Talk:Alanya

Alanya Werft

I want to add de:Bild:Alanya_Werft.jpg as an image here. How do I do that? Image:de:Bild:Alanya_Werft.jpg|thumb|200px doesn't work. I can't figure it out.

You have to upload it as a new image, or upload it to the Commons. —Khoikhoi 00:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Gallery

A potential Photo Gallery to add at the bottom:

• 
  Historic Alanya
• 
  Cleopatra Beach
• 
  Keykubat Caddesi
• 
  Tersane (Arsenal)
• 
  Kale (Castle)
• 
  Keykubat Beach, along Atatürk Caddesi
• 
  Kızıl Kule (Red Tower)

File:City of Alanya 2022.jpg|thumb|city of Alanya

--Patrickneil 18:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Places of interest paragraph

I'm excited to see someone else editing this page. I moved the places of interest paragraph back under "Architecture". I feel the section on Tourism should deal with the financial and statistical aspects of the industry, not the actual building and sites themselves. I wouldn't want this to feel like a tour guide to the city, but maintain an encyclopedic feel. Thoughts? --Patrickneil 19:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

GA passed

Nice article, good prose (easy to read and compelling) and beautiful images. I passed this article for GA, per WP:WIAGA. Congratulations! There are many things to improve before getting to FA level, though the size is already enough for FA. Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Copyedit is still needed to get the highest possible prose level. Some sentences sounds promotional.
2. Get more references. The current number of references is still low compare to the size. Please find reliable sources, such as academic papers for history, official statistics, etc.
3. Please remove external links in the main article. I spot one.
4. Restructuring to have more standard city article. For instance, Population should be named Demographics and Transportation section does not belong to Economy.

Anyway, it's a pleasure to read this paper. — Indon (reply) — 01:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

About the Atatürk Boulevard

Atatürk Bulvarı (Boulevard) DOES NOT run perpendicular to the sea, it's parallel to the sea. I've edited it. Steeu 22:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Terrorism

While looking for demographics data, I once read about attacks on Kurdish households back in 1996. I can't find that page again, does anyone remember something about this? I'm not sure I want to put it in the article. I've so far left out the detail that al-Qaeda had in 2005 tried to bomb the cruseships, partly because the lack of good news on it, and partly cause I don't know where to put it in the article.--Patrickneil 16:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

World's Longest Cake

I also am not sure if/how/where to note this: Guinness Welcomes World's Longest Cake Baked In Turkey.--Patrick 00:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

it would look stupid in an encyclopedia article IMHO. oh wait, just maybe in the external links section :D85.97.70.172 02:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

in the culture section maybe? Generally cuisine, sports etc stuff could go under there.. But if that will be the only thing that will be in that section, it might look like people are obssessive with cakes or something :) Baristarim 02:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section would be better imo. deniz^T_C 06:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

True.. didn't think of that.. Baristarim 06:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I was hoping to avoid trivia and gallery sections, as they're unencyclopedic. I'll see if I can't integrate more.--Patrick 16:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Well done, Patrick, very nice transition deniz^T_C 22:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

The lead does not appear to adequately summarize the article and the article is under-referenced. These statements need inline citations:

• "Muslims began arriving in the 7th century, and 681 marked the end of a bishopric in Alanya."
• "The area fell from Byzantine control after the Battle of Manzikert to tribes of Seljuk Turks, only to be returned in 1097 by Alexios I Komnenos and forces of the First Crusade."
• "Tourism in the region started among Turks who came to Alanya in the 1960s for the alleged healing properties of Damlataş cave,"
• "Legend and locals claim the name Cleopatra Beach in Alanya derives from either the Ptolemaic princess' visit here or the area's inclusion in her dowry from Mark Antony."
• "it remains one of the finest examples of medieval military architecture."
• "The Tersane, a medieval drydock built by the Seljuk Turks in 1221, 187 by 131 feet, is divided into five vaulted bays with equilateral pointed arches."
• "the Pirates Cave, once used as a refuge by gentlemen of that profession"
• "governor for the district, currently Dr. Hulusi Doğan."
• "Nationally, in the 2002 election, the province voted with the Republican People's Party, who were followed closely by both the Justice and Development Party and the True Path Party."
• "where he chairs the Committee on Migration, Refugees and Population."
• "The area is further known for its many fruit farms"
• "Despite the location, few residents make their living on the sea, and fishing is not a major industry."
• "They are drawn to the area because of reasonable prices"
• "Beginning in 2003, with the provisional elimination of restrictions on land purchases by non-nationals, the housing industry in the city has become highly profitable with many new private homes and condominiums being built for European and Asian part-time residents. This in turn has put pressure on the city's many gecekondu houses and establishments as property values rise. A height restriction in the city keeps high rise hotels to the east and west of the city, preserving the central skyline at the expense of greater tourist potential. The fringes of the city however have seen uncontrolled expansion."

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 10:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was planning on asking for a peer review soon, but this will help too. This week is fairly busy for me, as I'm switching continents, so I'm not sure I'll get it done, but I'll address what I can today. I do note that some of those things listed here are covered by citations for that after the sentence following.--Patrick Ѻ 18:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

As good progress is being made, I'll extend the "on hold" deadline by a week. Epbr123 13:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The few which don't currently have sources will be very difficult to find English sources. If my Turkish was better I might be able to find Turkish ones, but alas. Will keep trying. Is the lead enough now? I don't think I'd mention the sports teams or the government, as there's just not much to say there.--Patrick Ѻ 15:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The lead is fine. Epbr123 16:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, the only phrase of those that I haven't found a reference for is the one about Alanya's gecekondu buildings. If you'd call me out on OR, then it'll have to go.--Patrick Ѻ 00:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

pronunciation

Alanya (pronounced IPA: [ˈælənyːɑ])

I'm skeptical. Judging by the vowels, I guess this is meant for an English pronunciation — so, since when is [yː] English?! —Tamfang (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm skeptical too. [y] is spelled "ü" in Turkish. The spelling "Alanya" implies [ɑlɑnjɑ] but I don't know which syllable is stressed. I'm taking the pronunciation out until it can be confirmed. —Angr 10:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It's written Alanya in turkish.iTS SPELLED alanja, nothing is stressed.

Huh? What's Alanja? I pieced together the IPA when requested to do so by a peer review, basing it on pieces of other words that I knew had the same syllables.--Patrick Ѻ 21:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Turkish pronounciation for Alanya is [alanja] an the "lan" in the middle is stressed. Someone should edit the article as I'm not experienced. 85.98.25.248 (talk) 21:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC) (fixed)

Coordinates for articles in Category:Alanya

I tried to locate the McGhee Center, but its website isn't that helpful. Can you help me with adding coordinates to its article? -- User:Docu

It's located just about at 36.534055, 31.995353. Which is N36.32.02 E31.59.43.--Patrick Ѻ 21:07, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Looks good. Thank you. If everything wasn't that slow right now, [1] should work. -- User:Docu

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Trying to own the article

User:Patrickneil is trying to own the article. He thinks he is the only one who may take photographs of the city and know the best about the city. He always tries to be the last who edited the article. MULAZIMOGLU (talk) 07:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I certainly welcome constructive edits, but if you're going to remove a paragraph, give a reason on the talk page, or at least in the edit summary. And just be aware if there are references that may be used more than once. With that paragraph in question, I hope to add a sentence to saying something like "Tourism picked up again in 2010 after suchandsuch..." Remember that this is a featured article, and there are high standards for inclusion on that list, and I'd love your help in keeping it there. Further, I disagree that naming the mayor's political party is NPOV, or that there isn't a growing European presence, and will revert what I feel are nonconstructive deletions of sourced information.

I also don't appreciate the way you've tried to portray me and the three years of work I've put in here as irresponsible, and it seems like you're targeting my files intentionally, simultaneously claiming there are "Too much images in the article" while adding several of your own. Any images I've removed, have been because we have a better one, or because the ones you added were not encyclopedic, like this one File:Dimriver.jpg, which has large black bars on it and an uncitable caption of "Dim River is a good place to enjoy in the hot summer days". I have regularly removed my few photos (6 out of 18) when a better replacement is found, such as happened with the church, peninsula, and downtown photos. Frankly, what we don't need are more tourism photos of the castle, but ones of schools, hospitals, museums, festivals, newspapers or TV studios, soccer pitches, and city government buildings. If you have any of those to add, it would be greatly appreciated. As I mentioned to you earlier, your panorama would be great for the top photo in the infobox if you uploaded a large version.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 15:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a project that you edit and present it to the world. Even you work on an article for years; that article is not owned by you. Once again all the editors have the right to edit the article just like you. You are not the owner. You may like your pictures but that does not mean that the article will be full of your images right. People do not have to see Alanya from the point of view from places you visited. Am i clear? Pls respect. I am not fulfilling the article of your hometown with my images and sentences. Ozgurmulazimoglu (talk) 17:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't own this or any article, but adding unencyclopedic photos and removing sourced information from a Featured Article will usually be unacceptable. Please understand that my actions on this page are in no way personal. You'll notice that my edits today did not just undo yours, but tried to integrate some of the changes. Perhaps we can go over the things you deleted one by one.

• What's wrong with noting the mayor's political party? I think noting how he switched is a good way of showing a political change that's taken place over the last few elections.
• What's wrong with saying the European residents have a growing presence? I'm constantly reading about new services directed at them, whether its newspapers and radio, or churches and cemeteries.
• What's wrong with the downtown photo? It was actually the most descriptive city photo we have, and was used on the main page when this was FAotD last year.
• How about using that panorama you found for the infobox photo? I doesn't seem wide enough to warrant the wide image template.
• What's wrong with the McGhee Center photo? Its an institution that makes Alanya somewhat unique from other similar cities.
• What's wrong with the photo of the member of parliament? If you have a better photo for the government section I would love to use it.
• Lastly, what's wrong with noting the cause of the 2006 downturn. It is an event, it happened, and there were reasons for it, even if you don't like noting that violence elsewhere in Turkey played a role.

Please appreciate that I'm not trying to disrespect Alanya, your home, but trying to write a good encyclopedia article. Please review the version I made before you revert for a second time.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 19:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Patrick trying to own the article

He is still reverting the article as he likes. I can not understand why the center he studies has to be in the article's education part. That center has not a great importance in the education of Alanya. Two pictures are too much for this education part. Pls he does not understand this but tell him this article is not his specially owned by him. Thanks.Ozgurmulazimoglu (talk) 08:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I'm trying to address your concerns, and removed the image of the McGhee Center, which wasn't a good image anyways. But remember that just because the spacing looks tight to you, doesn't mean it looks the same on different computers, with different resolutions and different image thumbnail size settings. With education, an image of Akdeniz University out near Konyaaltı might be better than either of those two which we've used. I also have to caution you against reverting a third time. We have a rule here on Wikipedia against it, and it could get you blocked.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 16:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Patrick for telling me a rule about Wikipedia. I have just arrived from Mars. Thanks again. MULAZIMOGLU (talk) 18:46, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you think you could answer me, specifically, what is the issue with mentioning the mayor's current political party in the introduction? Why would it be an issue there, and not in the Government section, which we're trying to summarize above? I made a list in your previous comment here, and if you wanted, you could respond to the issues individually.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 19:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Population data

I am translating the article to pt.wikipedia and I am having trouble understanding what is the origin of the population data, namely in the Alanya district. It's true that http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/rakalanya.asp states that the overall population is about 384,000, but that is so far from the 241,451 we read in www.tuik.gov.tr... I also don't understand what is the origin of the Historical Populations' data on the district. Thank you. --Stegop (talk) 10:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The population table is funky. I'll try to work on it this week. The tuik.gov.tr site is the one I'd recommend using if you're just choosing one. The thing is there's this difference between Alanya the city (şehir merkezi) and Alanya the district of Antalya Province (köyler), with a larger population, as I understand it, living outside the city limits but inside the district limits. So that's why there's two groups, but why the huge differences between the government in Ankara's numbers and the local numbers on other sites, like the municipal one, I can't say. And the historic number is from the Ottoman Census of 1893, but I'm not sure if it should be included because of its different methods or whatnot.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 17:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick reply. Just another question: I had already figured where the numbers from 1893 came, but what about those from 1985 and so on? As far as I see, TUIK only goes back to 2005 or so. Or am I wrong? Excuse for bothering you, but it was such a good surprise to find such a good article on Alanya, that I am thinking that it is worth trying to put my translated version as featured article also and it is a pity that a minor missing source disallows that. It is an interesting coincidence: I had already Alanya on my to-do list because I am visiting the city this year and I didn't know that it was a featured article in en.wp. --Stegop (talk) 20:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The city's site has numbers from 1985, 1990, 1997, and 2000, just to throw some more into the mix. Let me know which numbers you decided to use.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 03:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank's again. --Stegop (talk) 22:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Dead links

In the process of translating the article to pt:Antalya, I noticed the following problems with references. I took the liberty of replacing those I found alternatives and tagging the others with {{dead link}}.

• http://web.archive.org/web/20070824152756/http://www.discoverturkey.com/english/iller/e-antalya.html

Being basically a list, it doesn't serve as reference to much.

• Links replaced because the originals were broken:
  • http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=fishermen-in-alanya-proud-to-be-a-part-of-the-nobel-prize-2009-10-14

Replaced with: http://www.alanyaproperties.com/index.php/en/property-service/latest-news-from-turkey/124-fishermen-in-alanya-proud-to-be-a-part-of-nobel-prize.html

• • http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/05/31/Columns/While.I.Wasnt.Sleeping-2910679.shtml

Replaced with: http://dukechronicle.com/article/while-i-wasnt-sleeping

• • http://alanyaradio.com

Replaced with: http://www.alanyaradyo.com

• Dead or inaccessible links for which I couldn't find archived copies:
  • http://www.atso.org.tr/eng/economy.php
  • http://helloturkeymagazine.com/default.asp?action=icerik&id=79451&lang=2
  • http://www.alanyatelevizyonu.com/contents.asp?MenuCatID=9
  • http://alanya.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=280&Itemid=3
  • http://www.boras.se/inenglish/twintowns.4.1155d9521134d4bd35980008991.html

--Stegop (talk) 19:33, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll try to get on that and see what can be done to fix this up.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 23:29, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

kurds not terrorists--pkk not in alanya!

pkk fighetrs not in alanya! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.191.213 (talk) 14:25, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Turkish v. Anatolian

There seems to be one or two editors this week, or possibly just sockpuppets, who have a problem with the term "Anatolian", which is used in the History section when linking to Anatolian beyliks and in the intro, when mentioning the proportion of European residents. The user(s) just wants it to say "Turkish" or possibly "Turkoman". I think this is a silly place to be bringing up nationalist pride, and I certainly have no interest in demeaning Turkey.

With the beyliks, I have seen the name come under dispute before, and I believe it becomes problematic because there were several historic beyliks that were, at some point, Armenian, Mongol, or otherwise non-Turkish, Alanya actually being one of those for a period. Regardless, in the middle of the sentence its better to just have one adjective, and since the page is still "Anatolian beyliks", I suggest we just use that rather than some redirect. With the introduction, I think the sentence there is using "Anatolian" as opposed to "European", and neither the article nor the intro goes into demographic the breakdown of Turkish, Arab, Kurdish, or other. That doesn't mean it couldn't, but I think that would best go in an additional sentence.

I also not sure if these edits are related, but I believe the climate type in Alanya is still "Continental", which basically just means that parts of the municipality get snow in the winter, and the mountains do get snow. Continental does not refer to the continent of Europe, and is opposed to "Oceanic" climates. Best-- Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 18:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.alanyaproperties.com/index.php/en/property-service/latest-news-from-turkey/124-fishermen-in-alanya-proud-to-be-a-part-of-nobel-prize.html
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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://dukechronicle.com/article/while-i-wasnt-sleeping
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140808042157/http://www.todayszaman.com/news-157559-turkey-has-great-potential-for-triathlons.html to http://www.todayszaman.com/news-157559-turkey-has-great-potential-for-triathlons.html
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722123823/http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/actual.asp?fID=875 to http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/actual.asp?fID=875
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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Alanya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://report.tuik.gov.tr/reports/rwservlet?adnksdb2=&ENVID=adnksdb2Env&report=idari_yapi_09sonrasi.RDF&p_il1=7&p_yil=2010&p_dil=2&desformat=html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-561699
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080216042540/http://www.fivestarhotelsantalya.com/antalya.asp?id=7&baslik=Kalkan to http://www.fivestarhotelsantalya.com/antalya.asp?id=7&baslik=Kalkan
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=133604
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080910004923/http://www.die.gov.tr/yillik/yillik_2004.pdf to http://www.die.gov.tr/yillik/yillik_2004.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080808003051/http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/alanya/tarihiyerler.asp to http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/alanya/tarihiyerler.asp
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-613178
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090426035731/http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=173323&bolum=110 to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=173323&bolum=110
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080808003235/http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/rakalanya.asp to http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/rakalanya.asp
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-610896
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080921162902/http://secim2007.ntvmsnbc.com/default.aspx to http://secim2007.ntvmsnbc.com/default.aspx
• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5qfP588Eb?url=http://www.alanyaproperties.com/index.php/en/property-service/latest-news-from-turkey/124-fishermen-in-alanya-proud-to-be-a-part-of-nobel-prize.html to http://www.alanyaproperties.com/index.php/en/property-service/latest-news-from-turkey/124-fishermen-in-alanya-proud-to-be-a-part-of-nobel-prize.html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-619028
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-629046
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090131101239/http://alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/brothers.asp to http://www.alanya.bel.tr/translationEN/brothers.asp

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Alanya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513112210/http://sunsearch.info/turkey/alanya/sights-information/when-ataturk-visited-alanya/ to http://sunsearch.info/turkey/alanya/sights-information/when-ataturk-visited-alanya/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080519113253/http://www.ekd.de/bulletin/2004/37665.html to http://www.ekd.de/bulletin/2004/37665.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110811071645/http://alanya.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=3 to http://alanya.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=3
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080202174059/http://alanya.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=272&Itemid=1 to http://alanya.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=272&Itemid=1

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External links modified

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I have just modified 3 external links on Alanya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110718140925/http://english.arsiv.yenialanya.com/index.aspx?KatAd=Alanya%20News&KatId=33&Haberim=13338 to http://english.arsiv.yenialanya.com/index.aspx?KatAd=Alanya%20News&KatId=33&Haberim=13338
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080130000157/http://www.ezoptravel.com/html/makale.asp?makale=9 to http://www.ezoptravel.com/html/makale.asp?makale=9
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081014090924/http://alanyaradio.com/ to http://alanyaradio.com/

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Alanyaeastfromtheoldharborpanorama.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:36, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

FA criteria

The article needs a serious amount of updating and suffers from repeatedly stating statistics true at a certain time as timeless truths, such as "The tourist industry in Alanya is worth just under 1.1 billion euros per year"... when? I've added some cleanup tags where a problem was noted. (t · c) buidhe 00:06, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, I helped push this article to FA a decade ago but no, the work has not been done to keep it up to date. A lot of the statistic we used then are very stale, much like my Turkish language skills, so I'm afraid I'm not likely to be able to go though the news for sources like I could then. Thanks for putting in the tags, hopefully it sparks some editors to jump in.-- Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 02:31, 3 November 2020 (UTC)