Talk:All We Know Is Falling/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: MarioSoulTruthFan (talk · contribs) 21:54, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I'll be soon reviewing your article.

Infobox

• Recorded in 2005, yet I see no mention of it in the article.
• If genres are't cited in the critical reception then they should be here with sources for each one.
• Missing alt.

 Done

Lead

• First paragraph I would also add some of the themes of the album as well as Critical response. Not only this but also the genre of the album is important in here.
• Second paragraph, you need to move this "However, the album had a weak commercial performance: it failed to enter the Billboard 200, though it did reach number 30 on Billboard's Heatseekers Chart. The album reached No. 8 on the UK Rock Chart, and in 2010 it managed to reach the place fifty-one the UK Albums Chart and earned certification as a gold record by the BPI. In July 2014, after the group found success with its following records, All We Know Is Falling received gold certification from the RIAA." to here.
• Third paragraph, no need for it, just merge everything.

 Done

Background

• Hayley Williams was originally signed to Atlantic Records in 2003 as a solo pop singer. → source?

It was at the end of the next sentence, but I didn't know how often to put the ref tag...you don't need a ref tag after every sentence. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

• label's wishes→ which were? being a pop star?
• Williams recorded some demos → Williams made some demos...by the way source?

See above, if you insist I can do this for you. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

It's ok I just checked, just change the vocabulary, avoid repetition. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:38, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

• However, the band was almost fired because the label said they "were terrible." The songs then recently written by Williams and Josh Farro, "Here We Go Again" and "Hallelujah", saved the group from being fired. → missing information and needs some serious re-writing.

Like what? What am I missing? I took this directly from the Spanish GA.

Sounds so basic the sentence, like anyone could have written it. "were terrible." → for example. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:38, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

• "Here We Go Again" became the fifth track on All We Know Is Falling, but "Hallelujah" was saved for their sophomore album Riot! (2007) → The former song became the fifth track on All We Know Is Falling, while "Hallelujah" was saved for their sophomore album Riot! (2007)
• It seems to me that you miss to state they were almost fired twice!

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I meant that they were nearly fired one time, and the two new ones changed the label's mind. What should I do to avoid making this implication? Rewrite, obviously, but at the moment I'm stumped. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

 Done

Production

• Jeremy Davis picture on the opposite top corner.
• I wouldn't use Contactmusic.com as a source, their information seems paraphrased of Wikipedia.
• Reason why he left?

Nobody has ever insisted on knowing why a group member left in any of my GANs. I do it when it's available. It was probably his own personal reasons, since it was apparently his decision, not the band's, according to the interview with Josh Farro. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:36, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

I thought you would forget to put such. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

• "We decided we were going to base the album off of that, which is also what the cover means. The couch with no one there and the shadow walking away; it's all about Jeremy leaving us and us feeling like there's an empty space." → use your own words more often.
• and The Skyview Church → and at The Skyview Church
• Typically, Farro would write the music while Williams wrote the lyrics.[9] On occasion, Farro would contribute lyrics as well. → Usually, Farro would write the music while Williams wrote the lyrics. However, on occasion, Farro would contribute with verses, as well.
• On occasion, Farro would contribute lyrics as well. → source?
• do not deal with Davis' departure deal with → are not related to Davis' departure deal with

 Done

Release and promotion

• Hayley Williams picture on the right side.
• The hitquarters reference is missing date and an author.
• containing the previously..."Oh, Star" was made available → containing a previously..."Oh, Star", was made available. Can't you find the link in English?

Last I checked it wasn't available but I'll see if AllMusic has it.

Nope, nothing. This is literally the only place I've been able to find it. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:15, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

• Its "Oh,Star" or "O, Star"? Make it right.

I remember having problems with this one. It varied by link. I don't have the album. What do I do?

Check iTunes, amazon...MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

It appears on their next EP too, but it's always possible their spellings vary by release. For example (though extreme and rare), "Rumble Fish" and "Assdrop" are the same song. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:12, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Not a good example, they are the same song but have completely different titles not the case in here since what varies is an "h". I want for this album ot their next EP check iTunes, Amazon. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:12, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

The Summer Tic EP's back cover on Amazon has no h. Bingo. [1] And while you're at it, look how much these people are selling it for. Insane Paramore collectors.

Good job, check iTunes to see if its consistent. Are you going to buy it? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

• Billboard reference, missing a lot of things, author, work...should also state it was a limited edition to 4,000 copies.
• I need other sources than all music stating they were singles.

Oh come on, they even have their own individual cover art...and music videos...still not convinced? Are they promos then?

Ah, i just need the link with the release date. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Haven't found anything for the single. The Google search gave me mostly album hits, which makes situations like this near impossible to find anything you're actually looking for. The release dates I've been finding don't even make sense. "Emergency" was definitely released before August 21 2006. That was its UK release date, though I can't find any reliable sources for that. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:37, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

The AllMusic sources you provided only have the year, well I guess Emergency has a full date. So I guess the other dates you just guessed while writing the article? They are singles all tight I just want some dates. But if you can't find it, just change the release dates to the year 2006. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, I'll dig for them later if there even is anything.

• "Pressure" managed → "Pressure" was able
• he ended up rejoining the group → who? and when?
• the Warped Tour, beginning in Nashville, → the Warped Tour, which took place in Nashville,
• the band went on a headlining tour of the U.S. → the band headlined a tour in the United States (U.S.)
• UK tour → some dates in the United Kingdom (UK).

 Done

Critical reception

• The reviews for All We Know is Falling were mostly positive → All We Know Is Falling was met with generally mixed reviews from music critics.
• On their incredibly polished debut, it's obvious that someone has done Williams wrong ... but the well-trained boys in her band seem to realize that these vaguely emo, but mostly mall-punk tracks are better off recalling what you might've heard had you just dropped the attitude and accepted the fact that the last Avril Lavigne disc totally ruled." → use a little more your own words
• Tony Pascarella of The Trades → elaborate his review.
• Why not add click music review? This paragraph needs to be bigger.
• Last paragraph should be merged with the first one.
• Sates no genre.

Just merge the first two paragraphs, there is no need to be separate. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Only if you insist. I honestly think it's nice to have one paragraph explicitly about the genre analysis and influences of the record and the next few be actual opinion of the record. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Ok, leave it then. Address the rest of the issues so we can move to the work on the references. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

 Done

Commercial performance

• Initially, All We Know Is Falling had a weak commercial performance → bias
• became a sleeper success → bias and I wouldn't consider it a sleeper success since it failed to enter any major markets except in the Uk.

Good to know. Sleeper Success means international markets.

No sleeper success means a song that started of slow or it didn't even peaked anywhere and a couple months after it started to enter markets (plural here) and reaching top ten or even more.

• Peak of the album in Uk is missing?
• It never charted in Australia, despite that it became gold? It deserves a mention saying such, beyond saying it was certified gold.
• In 2016, the album's lead single "Pressure" was also certified gold. → why is this here? Should have a section called singles perhaps, with very little information from each one.

Nothing totally special happened with the singles, but I had some commercial information about them earlier in the article. I have moved it to this section.

• Missing sources.
• Whole section needs some serious re-writing.

What would you want me to put instead?

 Done

Track listing

• Need inlay notes for the standard version and references/inlay notes for the other versions.

 Done

Personnel

• Link "studio drum tech"

No link available.

• "tech" → technician?

Done

• Use {{spaced ndash}}

Why? They look the same. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:10, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

They are quite different, this guarantees space is equal in both sides. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:15, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

 Done

Chart positions

• Missing references.
• Please separate the columns according to the years.

 Done

Certifications

• Please use the "Certification Table Top".

 Done

Release history

• Should be Region, Date, Format and Label
• Need references
• That Gigwise reference will not work. Only as release date, no label or format, look it up on iTunes GB.

iTunes GB always lists the date something was first released. It will not list when something was released there. Why won't it work? I mean, is it the digital part that's a problem? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 19:51, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes the digital part is the problem in all the sources but the first. You can add a digital source if you want. Also the first source also claims LP release, no idea why you removed it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:01, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Has no label, doesn't state if its CD, digital download...

• Should also include the deluxe editions in here.
• Missing the digital source for download still. Not done

References

• You have at least two dead links, I would advise you to archive everything,
• There are more issues here but I will address them when you finish the other sections because of new websites and links you might add. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

What are the other issues? While I address this dead link here I'll wait here. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 15:39, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Just address the other stuff and then we will get down to it. It shouldn't take long. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:29, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

I think I have addressed everything I can except the chart references. I don't know what to do with the format requests on the charts. If I've missed something, let me know. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 03:14, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

You missed some stuff, take a look at them, I pointed them out. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

 Done

External links

• Ok.

Overall GA review

• Don't address any comments until I put say so. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:48, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
• Thank you for your patience. You have a lot of work to do here. Good luck! :) MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Hey Mario, homework has not been kind to me this week, so I plan to get a ton, if not all, of the issues done tomorrow. I have been unable to recover the release dates for the singles; but what about the links I added in the talk page's refideas template? Will those work for the former two? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 23:16, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Take your time. Emergecy sure, the other is missing a release date. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 23:38, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

How about that as proof the single exists? I could use the certification for "Pressure" from the RIAA to source the single's release date. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:28, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Any song can be certified by RIAA, usually labels don't do that. But when it happens and its not a single they just use the dates of the album release. But that was good thinking. Have you tried to search for iTunes archives, their official website, radio adds? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 23:56, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I knew about that trick, but it wasn't the album's release date, though. That was on the 26 of July, this was the 31 of July. What are these "radio adds" you're talking about? That doesn't happen till next album on this website...that what you're talking about? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 23:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, for instance or allacess music it fine too. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

I've never seen this "Allaccess" thing before. I now have an account there. Do you know if they have an archive of radio adds? I've found a board of them but I hope I don't have to go digging through Wayback and be potentially unsuccessful. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:23, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

They don't. You didn't need an account there, yes you have to go to waybackmachine but if fmqb has the radio dates its fine, don't need anything else. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:51, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

@DannyMusicEditor: Lets wrap this up. You only need source for digital download of Australia and UK, add also the vinyl to the states (included in the cd universe source), japanase release is also missing, you only added one of two. Also, the new promised chart performance section (which you claim to have made a draft). Once you address these concerns it will be passed. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:55, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I'd love to wrap this one. I took the release history stuff from Unorthodox Jukebox. If that needs fixed too, maybe I should change that to a conditional support. Oh, and I scrapped that other chart idea, since I thought what I did already was acceptable (if it's not tell me what you'd like). dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:37, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Now its not the time to do new stuff. Just add what I said and we will be good to go. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:55, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I will put in the Japanese release and American LP, and I've found a UK source for digital release. Do you have any good source recommendations for the Australian digital parameter? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 23:23, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Itunes or amazon or even 7digital for Australia, you can do the same for UK.MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Release Dates

Let's get something straight here, you need release dates. I don't care where they come from, fmqb, allacess, italian radio dates, iTunres (with singles cover), reviews...but I need in order to prove they were singles. So please do so by adding a date to the three singles. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:02, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I have an idea of a compromise. I will edit the page accordingly when I can and we'll see if that works. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 14:01, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I have time, there is no rush. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:53, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Here if the diff which shows the idea I've proposed: [2] I also changed the reference section thereafter. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 16:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

We keep having the same problem and I already told you that RIAA is not a good source for release dates. If you can't find the release date, it could even be the year you have to remove. No go to discogs and try to find it, use the number of the barcode of the recording and there you have it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:38, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

But that source from RIAA is not the same as the album's date, which is what you said the problem was. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 16:45, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I missed that...then it's good to go, but you still need to find one for the other two singles. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:49, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I am thoroughly convinced that any sources which did cover their American releases are dead and unreachable. It'd have been much more helpful if the Spanish GA, the article I modeled this out of, covered this information. But it does not. I've been able to locate "All We Know" as a single on iTunes in Italian and Spanish, and "Emergency" in Spanish, but they are unreachable and I cannot get the date. I don't think the US ever posted it on their iTunes page. Spanish archive, November 2009 Italian archive, April 2010 dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 17:09, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Of course use those! You can even use them to improve the singles articles.MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 17:14, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

The reference for "All We Know" goes nowhere. Fix it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes it does. Look at no. 8 in the list. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 23:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Look at the reference number 4, that was the one I was talking about. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:17, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

We have a misunderstanding. Reference no. 4, iTunes, lists their best sellers by number. "All We Know" is number 8. That is the furthest I can go. There are no archives available for that link and it's no longer available. So, there is proof it exists, otherwise I'd have put a date there. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 18:05, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

That's good, we need a date. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:05, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

No, we don't. That is evidence enough it was released as a single. We don't need concrete dates to prove it was released as a single. See Paid in Full. I'm done with this. I've literally dug everything I can out for this subject. I can find the date it was released as a video, but not as a single. I'm telling you, it's like all the evidence burned in a library fire before it could be used. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:09, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

I didn't said otherwise, I just need date in there. Its proved its a single, still I have no release date. 2006 its not going to hold on its own! MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:11, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Why not? The GA example I gave lists just years. I've seen song GAs go without a date. I've noticed that everything you edit is related to Bruno Mars; he became popular so quickly that all this information is readily, easily accessible. Paramore did not start that way, and not every single song they released became a big deal. Thus, I can see why you are very opposed to this idea at first. But think of how widespread this info became from reliable sources. I don't really think this was at all. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:51, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

First of all that's no what I meant, I just said that "All I Know" doesn't have a release date (year, month whatever), you have proved it is a single, but is missing a release date. I'm asking you to find one if you can, if not its fine, just remove the 2006 and leave the link next to the single. The others are fine. Yeah I wish it was, I have been digging stuff from the grave to improve every single article he has. Anyway, once you do it (hopefully this time you understood what I meant) get to the other stuff I left, I still have to check some sections I missed. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:04, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

This brings me back to Allmusic. Now that "All We Know" has been proven a single, I could make a note similar to the others which says it was released on iTunes(wayback ref) in 2006(Allmusic ref). Discogs doesn't even have it. I think it was probably a digital single. Does this sound like an okay plan? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 15:53, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

A brilliant one. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:03, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Citations

• rocklouder.co.uk. → Rocklouder
• paramore.net → Paramore's official website
• Ref 9 missing work...and it seems like band members are the authors of the interview

This is actually a much less-commonly used citation style, it' using {{cite interview}}. This seems to be formatted just fine, according to the rules of that citation style. Would you like me to change it? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:15, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Can tou show me the link for it? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

See Template:Cite interview. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:09, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

• absolutepunk.net → AbsolutePunk + wikilink
• europunk.net. → EuroPunk
• Only link Alternative Press once
• Amazon.co.jp→ redirect for amazon.com
• Ref 19 missing work and date
• Only link HitQuarters once
• crushmusicmag.com. → Crush Music Mag
• Spin Magazine missing author

It just says "SPIN Staff". Do you somehow want me to include that in the reference? dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:15, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

• Altpress.com → Alternative Press
• Some interviews are missing an author.
• Ref 33 and 35 missing work
• Wikilink buzzfeed
• Billboard.com → Billboard
• Prometheus Global Media → Nielsen Company + wikilink (only in late 2009 it was sold)
• Reference 42 same as the previous two.
• Ref 46 avoid shouting → link official charts

@DannyMusicEditor: Fix this and some of the stuff above (see release history and charts position → the latter might have implications on the commercial section, we will see). I will give it a second read and very likely a pass. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 23:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

I currently have a draft of the new chart section, and I found a date for the album's Australian release, I just haven't implemented it yet. I thank you also for being patient with my other nomination and I'll jump on a few of those things if I have time tonight. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 18:05, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

I think I have them all. If I missed any interview authors, let me know which ones are missing them. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 20:15, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Good work I'm still waiting for the new commercial section draft you have made and just add whats missing to the release history (Japanese edition), digital downlaod for UK and US. IDT is an illegal website please replace with iTunes source. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean "illegal website"? What illegal content was on there? All the posts for the deluxe edition on iTunes were reverted to 7/26/05 (original date), and to state that for the date of the deluxe edition would simply be nonfactual and add fuel to the fire that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Not what we're aiming for. That was the only proof left for the deluxe edition's actual release date. (which I'm telling you was DEFINITELY in May 2009...probably was the 19th but I didn't remember the day it came out. Paramore was one of the first rock groups I got into.) dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:17, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Oh, and I had completed the release history until this issue came up. I knew about this release, but the band didn't try hardly at all to promote the stupid thing. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 21:18, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

It means I can download illegally the album, I'm sorry but I just noticed it now. I'm sorry but that will not stand, can't have those source of links. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:48, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

You could archive the website, but people could go to the original website still unless you don't show the original source. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:05, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

@DannyMusicEditor: archive the source and use it, but don't show the original version of the webstite. I have no clue if you should do this, but its the best I can do right now, unless you are willing to use the amazon.com source (it has amazon date, not iTunes)