Talk:All Hell Breaks Loose (Charmed)

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Resurrection

Resurrection from being a redirect or disambig page occurred as this article meets criteria for notability in that it marks the end of an important era in this television show, where the cast underwent a major upheaval and the production philosophy of the show changed dramatically, in that after the departure of Shannen Doherty, new plots presented the new Charmed Ones trio as being much more equal in witch powers and that balm to actors, face time and dialog lines for the last five years of the series were much more fair and balanced. // FrankB 01:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Production

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27hVYsC_kcc&t=59s
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm4W32qJAgc

1. https://open.spotify.com/episode/79GoZUYLP6xSJ2OezBJbgf?si=n3gXyqWDRBOnCqiEW7buNA&nd=1&dlsi=ace9f7b3ddf94137
2. https://tvline.com/gallery/charmed-anniversary-photos-biggest-moments-prue-death-phoebe-cole/charmed-season-3-finale/

1. https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/why-did-shannen-doherty-really-leave-the-original-charmed

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:All Hell Breaks Loose (Charmed)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: PanagiotisZois (talk · contribs) 20:33, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: FishLoveHam (talk · contribs) 20:23, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I'll conduct this review FishLoveHam (talk) 20:23, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• "The episode was originally broadcast in the United States on May 17, 2001, on The WB. Written by Brad Kern and directed by Shannen Doherty, "All Hell Breaks Loose" originally aired on The WB on May 17, 2001." Why is this information repeated?
• "of all time" sounds a little in-universe-y, maybe try "the show's most powerful witches" or something.
  • Still in-universe. FishLoveHam (talk) 14:21, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
• "coming out into the public" clunky, reword.
• Remove the comma before "...when Prue and Piper are caught..." and replace "when" with "after".
  • The comma hasn't been removed FishLoveHam (talk) 14:21, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
• "among" → "one of".

Plot

• This plot section is very long for a TV episode, at over 800 words. Wikipedia suggests no more than 400 words for a singular television episode.
  • It's now better, but still crosses over 560 words. FishLoveHam (talk) 14:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
• "personal assassin" → "assassin"
• "find out more information" → "learn more"
• "vanquishing spell" → "a vanquishing spell".
• "At the news station, Elana (Mercedes Colón) shows her crew the footage Prue and Piper vanquishing Shax" missing "of".
• "He arrives at the manor, and tells them they could be arrested because they killed someone on live television." remove comma.
• "to figure out where Shax went" → "in search of Shax".
• "blows him up" reads informally.
  • I changed that, but I'm wondering if maybe I should add a note that Piper has the power of molecular combustion.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:07, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't think it's necessary. FishLoveHam (talk) 15:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
• "Back at the manor" Remove, the previous sentence establishes they are there.
• Introduce Cole.
  • I wasn't sure if simply adding "half-demon boyfriend" is enough.
    • I meant his actor in brackets, you don't need to say he's half-demon. FishLoveHam (talk) 15:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
• "come after him" → "follow him".
• "wo secretly tells his hit-man" → "who secretly tells his hit-man".
• "the point" → "when".
• Remove the comma after "window".

Post-revision comments

• Remove the comma after "who attacks them".
• "Phoebe finds Cole and asks him to come back to the manor"; "come back" → "return".
• Remove "named".
• "Cole's help in getting"; remove "in".
• "Cole ask the Source"; "ask" → "asks".
• "under the condition Phoebe join the dark side"; "condition Phoebe join" → "condition of Phoebe joining"

Production

• Change the quote from "the rough cut for" to "the rough cut" for.
• "when" → "after".
• "lived" → "lives".
• "kill-off" → "kill off" (same with image caption)
• "gave everyone options about what they were or were not going to do" explain this a bit more.
• "not left" → "remained on".
• "in a different manner" → "differently".

@FishLoveHam: In the TV Line source, the following is described:

"Season 3's Kern-penned finale, which ended with all three sisters in mortal danger, "gave everyone options about what they were or were not going to do", he explains. "As an executive producer, my job was to put out a compelling finale. So the cliffhanger ending that would eventually launch us into our fourth season was something I'd been planning on doing no matter what. If the network were to say 'You're keeping your entire cast', I simply would have written a way out of it in Season 4."

Admittedly, Kern doesn't exactly say in this section of the source that the Doherty-Milano feud is what resulted in Doherty's departure and Prue's death. I guess when he says that a cliffhanger ending "gave everyone options about what they were or were not going to do", he was most likely referring to the actresses and/or producers. That whether the Charmed actresses chose to leave or stay, or whether the show's producers took it upon themselves to keep all three of them or fire one of them—which they did—all outcomes could be accomodated by this episode's ending.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Can't this be explained in the article itself? FishLoveHam (talk) 15:27, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Reception

• "prime time" → "prime-time".
• "time period" → "period" or "time".

• Neither of these have been addressed. FishLoveHam (talk) 14:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

References

• Ref 1 says "pp. 152–53" change to "pp. 152–153" for clarity.
• Sources are archived

Spot-check

• [1] Y
• [4] Y
• [6] a. Y b. Y c. Y
• [9] Y
• [11] Y
• [14] Y
• [16] Y
• [19] Y

Other

• Images: Y
• Broad & summary style: Overly long plot
• Neutral: Y
• No OR/COPYVIO: Y 18% Earwig
• Stable: Y

Thank you so much for picking up this review @FishLoveHam:! I'll try to address your comments as quickly as I can, but it might take me a couple of days.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 17:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

No problem, take your time! :) FishLoveHam (talk) 17:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Hey @FishLoveHam:. I've made revision to the article. I've added one more source and some content, changed the infobox image, reworked the second-last sentence from the "Production" section, and trimmed down the plot synopsis. PanagiotisZois (talk) 14:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The new infobox image's caption is quite long, can it be trimmed? FishLoveHam (talk) 22:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@FishLoveHam: I've trimmed down the "Plot" section to just 475 words, and also shortened the infobox image's caption. I've also made a few changes to the lede about the Charmed Ones being powerful witches, but if that sentence is still "in-universe", I truly don't know how else to change it. PanagiotisZois (talk) 11:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@PanagiotisZois "the most powerful" can be changed to "the show's most powerful", and if you can give me a reason why the plot section should be extended for this episode I'll overlook it. FishLoveHam (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Saying "the show's most powerful" seems redundant. It's a broad synopsis of the what the show is about. Is the issue that someone might read it, think witches are real, and believe that the Charmed Ones exist and are the most powerful witches? I mean, I can change it to "the show's most powerful witches", but it does seem unnecessary. PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:43, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

This is too small to continue arguing about, it should not be written in-universe but I'll let it slide under the plot synopsis reasoning. FishLoveHam (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

All right, I've trimmed the plot synopsis a bit more, but that's it. If I remove anything more, I'm afraid certain things will not make sense; like removing Prue's worries about Shax not being dead facilitating her and Piper going to the hospital to get Dr. Griffiths. I guess only someone who's never seen the episode/show could confirm if the "Plot" section makes sense. PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Since it's a series finale, I'll allow an extended word count, even if its fifty words over. FishLoveHam (talk) 20:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Progress

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Kimikel talk 04:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that "All Hell Breaks Loose", the last episode of Charmed to feature Shannen Doherty as Prue, was also directed by her?

• Source: https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/shannen-doherty-beverly-hills-90210-star-dies-53-1236071496/

• ALT1: ... that Shannen Doherty was fired from Charmed shortly before her last episode "All Hell Breaks Loose" aired because of an ongoing feud with co-star Alyssa Milano? Source: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2023-12-19/charmed-shannen-doherty-fired-alyssa-milano-holly-marie-combs
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?

Improved to Good Article status by PanagiotisZois (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

PanagiotisZois (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC).

• Hi PanagiotisZois, outside of my usual area but always good to look at new stuff (though I think I remember watching this episode the first time around), review follows: article promoted to GA on 10 October; not an expert on TV show sourcing but they look to be reliable and citations are inline throughout; I didn't pick up on any overly close paraphrasing in a spot check on sources; I am a little hesitant on ALT1 as the source cited didn't include any comment from Milano, we only get Doherty's side, it is also perhaps a little negative for a WP:BLP (Doherty died this year but Milano is alive). ALT0 is fine and checks out to sources cited, so happy to approve that one. A QPQ has been carried out, article was pulled and re-reviewed but I think the amount of effort put into the original review justifies it counting - Dumelow (talk) 07:41, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
  • @Dumelow: Thank you for the review. Based on your comments I agree the second hook isn't very appropriate. I guess I was too focused on making an interesting hook, and ended up making a sensationalistic one instead. Given Doherty's passing, it would be in bad taste. Regarding the first hook, I was just wondering if we can make a few small changes, if you think it'd be better. What if we also linked Prue's article and included the character's last name in the hook? PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi PanagiotisZois, feel free to submit an amended hook. A word of warning, the more links you put in the hook the fewer readers will click through to your main article - Dumelow (talk) 13:14, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, that's true. Hadn't thought of that. I guess it's also better to have hooks not be longer than they need to be. OK, in that case, leaving it as is works fine.PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)