Talk:American Tragedy (album)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:American Tragedy (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AJona1992 (talk) 20:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC) and MayhemMario 19:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

• No problem, feel free to notify me if there are any changes that need to be made before passing the article. GroundZ3R0 002 20:34, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Notes from AJona1992

• WP:Non-free content: Seems fine with me. All three non-free images all have suitable rationals and captions.
• WP:SAMPLE: There's no sample here. Probably not a good choice to have four non-free content in the article.
• DABCHECK: None to report.
• WP:DEADLINK: None to report. Will check sources to make sure they back-up claims.

Lead

• 01. "Production for the album took place following the induction of Daniel Murillo into the band in early 2010 and lasted until December." - did you mean the production for the album lasted until December or Murillo's induction in the band?
• 02. "Don Gilmore and Ben Grosse, who helped produce the band's 2008 album, Swan Songs" - I have no problem with the way its written, but, usually I write the album's release year in parentheses. Ex: "They also produced her previous album DayDream (2056)". Most, or should I say, the majority of GA albums use that format. I don't think they input "2008 album, album name" like that. I could be wrong though.
• 03. This sentence "It also charted fairly" seems orish to me. Would consider rewriting it. Ex, if the album charted in the top ten you would state: "It charted in the top ten in Canada and the United Kingdom"

Background

• 01. "Desperate Measures in late 2009" would be better written with the year of release in parentheses, similar to the majority of GA-album articles.
• 02. "in its ninth season" wikilink to the ninth season
• 03. Well this gets a bit tiring lolz "On January 19, the band released a photo of their new masks as well as new member Danny's mask. The band reasoned new masks because, "We wanted new masks because they represent us as a band, and as a whole. We all felt it's years later since the first record and time to start a new chapter." In addition, the growing fan base of the group made Jerry Constantine, the mask molder, to point out that some of the fans masks started looking better than the band's masks. "So we stepped it up", J-Dog reported when debuting the new masks. Each member designed their own masks, with the new designs being much closer to the original concept for the masks than before. Johnny 3 Tears feels the masks are more sophisticated and reflect how different the new album is from their previous efforts" - oh wow I believe there are more words in here then when MayhemMario complained on my review about inserting too much song lolz.
• 04. "much heavier than 2008's Swan Songs." yea I think having the year in parentheses would be more professional and better for the article.

Musical and lyrical themes

• 01. "American Tragedy opens with the single "Been to Hell"" ---> "American Tragedy opens with the single "Been to Hell""
• 02. Maybe you would want to wikilink the singles (that have a Wikipedia page)
• 03. I'll let MayhemMario finish off this section. I think that this section has a bit of a run-off "track title, release, what the lyrics mean. Track title, release, what the lyrics mean..." But I'll let him review this section to see what he thinks.

Singles and promotion

• 01. "and Billboard Rock charts" - and the Billboard Rock charts
• 02. " They will also play the final day of Summerfest on July 10 in Milwaukee" please use past-tense tone its July 19 per WP:TENSE

Commercial performance

• 01. "and is right behind Adele's 21" - this isn't written in past-tense tone
• 02. Numbers 1-9 must be spelled out completely "number one, number two, number three..." per WP:ORDINAL
• 03. "which is slightly over 900,000 sold in the US after almost three years of release" - this sentence needs to be written in past-tense tone as well.

Critical reception

• 01. "to the 1994 Nine Inch Nail album, Downward Spiral." can we agree that it would be better if you wrote the year of release in parentheses?
• 02. "Revolver Magazine" needs to be italicize
• 03. "The Minaret" if a magazine or newspaper must be italicize
• 04. "L.A. Times" ---> Los Angeles Times

Grammar fixes from MayhemMario

To be done by MayhemMario. Going to be done on 21/7/11 (im very busy) :) MayhemMario 20:36, 20 July 2011 (UTC) LEAD

• In the lead it says 'along with several high-profile producers including Kevin Rudolf, Sam Hollander, Dave Katz, Griffin Boice, Jeff Halavacs, and Jacob Kasher.' This is or could be biased. 1) you should delete 'high-profile' 2) they cant be that high profiled if 3 of them havent got an article :)

M&LT

• 'However, it has not been confirmed to be a diss.' Please re-word.
• Okay this is confusing, you either use numbers to represent numbers (1) or words (one) during the whole 1st paragraph you keep changing, sort this out.
• I think personally the 1st paragraph is badly written. I mean I knwo its the contents of the songs, but I think you go into TO much detail.
• I dont get this- Track eleven is "Bullet", a light pop song about suicide. It has upbeat instruments and a young child singing at the end, which gives contrast to the dark lyrical content. How the hell does a song about suicide be portrayed as happy?
• It gets extremely boring to read the paragraphs. Maybe put it in bullet points to make it more clearer, and try and limit it down (zzzz.....) :)
• It is a dark ballad that has been often compared to Eminem's "Stan"- link.
• It is a heavier song about murder that was designed to allow fans to mosh to at concerts. Johnny 3 Tears said, "When we wrote Tendencies, I wanted to make a song that kids would just go nuts to when we played it. Kids start moshpits at our shows. Not every song we have is the best mosh song, so I wanted to make a song kids could go crazy for."[14] It says what the quote is about before you read it, is there any point of the quote?
• The song is often compared to the song, "Black Dahlia" on Swan Songs- link
• The last paragraph, gets really confusing, you talk about 'deluxe' quite a lot- my heads spinning. :(

S&P

• J-Dog says that this is his favorite song that the band has done so far. - REF?
• The band reportedly almost drank the entire bar behind the TBS set- 1) TBS? 2) Reword.

Reception

• In commerical performacne, quite a few senetences start with 'this' (limit down).
• (Critical Response) You've included 'an evil power ballad that everyone who hears it will feel", and comparing it to Eminem's Stan.[35]' the eminmem stan thing has already been included once in the article- no need to repeat
• LOOK-

Jeremy Borjon of Revolver Magazine gave the album four out of five in his review in which he called American Tragedy Rick Florino of Artist Direct gave American Tragedy 5 out of 5, particularly CHOOSE ONE!

• That is it. There may be a few points I missed. :) MayhemMario 16:04, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Final note

I'm going to put the article  On hold for seven days for improvements. AJona1992 (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I have gone through the entire review and addressed every point made by both Ajona and MayhemMario. I feel these were all helpful comments and changed them accordingly. Does this pass GA now or are there any other points you didn't mention? By the way, I will be unable to reach internet access until around July 30, so please keep the review open until then if you have further points needing addressing before the article is passed. Thank you, GroundZ3R0 002 23:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Background

• 01. Why did Aron "Deuce" Erlichman quit the group? People who are not fimilar with the group are not going to understand the reason, like fans of the group.
• 02. Remove (in the link to the ninth season) "its", as the ninth season is the subject.
• 03. I understand what this sentence means "providing clean vocals" however, what it does is make me wonder on why would you choose this sentence for him? Was he the only member of the group to provide clean vocals? Or did Erlichman provide this before he quit?
• 04. Does this sentence needs to be in past-tense tone? "believes that it will launch the band into more mainstream success" even though it was released in 2011, did the album give them the success that they were seeking? Did it give them a wider audience? expanded fan base? if not, maybe using past tense would help.
• 05. In J-Dog's interview what about stating it like this? "[it has] been a long time..." obviously not the last three periods lolz.
• 06. This sentence "Johnny 3 Tears describes the album as being much heavier than Swan Songs (2008)." what about "Johnny 3 Tears describes the album as being much heavier than their debut album, Swan Songs (2008)." since it is their debut album.
• 07. I see insentient with Johnny 3 Tears name. Throughout this section his name is referred to "Johnny 3 Tears" while on the fourth para it states his name in abbreviated letters, while in the next sentence his full stage name is written. Just pick which way to state his name in the article, and stick with it.

Music and lyrical themes

• 01. "is a softer song" ---> "is an downtempo song" or "is a mid tempo song" or "is a ballad-type song"
• 02. "Next is "I Don‘t Wanna Die" ---> "The following track, "I Don't Wanna Die" ..." remove that period and merge that sentence with this one. Also replace "‘t" with "'t" on the song.
• 03. ""Hear Me Now" was the first single" was it the lead single since it was released first?
• 04. "and J-Dog says that it is his favorite song that the band has done so far." ---> "while J-Dog had stated that "Here Me Now" was (or is) one of his favorite song(s) that the band had written."
• 05. "The next party song of the album is "Gangsta Sexy", a song about going to nightclubs and pursuing women. Track eight is "Glory", a heavier song based around war and fighting." ---> "Gangsta Sexy", a party anthem song about heading to nightclubs and pursuing women. - which "party song" is this one? the second one? would want to add that, if its necessary. If this is in R&B/pop/hiphop it should be "... a dance pop song..."
• 06. "Track eight is "Glory", a heavier song based around war and fighting." ---> "The following track, "Glory", is a metal song? which drew influence from war and fighting."
• 07. "This is followed by "Lights Out", which is believed to be a song against their former singer, Deuce, and a response towards his songs, "When We Ride" and "Story of a Snitch", though it has not been confirmed to be an attack against him." ------> "Lights Out", which is believed to be a song against their former singer, Duece, and a response towards Duece's songs "When We Ride" and "Story of a Snitch". Although, the track has not been confirmed to be an attack against him - if its not then that means this is orish as there is no source here.
• 08. "The next track is the single "Coming Back Down", a softer song using acoustic guitars, which centers on the story of an unknown loved one who has recently died, with the narrator having difficulty trying to live without them." ---> "Coming Back Down", the third single released from the album, is a rock ballad song with acoustic guitars on the track. The lyrics describes about a story of an unknown loved one who has recently died, with the narrator having difficulty trying to live without them" - would change "them" if there is one subject.
• 09. What do you mean by "light pop song"? was it a power ballad?
• 10. "Track eleven is "Bullet", a light pop song about suicide. It has upbeat instruments and energetic vocals, which gives contrast to the dark lyrical content. Rick Florino called the track, "heart-wrenching genius"" ----> "Bullet", the eleventh track from the album, is a power ballad? song about suicide. It is played in an upbeat tempo with energetic vocals, which gives contrast to the dark lyrical content."
• 11. "This is followed by "Levitate", a song about sex but with darker verses about alcoholism and unrequited love." ---> ""Levitate", an (which tempo and genre is this song?) about sex, while the lyrics of the song talks about alcoholism and unrequited love"
• 12. ""Pour Me" is the last soft song on the album. It is a dark ballad that has been often compared to Eminem's "Stan"" ---> ""Pour Me", the final dark ballad song on the album, has been often compared to Eminem's song, "Stan""
• 13. "Johnny 3 Tears said of the song," ---> "Johnny 3 Tears stated that the "Pour Me"..."
• 14. Wikilink major chord
• 15. The statement J3T had stated doesn't really make any sense when you use the song's title there. Consider fixing it so it can make more sense.
• 16. "The standard edition of the album ends with "Tendencies", a heavier song about murder." ---> ""Tendencies", which is the closing track for the standard edition of the album, is in (what tempo? what genre?) song about murder."
• 17. “Mother Murder” --> "Mother Murder"
• 18. "It is followed by "Lump Ya Head", which is driven by classic swing and rock and roll themes." ---> ""Lump Ya Head", the second track off the deluxe edition, is a new jack swing? influenced with rock and roll song."
• 19. "Another party song, "Le Deux" follows, which takes advantage of synthesizers and adds a techno element to the rock song." ----> "Le Deux" (which I believe is French? may want to translate it, even though if the lyrics are in English) is a rock techno (or electronic rock music?) song that has influences from synthesizers.
• 20. "It is the first "dirty" Hollywood Undead song that is more rock over hip hop." - do you mean "explicit"? and this sentence as well needs copyediting.
• 21. The last sentence about the song "S.C.A.V.A" and "Street Dreams" needs to be copyeditied like the examples I had written.

Singles and promotion

• 01. "J-Dog says that it is his favorite song that the band has done so far." ---> "J-Dog had stated that "Here Me Now" was (or is) one of his favorite song(s) that the band had written."
• 02. "the band released a new track" - a "new track"? the album has been released already, needs past tense tone. How can it be new if its on the album? I believe you are stating that its the second single released from the album?
• 03. Who is "sylgraph"?
• 04. "to make an additional guitar track during the chorus." - "during the chorus of the song"
• 05. "the band announced the following day they will headline" - missing a word "the band announced the following day that they will headline"
• 06. "beginning April 6 and spanning across the summer until May 27" - seems more spring to me? lolz the first day of summer is June 21.
• 07. I assumed you mean the House of Blues? If so why is it written like this for "House of Blue" ? and why not wikilink it?
• 08. Why isn't George Lopez wikilink?

These needs to be fixed before it can be passed. Best, AJona1992 (talk) 01:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've fixed everything once again. I'm not sure I like how the prose reads for the Music/Lyrics section but I hope others find it easier to read. Anything else before this can be passed? GroundZ3R0 002 07:05, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Here's more:

Commercial performance

• 01. Remove these wikilinks (Radiohead's The King of Limbs) in the second para. Its already linked in the first para.
• 02. If you are not going italic Billboard 200 in the first para, don't italic it in further paras. Be consistent.
• 03. "American Tragedy has earned the band their best single week sales in the United States yet" ---> American Tragedy had earned the band their best single week sales in the United States, so far
• 04. "charted number five in Canadian albums charts and #43 in the UK albums charts" ---> "charted number five in the Canadian Albums Chart and number 43 (or forty-three) in the UK Albums Chart"
• 05. Remove link to "Swan Songs" the album was linked in the first para.
• 06. " Swan Songs, which has sold slightly over 900,000 copies in the US after almost three years of release" ----> "Swan Songs, which had sold over 900,000 copies in the US within the three years of its release"

References

• Ref#1 is not a WP:RS. It is a forum and is not accepted in Wikipedia, try and find a printed source on the web such as a magazine, newspaper, or archived news on google search.
• Ref#2 does not talk about the album being recorded in the summer of 2010 and remixing in Thanksgiving. It only backs up the claim of James Diener's responses about mainstream success for the group.
• Ref#3 is a Billboard chart overview of the album which states that it had only peaked at number five on the CAC not in America. However, Billboard has/d removed a lot of peak positions from several artists (like Selena for instance). If you can find a reliable source to back up the claim for its peak in the United States, please consider replacing. (b) it doesn't state that it peaked at #43 on the UK charts either. (c) is good (d, e, f, g, h, i) are all bad, does not state so in the source.
  • I see Billboard has deleted all the chart entries, but I must insist on keeping this as the reference because it is the accepted source. Billboard is the most bugged and sketchy site I have ever seen, it will delete and undelete information at random. I believe this information will reappear eventually, and I can personally note that every piece of chart info cited on reference is good, I put it in myself.GroundZ3R0 002 08:39, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
• Ref#4 is ok
• Ref#5 is ok
• Ref#6 (a) is ok (b) does not state so in the source.
  • I was using part b of that source to list support acts, so it does state so in the source. The other sources say that it began on January 20.GroundZ3R0 002 08:39, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
• Ref#7 [1] is a fansite how is this a reliable source?
• Ref#8 (a) is ok (b) is ok
• Ref#9 (a) is ok (b) is ok (c) is ok
• Ref#10 (a) is ok (b) is ok
• Ref#11 (a) is ok (b) is ok
• Ref#12 (a) is good (b) is good (c) is good
• Ref#13 (a) is good (b) is good (c) is good (d) is good (e) is good
• Ref#14 (a) is good (b) not in source (c) is good
• Ref#15 is not a reliable source its a blog [2]
• Ref#16 (a) is good (b) is good (c) is good
• Ref#17 is good
• Ref#18 is good
• Ref#19 only gives peak positions for Rock Songs, Heatseekers Songs and the Alternative Songs charts. It does not talk about it being on the iTunes, Zune Rock Charts and the Billboard Mainstream charts.
• Ref#20 is good
• Ref#41 why is this a WP:RS for the album's credits? The link talks about the writers for "Hear Me Now" and not the rest of the album. Its only benefit for the article is a source for the track listing itself and a stand-alone source for the song "Hear Me Now". Also the link gives a lot of good info that can be used in the article (sold out tours and number one album in the UK) it also reviews some of the songs and the album which can expand the "Reception" section btw.

Will continue later. Please try and find reliable sources in the meantime. Thanks, AJona1992 (talk) 07:20, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

• Fixed every mentioned reference error by either replacing with a reliable source or omitting the information. The few comments I left are clarifications that I hope you will agree with. FYI, the ref numbers are all different now due to adding and deleting refs. The prose has been revised, the links reviewed, and the references looked over (the remaining refs you didn't screen are all either reviews or commercial sources used for release history/catalog number), so I believe this should be more than sufficient to pass the article. GroundZ3R0 002 10:36, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Alright, please fix old ref#15 that is a blog which is not a WP:RS. I'll continue with ref checks before myself and MayhemMario discuss about the article's passing or not. Thanks, AJona1992 (talk) 15:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay, done. Let me know of your decisions. Thank you both for reviewing this article. GroundZ3R0 002 21:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I've got some suggestions to improve this article:

• In the musicians subsection of the "personnel section", why are there overlinks under Hollywood Undead, with the words "vocals" and "composer" linked more than once? unlink them; WP:OVERLINK
• the second paragraph of the "singles and promotion" section should have a citation at the end, otherwise it makes the last sentence in that paragraph an original research; WP:OR
• the first paragraph of the "music and lyrical themes" section should have a citation at the end, and the last paragraph in that section should also have a citation at the end

So, these are my suggestions-SCB '92 (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Addressed all three concerns. Still awaiting passing or failing. GroundZ3R0 002 09:06, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Since all my my and MayhemMario's concerns were all resolved, I'll gladly ✓ Pass the article. Congrats, AJona1992 (talk) 18:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Repair the article!

Alright, so I tried to fix the damaged article by copying this version [3] and replacing the current one with it but the system has banned me. If any registered user can do it instead of me, please do it! It's a shame that noone has repaired the article yet. --95.103.238.131 (talk) 00:39, 8 February 2016 (UTC)