Talk:Albania–Yugoslav border incident (April 1999)

Military history: Balkan / European / Post-Cold War CL‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

CL

This article has been rated as CL-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
	European military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Albania Low‑importance

	Albania–Yugoslav border incident (April 1999) is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Kosovo Low‑importance

	Albania–Yugoslav border incident (April 1999) is part of WikiProject Kosovo, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Kosovo on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.KosovoWikipedia:WikiProject KosovoTemplate:WikiProject KosovoKosovo articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Yugoslavia Low‑importance

	Albania–Yugoslav border incident (April 1999) is within the scope of WikiProject Yugoslavia, a collaborative effort to improve the Wikipedia coverage of articles related to Yugoslavia and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.YugoslaviaWikipedia:WikiProject YugoslaviaTemplate:WikiProject YugoslaviaYugoslavia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Serbia Low‑importance

	Serbia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

38 soldiers killed?

Even if we take into account report from the Independent without actual proofs don't you think 38 killed paratroopers is huge? Paratroopers were conducting raids to prevent/cut and/or deny KLA further incursions, mobilizing and attacks over Yugoslav border. Generally speaking this was commando raid which was very successful since it caught enemy by surprise. Stories of tanks and MLRS fire and dozens of Yugoslav casualties are for NPOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.110.250.10 (talk) 12:44, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No because the Yugoslav army hasn't had even the ability to solve militairy problems within their borders --Vinie007 07:51, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, besides the sources provided never mention that 38 soldiers on either side were killed. One article quotes an Albanian commander as saying that "many" Yugoslav soldiers were killed, but he never provides a specific number.

23_editor 11:24, 19 May 2012

Neutrality and verifiability

The source talks about "Serbian positions", "Serbian soldiers", "Serbian shells", "Serbian civilians" &c. I am saddened to see somebody editing [[Military of Serbia and Montenegro]] into a piped link to bolster the argument that it was a Yugoslav thing. bobrayner (talk) 14:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

News web sites which are extensively used as sources in this article frequently use non-encyclopedic terms (colloquialisms?). Referring to Yugoslav positions/soldiers/shells as Serb is similar to describing Soviet soldiers as Russians or Ottoman forces as Turks. I am not familiar with this event and this comment is only my honest opinion about news websites referring to Yugoslav xyz as to Serb xyz.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:11, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Informative title?

I came across this article by accident and hope it still has a few watchers. Is the title informative? If no clear title for the incident has evolved, would at least adding the year of the incident to the title make sense? Or possibly merge with the war article?Pincrete (talk) 15:34, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not too concerned about the article's title, if you can come up with a better title, I'll be willing to see what you've got mate. I'm not sure the year is necessary as we aren't disambiguating it. IJA (talk) 15:38, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and thanks for your recent edits too. IJA (talk) 15:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:23 editor, whilst I understand the need for greater clarity in the title, I wonder whether this is a good choice. Albania–Yugoslav border incident, April 1999 would seem to be better (what/where before when and omit 13th). Pincrete (talk) 19:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Pincrete: Yes, but there were other border incidents in April 1999, notably 8 KLA militants killed and 7 wounded after walking into a VJ ambush on 9 April, intense Serb shelling which left 2–3 dead and 9 wounded on 11 April and the 18 April incident where 5 Kosovo Albanian refugees (including 3 children) were killed after their vehicle crossed a landmine. The first incident is probably notable enough for a stand-alone article, the others not so much, but I'm open to discussion. 23 editor (talk) 21:16, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I wondered about that, would it still not be better as where-what/when ? I dont know about guidelines, but it seems more natural. The towns are probably not sufficiently known or close enough to define the incident. … … ps I'm floating the question, but happy to leave decision with you. Pincrete (talk) 21:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Length of incidents and lack of civilian casualties

The article has a lack of casualties and lists the incident as only occurring over a couple of days, but a month after this, in the same area/villages, two civilians in Albania were killed in the shelling. Clearly this border incident did not just last a few days, shouldn't this be added to the article?

http://movies2.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/052899kosovo-albania.html Procakes (talk) 16:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article's name

I suggest changing the title because this was not an incident. Serb forces purposedly crossed into Albania and opened fire. Therefore, it is misleading. FierakuiVërtet (talk) 21:01, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What name change do you suggest then? Durraz0 (talk) 12:54, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would change the name to Battle of Krumë like it called on Albanian wiki [1] But it's just a suggestion, there could be other names for it NormalguyfromUK (talk) 17:12, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Result

I've restored the stable result parameter - please discuss here and get consensus before changing again. Gugrak (talk) 10:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Albanian and KLA victory version is the stable version. Durraz0 (talk) 12:48, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

no it's not, there's been extensive fiddling over the last 6 months, it's not been stable at all. There is not good sourcing either. Gugrak (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The stable version is the most recent revision of an article that was not affected by an active content dispute or edit war. the active content dispute started with your revert. Durraz0 (talk) 14:01, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's been ongoing warring ( and socking ) over these edits since the start of this year. It's clearly active. Gugrak (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

well then we could say there has been ongoing edit war since this articles inception. the original result was "Albanian win"[2] and it was changed without consensus. Durraz0 (talk) 16:34, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But for years has been stable. there's been ongoing warring on this without any proper sourcing for the changes since late last year.Gugrak (talk) 09:17, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which editor is socking? Durraz0 (talk) 16:35, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Gugrak, the years-long stable version is the "status-quo" one. There are no existing sources confirming a "victory" by either side. If there are, please provide them. EkoGraf (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]