY Gov. Cuomo nixes NC travel ... (Mar 30, 2016). But all the text. I do not understand how this shows that "Anambra" alone is pretty much the common name. See the comment by User:Nyttend at the Abia (state) discussion. It would be daft for Wikipedia to try to impose US-style naming on Nigerian states. All the evidence is that the state names are almost invariably given as "XYZ State". Aymatth2 (talk) 13:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No one is imposing anything. Even if "Anambra" is the common name (which I am not convinced it is), there is WP:CONCISE, which indicates that articles should use the most concise title to fully identify the subject. "Anambra" serves just that. If you have a problem with that, you'll have to challenge the Wikipedia guideline first, and here is not the place.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 13:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The more relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). "By following modern English usage, we avoid arguments about what a place ought to be called, instead asking the less contentious question, what it is called". In this case it is called "Anambra State", presumably because the sources have not heard of WP:CONCISE. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:32, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From a process viewpoint, when a controversial move from a long-standing title has been made without discussion, as is the case here, it is best to revert to the prior title and then allow formal discussion of the move. We need consensus that the move should be made. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:34, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support for procedural reasons (to undo a controversial undiscussed move) and on the merits (Nigerian states are almost always referred to as "XXX State" even with multiple mentions in the same source). — AjaxSmack 03:16, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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