Talk:Albanian-Greek border incident

Article deletion

I have noticed the mistakes that this article has because of source related reasons so if you can please correct the issues this article may have. I'm sorry for using a picture out of context but because how hard it is to find sources about this topic it was all I could find. Wilhelm ii0 (talk) 13:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

RS?

I wonder what makes this site https://www.radiokosovaelire.com/ wp:HISTRS. Especially this url https://www.radiokosovaelire.com/gusht-1949-lufte-ne-kufi-me-greqine-perballimi-i-provokacioneve-nga-rojet-kufitare-shqiptare/ lacks any kind of bibliography at all and be hardly considered close to wp:ACADEMIC, wp:SECONDARY.Alexikoua (talk) 03:34, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

There is no way this can be considered WP:RS. Khirurg (talk) 05:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes way. The publisher is the journal Revista Ushtarake and is RS. Radio Free Kosovo, which as explained by Botushali is not an extremist website or w/e, has just taken an article from the Journal and uploaded it online, reason being RU hasn't yet digitized all of its' material.Alltan (talk) 12:17, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Yet again you still need to address those serious issues. Saying that the author is not an extremist isn't an argument to pass the RS threshold: Academic journals always make use of bibliography and inline reference, however this article does not.... as such it can hardly be considered of academic level.Alexikoua (talk) 15:39, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean by "yet again"? Please watch out for WP:CIVIL. Jorgo Qirici is not an extremist, nor is Radio Free Kosovo, nor the Military Journal of Albania. Qirici's article is full of material from the state archives of Albania. And even if he is not an academic that does not make him fail RS. Also see the comment by Maleschreiber as he clarified this pretty well. Alltan (talk) 16:35, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

A self published text republished in a news website is far from wp:RS: no bibliography, no inlines reference, nothing that can be close to ACADEMIC and SECONDARY. In case you can't address the issue; Jorgo Qirici's text, as well as any other text by authors that simply served in the military needs to be removed. Wikipedia is quite clear in the guidelines. Simply claiming that Qirici is the journal without providing concrete evidence isn't enough. Alexikoua (talk) 04:41, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Right, if a source does not use bibliography, it makes it dubious right off the bat. Furthermore, per WP:RS, publishers must pass the criterion for reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, which is not the case here. Khirurg (talk) 04:48, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

I can't find who claimed Qirici is the journal. I don't even understand how my reply can be interpreted that way. I will yet again repeat, the article is RS, and it is published by the Military Journal of Albania. It has however not been digitally posted online like some of the other volumes. Therefore RKI just posted the article for the public to see. All of Revista Ushtarake's articles use bibliography to support their arguments, just as any other reliable source. If one simply reads the article they will see its full of primary reports from the time the events took place. It is a top notch source, and should not be removed without a good reason. Alltan (talk) 10:43, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Removal of map because legend is written in Greek

There is certainly no guideline to remove maps because they are written in language other than English. The map is based on a map by Shroder's work (it's RS). Actually both English and non-English speakers can understand which regions it concerns.Alexikoua (talk) 04:58, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia. You have made the map yourselves, and with all due respect I have no clue what it is trying to portray, primary reason being I don't speak Greek. Why should we expect every reader of this article to be a Greek speaker? Why not just post it on el.wiki? Also, why are we adding material about Vitsi, areas that have nothing to do with Albania? They should just be posted at Operation Pyrsos, which is what the whole Vitsi campaign basically is. Alltan (talk) 10:48, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

It's a map based on a top graded source (map in Shroder's work) and per English wikipedia rules it meets RS (all editors can create maps and this one fits perfectly article such as this one). The reader, whether an English speaker or not, sees how the movements in the Greek-Albanian border area occurred at the time those border incidents were reported. It's a very enlightened feature and helps the reader to understand what happened in the area of operations.Alexikoua (talk) 15:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

You can add 100 sources to the map. It being RS is not the issue. The problem is this is the English Wikipedia, and the viewer can not make out anything on the map except for weird lines and scribbling. You should remove it in good faith, and just make the legend in English. I don't understand why you would not do that. Alltan (talk) 16:04, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

They are not weird lines, in fact those lines show the entry routes towards Greece, and some of those routes came from Albania during the period of operation this article describes. It's very helpful for the reader to see where the operation occurred.Alexikoua (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

That's the problem though. I don't know what the lines or symbols are supposed to represent because I don't speak Greek. How would I even know the map is accurate if I can not verify it due to my language barrier? Alltan (talk) 16:12, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

The map is of poor quality and more importantly it is not understandable for English-speakers. Also, the coloring used for the countries is weird. I do not understand the color choices, conventional colors should be used instead. Ahmet Q. (talk) 17:12, 24 July 2022 (UTC)