Talk:Alfajor

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This page is horrible

no troll

A year later, and this page still needs a LOT of work.

There is a lot of repetition. There are abrupt transitions from one point to the next, in some cases before the first point was even fully elaborated.

As a start, the article would be improved by forming a section specifically discussing alfajores de Medina Sidonia and distinguishing that protected legal designation from other forms of alfajores. In its current version, the article places too great an emphasis on alfajores of Medina Sidonia as being 'the only true' kind of alfajor, which is hardly a neutral position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dezastru (talk • contribs) 03:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's true

Argentinian and Uruguayan alfajores have nothing to do with the Peruvian ones.

Most notably?

I think it's a little silly to say that Peruvian alfajores are more notable than Argentine or Uruguayan alfajores. I've lived in all three countries and in my opinion alfajores occupy a much larger place in the national conversation in Argentina than in Peru. Can you support that alfajores come "most notably" from Peru? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.220.242 (talk) 17:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's true

... dulce de leche is not a form of jam so i just changed the order of the words and know it sounds good and is basically saying the same thing, plus they have an article about dulce de leche so they can go and read it to find out what it is. Those are so good, i just eat like 4 today from a peruvian restaurant where they sell pollo a la brasa!--CesarCossio 08:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC) Peruvian alfajores are coated with powder sugar.[reply]

Jam???

Its most basic form consists of two round sweet biscuits joined together

with a sweet jam, generally dulce de leche (milk jam).

Dulce de leche = jam?? Perhaps my Spanish and English are failing me (I am a native speaker of the latter), but I do not consider dulche de leche a kind of jam, not even "milk jam" --Iustinus 07:48, 26 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're right ,Iustinus,.--AleG 20:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC) I`m argentinian.[reply]

Censorship

It seems I keep on editing this category with more academic based material and someone keeps on censoring it. Alfajores are not native to South America. They are a Spanish creation, and we can even traced their origins to the moorish nuggats brought to Spain with the Muslin invasion. The Latin American version are not only popular in Argentina, Uruguay and Peru, but are in fact found all over South American and Central America and Mexico, in their unique form that perhaps resemble the orginal alfajores much more then the Argentinians and Uruguayans. You can visit www.alfajores.blogspot.com for a more accurate history. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Splitbean (talk • contribs).

The best alfajores, worldwide, come from the southern cone and Peru. Have you ever actually compared those with the Central American alfajores? Bleagh! Seriously, there's a reason as to why Peru and the southern cone are generally known for their alfajores.--[|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] (talk) 13:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's true, the Alfajor has arabic origins (even the name!). But they became worldwide known from the products made in the South America, and more specially in the Southern Cone and Peru. You are wellcome to add information about the origin of the Alfajor.

Regarding censorship, your edits to the External Links have more to do with an less-relevan Alfajor link. The only information you added to the article ([1]) was a Copyright Violation of this page. I don't know if you wrote that text, but we can't include a copy of it in here as it is. Hope you can understand. Good wiking, Mariano(t/c) 07:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am the author of the article, so it is not a violation. In reference to your comments, the link to my Alfajores page keeps on disappearing while the Havanna page still remains. I understand that if you grew up in the Southern Cone then you would think that Alfajores propagated the world from that region, but trust me, Mexico, Nicargua, Venezuela, The Canary Islands, Andalucia, all probably think the same. After all, alfajores spread from Andalucia not the Southern Cone, and though Argentina, Peru, Chile Uruguay and Brazil have over 25 different types of alfajores combined, it is not the place of origin. As Graduate of Latin American History I like to give credit where it is just, and what I am getting at is that no country or region has the right to claim the Alfajor as originating in said country or region if it is not historically correct. After all, we would not give Ireland or Russian claims to be the birthplace of potatoes when we know very well that they originated in the Peruvian Highlands. We would not give Italy claims to the tomato when we it is well documented that Tomatoes are native to Meso-America. We don't give Colombia the right to claim coffee as native product when we well know what Coffee is native to Ethiopia. I feel if you are going to allow the Havanna link, you should rightfully allow the link to http://www.splitbeancoffee.com/page4.html because though our Alfajores are Peruvian they are after all one of the Children of the Spanish Alfajor from the Huelva Region of Spain.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Splitbean (talk • contribs).

To prove you are the author, we should receive at least an email from the Split bean site confirming this (normal procedure, sorry). Secondly, the statements (some not entirely widely accepted) should be backed up with sources. Secondly, I did not remove your link, I just changed to a inner link related only to the Alfajor and not to other products of Splin Bean, which I still consider advertising.

I never said Alfajores were Latin American. It's true I'm not sure about the popularity of Alfajores in other countries northern of Peru, but I've been to most of the Spanish speaking countries (missed a couple of islands) and I never got the feeling they could be as popular as they are in the Southern Cone, specially in Uruguay and Argentina.

It would be nice to have some figure of national alfajores production for different countries. Mariano(t/c) 06:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So, you consider the link to Split Bean Coffee advertising and the link to Havanna non-advertising? I don't get that logic. Again, the Alfajores in other Latin American Countries do not resemble the Alfajores from Argentina. If I recall correctly even the alfajores in Argentina do not resemble eachother. In other Latin American Countries, the alfajores are more true to the Original Alfajor from Andalucia, which you have so devalued as "the other type" in your last paragraph. More respect should be given to the True Alfajor, the grandfather of all alfajores in latin america. In Mexico they are made with just coconut, and are normally a tri-color coconut confection, in Nicaragua, they follow more in the lines of the canary island type of alfajores and are made with molasses and different type of grains including corn, and cacao to produce a very rustic type of Andalucia Type of Alfajor. I will be more then happy to email you from my splitbeancoffee.com address if you tell me where. I have a few articles that may enlighten you on the True Migration of these wonderful cookies. Just say where and I will send you the articles and permissions to post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Splitbean (talk • contribs)

Yes, I consider www.splitbeancoffee.com advertising and www.havanna.com.ar/data/Productos/alfajores.htm not. That's why I changed the SpletBeanCoffee link to point to this page, that is actually Alfajor reated.

We should probably break the article into different sections that would describe the different kinds of existing alfajores, as well as a history review of them.

What you tell me here is all very interesting, and it would be very good to have it in the article. I undestand you will probably not have references for all your data, but being a present topic I trust details will be corrected by local editors.

Regarding SplitBeanCoffee copyright permition, I ask you to send me first a mail using the Wikipedia, to which I will answer you giving you my email address, inorder for you to be able to send me a copyright release from the splitBeanCoffee site. Sorry for the bureaucracy!

Good wiking, Mariano(t/c) 11:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In Need of References

The article is, well, nice and all, but without specific references the whole thing is just a bunch of possibly fake statements that could also be possibly true. If anybody can fix that, then by all means go ahead and do that.--[|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] (talk) 13:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image in template

The images must be descriptive. This image is only by Spain's alfajors (only one country), but this type of alfajors is typical of several countries (Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Perú Uruguay, etc.). Ferbr1 (talk) 12:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You need another article for your sweet, alfajor is a millenarian product, argentinian alfajor only share the name and they are known to be a variation taken to america by the colonists and made completely different due to the lack of ingredients. They are two productos totally different. Rafax (talk) 15:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are talking about a variation with a different meaning, i rollback. ^[1] Rafax (talk) 16:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but they are not a "real" alfajor (the Spain's alfajor?) and "fakes" alfajors. put it that is discriminatory. Also, the spanish alfajor is not most important than latinoamerican alfajor. If a variety is present in more countries, it is necessary to look for an identical image to this situation. Ferbr1 (talk) 18:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I never meant american alfajors are less important, i mean they are a completely different thing and they need their own article and so has been referenced. I dont know if they are real or not, i used a valuable reference, not my opinion. Rafax (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article is not neutral: is clearly hispanocentric. The image is not illustrative. The sources have really poor quality. Ferbr1 (talk) 20:20, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What sources have poor quality? tell me if you will and i'll fix them. The article is based in the alfajor, argentinian alfajores are a variation of the millenarian alfajor and a product that has absolutely nothing to do with the alfajores from the iberian peninsula, and apart from needing their own article, they are still being treated here, what do you mean by claiming that the article is hispanocentric and how do you expect a variation of a completely different product to be treaten? Rafax (talk) 21:20, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://www.um.es/tonosdigital/znum18/secciones/estudio-12-alaju.htm Juan A. Frago Gracia: “La criollización del léxico hispanoamericano hizo que palabras que sólo tuvieron alcance regional en la Península Ibérica se hicieran generales o cobraran una enorme difusión en Indias, circunstancia que se entiende muy bien comparando la suerte que, por ejemplo, han corrido allende y aquende el Atlántico términos como alfajor y maceta, como muchísimos más” (“Variación en la documentación indiana del siglo XVI”, en RFE, LXXII, 1992, p. 409). La forma alfajor, única trasplantada a Las Indias, se mantiene allí vigente, con su significado básico, si bien con variantes semánticas. Recogemos algunas de ellas: “Alfajor ‘golosina formada con dos hojas de masa, similar a la colación, de forma ligeramente cóncava, yuxtapuestas por sus dorsos convexos por intermedio de una porción de dulce de fruta, de leche, turrón, durazno, membrillo, manzana, etc. y cubierto el todo con vidriado’. Voz cuya acepción es general en la Argentina.

Arabic cuisine?

There is no reference in the article that it really is a traditional Arabic confection. Only that the name etymologicaly may derive from the Arabian word for honeycomb, and that the name and product Alfajor is of specific Andalusian origin (which is not identical with Arabic).-- 178.112.75.188 (talk) 13:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not may derive, it does derive. Rafax (talk) 23:58, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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In Australia

La Feliz is a delicious traditional alfajor in Australia Luizdanieldesouza (talk) 10:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New proposal for the origin of the world Alfajor

I cannot prove it with bibliography, but I think it is common sense. I think that in North Africa they are right and the term Alfajor comes from the Arabic al-fajr which means sunrise. It is so called because it was made with the foods that Islam allows to eat at dawn in the time of Ramadan. You can check it by putting "Fajr food" in google. Ebanobre (talk) 01:05, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

French macarons?

So, in the "Europe" section, they describe the macaron, which, as said in the page, differs in shape, ingredients, name, filling and concept, and should not be taken as a counterpart of the alfajor. Should we just delete the French part of the page as to lack of connection with the topic? 89.205.226.158 (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

General Description?

I know nothing about these things (hence why I'm on the page) and I feel like the page doesn't give me much of a real idea of what they are. The opening of the article should try to explain more about what kind of confection it is rather than just saying it's a confection. Give me some idea of what's in it and how it's made. Compare with a page like the one on chocolate chip cookies. Lobuttomize (talk) 07:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

History page

The history page is a complete mess and needs revision. Perhaps someone could find an authoritative paper on it, but that's a bit doubtful.

Recommend complete removal at the moment, as it seems to imply that Alfajores were created by Arabs and somehow brought to South America by some means, but gives no evidence or even a statement that backs it up.

All it has is an anonymous, uncited sentence that implies it originated in a cookbook. 2600:4040:74F8:1700:8C3F:5E6E:93C4:F174 (talk) 04:20, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://www.um.es/tonosdigital/znum18/secciones/estudio-12-alaju.htm Juan A. Frago Gracia: “La criollización del léxico hispanoamericano hizo que palabras que sólo tuvieron alcance regional en la Península Ibérica se hicieran generales o cobraran una enorme difusión en Indias, circunstancia que se entiende muy bien comparando la suerte que, por ejemplo, han corrido allende y aquende el Atlántico términos como alfajor y maceta, como muchísimos más” (“Variación en la documentación indiana del siglo XVI”, en RFE, LXXII, 1992, p. 409). La forma alfajor, única trasplantada a Las Indias, se mantiene allí vigente, con su significado básico, si bien con variantes semánticas. Recogemos algunas de ellas: “Alfajor ‘golosina formada con dos hojas de masa, similar a la colación, de forma ligeramente cóncava, yuxtapuestas por sus dorsos convexos por intermedio de una porción de dulce de fruta, de leche, turrón, durazno, membrillo, manzana, etc. y cubierto el todo con vidriado’. Voz cuya acepción es general en la Argentina.

[1]