Talk:Airsoft/Archive 3

This is an archive of past discussions about Airsoft. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Merge with MilSim

All of the stuff stated on the MilSim page could go on this one.

I think this shoudl be seriously considered. Especially given how brief MilSim is. But what if someone does a search for MilSim, should they be directed to airsoft? But MilSim is not only related to airsoft. Believe it or not, MilSim is actually trademarked terminology by Tom Clancey for his games. Those games are considered Mil Sim as well.

Perhaps a better option is to delevop the MilSim article to include all the definitions and uses of it as well as mention it's applications in airsoft. Any thoughts? [[[User:Ganninia|Ganninia]] 07:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)]

I think I have to agree with you on that. I guess we need someone to expand MilSim to recognize the Tom Clany aspect. I think the term maybe also be used in paintball. 65.197.192.130 23:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC) PS: Should the merge tag be taken off now? 65.197.192.130 11:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

MilSim should probably be a disambig page, linking to the MilSim section here, an article (if there is one) about the Clancy side of things, and if need be, the Paintball article. There's no need for a seperate article about the airsoft game type since it is already detailled here. -Madbrood 12:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I have expanded the article milsim and think that the tags should be removed now does anyone agree?

General Page Concerns

Sample airsoft laws from around the world. What is the criteria?

The airsoft article describes legal related info at the "Sample airsoft laws from around the world" about several countries regarding the practice of airsoft. After reading it I've questioned what is the criteria being used to extract information from article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft ? In my opinion only good examples should be stated at the main article. A good example should be the one(s) that best defend airsoft sport practice and not the one(s) that best avoid/limit airsoft. Comments?

Whatever we decide to do, I think the section should be trimmed; it is supposed to be a sampling, after all. The main article is where everything is supposed to be. --UNHchabo 06:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Want Some Help

I really don't know where else to put this so I will add it here. Would the user UNHchabo please e-mail me at I would like to talk with you about some of the editing work regarding airsoft. Nothing bad ;) Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Revenant47 (talk • contribs) 21:26, October 10, 2006.

E-mail sent. :) --UNHchabo 03:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Minor Edit

Added mention of Spies and Mercs variation Russianmissile 06:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Article or section does not cite its references or sources

Well it did have this section until 00:14, 9 May 2006 Mboverload just removed it. Sometimes too much cleaning equals loosing...

What more is needed here? I have added sources for the last two requests. Doncommie 15:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Opinion vs. Fact

Opinion vs. Fact checked and it's pretty "clean" as of today. Even the External Links comments have been stripped of adjectives like "Good" or "Popular". Jonathonbarton 21:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

The article is becoming a regular target for vandals, who are removing existing material and inserting references to their favoured products and websites. I am surprised that not all airsoft enthusiasts want this article to reflect the diversity of preference and opinion on the sport. I ask the people who deleted existing material and added their own to reconsider. Try adding your material without deleting the existing material. I'm sure all other users will respect your links and favourite manufacturers if you respect theirs. Wulfilia 16:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Photos

I'm currently waiting on a good gameplay picture from one of my online friends to be free licensed. Once she does that, it'll pop up near the top of the article. Useless Fodder 19:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking out the photo up top, as it shows players with no eye protection. Even though it makes note that this is dangerous, it still sets a bad example. I'd rather have a photo that shows players in action, and says note the eye protection. I will upload a photo showing just that, and put it in the article. Until then, this one is going down. (on a side note, the photo I upload will be either public domain or GFDL, not copyrighted) --UNHchabo 17:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. You guys like the new photos? Say what you think of them! Also, if anyone can think of a way to make the middle look good with the content I added, I'd appreciate the help. --UNHchabo 20:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of changing the image a few days ago as I too thought it did make someone who has just visited the article think that wearing no eye protection is commonplace. Went to change it and it seems I was beaten to it! Nice one. -Tankeh 18:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you think your photo would be better as the first thing people see of Airsoft, then go ahead and change it, I'm not claiming a monopoly on this article or anything. ;) I had free time yesterday, so I just changed it right away. --UNHchabo 19:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll be adding some photos from my personal collection as soon as I figure out how... :) Jonathonbarton 21:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The first photo does not display mil-sim, in mil-sim players use other military gear to simulate real military situations. This means webbing, rucksacks, holsters, radio equipment and eaven authentic vehicles. Contact me please as I have no idea how to add them here and I can supply you with a LOT better picture(s) regarding mil-sim. egon[dot]ottokar[at]mail[dot]ee

Please, note that the use of real-world equipment does NOT constitute a milsim game or milsim player. The vast majority of players at my local site have realistic loadouts, not because we play milsim (far from it), but because it simply looks the part :) -Madbrood 12:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The relationship between the airsoft, air gun and BB gun articles ("The Merger")

I think there is too much overlap between these three articles. When one looks for information on a particular aspect of this topic, one sometimes finds it scattered across all three.

After 7 Months of discussion the consensus seems to be somewhere between "Oppose merge" and "Strongly Oppose Merge". Suggestion removed. Jonathonbarton 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Should we also remove the merge links from airsoft pellets, airsoft guns and airsoft equipment? There is a lot of information in each of them (or will be once all related articles are fully expanded with information). --Jaredballou 13:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I was considering doing just that, Jared...but I wanted to put in a little work on the pages and get more familiar with them, what content is currently there, and what content could ultimately be placed there before removing the Merge Links from the top...but you're probably right... The Merge isn't going to happen, and we can decide whether Merging the "ancillary articles" has any merit as part of a completely seperate discussion... Jonathon Barton 18:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Gas Guns

I edited the section about gas airsoft guns, it just didn't sit right with me- too much "popular" and "high-power" talk with not citation. Also, not all gas guns are "high-power". Have revised it with note about realistic operation and effect of low temperatures. -Madbrood 12:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Airsoft Equipment Section Comments

I moved the section on guns to a seperate article, Airsoft equipment. It's not a very good article at the moment, as I simply moved everything straight over. The article could use some help right now.

Roger... I'll assist as I can... Jonathonbarton 21:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

AEG Definition

Every company I've seen that makes AEGs has the A standing for "Automatic". Check out TM's site. They call the AEPs "Automatic Electric Pistols". I have not seen a single item saying "air" except for a few gun boxes, and that's likely in order to get through Customs. Check the websites. --UNHchabo 04:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Verified and confirmed updated. Jonathonbarton 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

8mm BB information removal?

Almost everyone knows that 8 mmm airsoft is minority in global airsoft comunity. Based on energy tables we can see that energy levels resulting from 8 mm pellet usage makes almost impossible airsoft practice in a secure way. For this reason I would like to know what others think about a possible removal of all 8 mm information from the article. Another option would be to create a 8 mm airsoft article. -anonymous

8mm might be a minority, but it exists, and it's a not-insignificant minority. Additionally, with the release of the 8mm Marushin M-1 Garand, 8mm is gaining traction in the WWII Airsoft segment. Further, Marushin has started producing (Summer 2006) a .28 gram 8mm BB, which puts the 8mm in the same delivered-energy ballpark as modestly upgraded 6mm airsoft replicas. 8mm should stay as a reference. Jonathonbarton 16:55, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Just a note a 8mm BB has 33% more surface than a 6mm, it desaccelerate faster that 6 mm pellet due to higher drag. It is true that you can put 8mm in the same delivered-energy but that is only true if same weight and velocity were used. For example firing a 300fps 6mm .28g pellet and a 300fps 8mm .28g, 6mm will always have a better range because it has less surface => less drag. So at the end 8mm would only make sense if higher energy would used, but that way you will seriously passing 2 Joules. -anon

I'll post some of the ballistic info (charts) I have when I get home and can access it. Surprisingly (and somewhat counter-intuitively), when you talk about "range" in airsoft, you're talking a matter of 10-20', whether it's the difference between a 6mm BB at 400FPS vs. a 6mm BB at 550FPS (2.82 joules), or a 6mm BB .28g BB at 350 FPS and an 8mm .28g BB at 350 FPS. The higher the velocity, the drag goes up *exponentially*, not *linearly*. A 6mm BB .2g bb shot at 550FPS is down to a fairly mild 350 FPS within 60'. So, "range" is literally a matter of 4-5 steps difference in most cases. If you can't reach him, rush him - THEN reach him. But that's a discussion that's not relevant to an encyclopedic entry. Jonathonbarton 21:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your point-of-view, but you must understand that the example you state of "550 fps down to 350 fps within 60'" can be also understood by many people that its safe to use such energy parameters. It is important as encyclopedic entry and also educational to refer that until it reaches 60', such fps using 6mm or 8mm are not safe. -anon

I think you're confusing the Talk Page (talk about the *content* of the article) with the Article itself. The OP in this discussion asserted that 8mm should be removed because:

8mm is a minority.
8mm is simultaneously impossible and impractical to safely skirmish with. (If you shoot 8mm fast enough to not be outranged by 6mm, it's got too much energy to be safe, and if you shoot with safe energy, you'll be outranged by 6mm.)

To which, I am merely rebutting:

This is an ENCYCLOPEDIC article, and should make at least some small attempt to be both inclusive and comprehensive. Just because there aren't *many* 8mm replicas out there does not mean that they should be excluded from mention altogether.
There are extremely skirmishable 8mm replicas out there for those that want to use them. They suffer from neither an abundance of energy when used with a .28g BB, nor to they suffer from lack of range compared to 6mm.
Whether you can use a replica for Skirmishing is not the be-all-end-all litmus test of discussing airsoft replicas in an encyclopedic article about the replicas and the games both. An example would be Asahi "Blade Bullets". Had they been more widespread in the history of airsoft, Asahi "Blade bullets" would have a place in the article, despite being something you would not *ever* want to be shot with.

My discussion above regarding loss of FPS over distance is just a footnote to the rebuttal of the statement "6mm will always have a better range because it has less surface => less drag." - specifically, I rebut with "Well, yeah, the 6mm will have about ::10 feet:: more range...the difference is small enough to be irrelevant in most situations."

Make sense? Jonathon Barton 18:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

=== "Hop-up" ===the hop up determines the guns aim. it is ajustable if u open up the gun. the hop-up can make the bb go up or down depending upon how you ajust it.

I was redirected here from hop-up, even though this article doesn't actually mention the terms anywhere. Since I know nothing about airsoft weaponry, I'm not even going to try and add that bit - but if it redirects here, it ought to be mentioned... Tyrhinis 22:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll change the link on hop-up to point to Airsoft_equipment as it is a feature of some equipment. A short reference in the airsoft replicas section might be appropriate as it is a very prevalent and important feature. --86.2.122.189 16:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Small Blurb and reference to longer article added. Jonathonbarton 21:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Airsoft Gameplay Section Comments

IRONMAN?

Removed. I've been active in the Airsoft Community for close to 5 years, and have only ever heard of "Ironman" airsoft in an anecdotal context, and only as "rumored" in Asia. Lots of people have seen the picture of the asian guy with holes all over his face, but the veracity of that picture has never been established as being authentically caused by airsoft. Jonathonbarton 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

at close range I've seen it happen (strictly speaking it was a violation of the 'no live fire within 5 metres', but it was an accident, not intentional), the 'victim' had a pretty big bloody dent in his cheek, bled like you wouldn't believe too. So yes, it can happen, at close range, with a gun rigged to fire at exactly 350 fps. (Higher is not allowed at that site - at least not for AEG's), though it's not that common. Kluner.net 00:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Airsoft Safety Precautions Comments

Airsoft Safety concerns

I started airsoft this year and i've had my fair share of bruises. I was wondering, how much FPS does it take to punch through human skin? Is it true that people can be come crippled if they took a direct hit in the knee? Once upon on a time I was going airsoft with forty other players. Of course the ground rules are that everyone must wear of eye protection and assault rifles should not shoot over 400FPS. This is in Thailand. Well, i was wearing a face mask because i'm rather concerned about getting shot in the face. Unfortunately the face mask didnt work too well. I was shot in the face ten meters away and i got bruised. Strangely, my face mask wasn't penetrated but my face was bruised. How could this happen? -Philip

It depends - UK Home office ballistics put the figure at 1.38 joules - Around 350-360 fps, while RoI Studies put it at 2 Joules 400+ . As for the crippling, Unless you are firing an INSANELY upgraded gun (and I mean past all conventional and custom upgrades) there would be the slightest chance this might happen . But this is almost nigh on impossible. you might jump around and clutch your knee from the hit of a stock gun, but it's very unlikely it'll leave more than a welt. As for the face mask, you'd have to show us the make/model. Was a paintball mask, or an Airsoft mask? -Alex (Bobthelumherjack[at]gmail.com)

like Alex said, it would require a realy powerfull gun, and at really close range too. I've seen it happen only once (see under IronMan on this page) and that was at a range of 2 metres or so. Range is mostly your friend in such matters, because BB's are so light, and have so little mass, they tend to lose velocity and kinetic energy really fast through friction with air. The guy I know who did got hurt recovered very nicely in no time at all. It was just a miniscule tear in his skin, right above a bloodvessel, which looks bad, but the bruising and wound have completely disapeared in days. (just make sure you have some form of iodine ready to clean the wound). He was only wearing protective glasses by the way, not a full-face mask. Kluner.net 07:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Comparisons With Paintball Comments

Omit the Airsoft vs. Paintball part of this article...the controversy serves no useful purpose within the article. Alternately, taking a lead from user -b, add a discussion of "Airsoft vs. Real Airguns," i.e. the kind that shoot metallic ammo (my opinion). Seriously, I'm sick to death of people muddling up 6mm airsoft rounds with diablo pellets and genuine BBs--which only come in 4.5mm, otherwise they'd be BBBs or Bs, see? Even Amazon.com is confused on this score. Can't there be a better term for 6mm plastic rounds?

I have replaced nearly all references to "Pellet" with the term "BB" to reflect my airsoft experiences over the last 5 years. I've *never* heard them routinely called pellets by any group in the US or UK, or any english-speaking (typing?) forum user from another country. I also clarified in the opening paragraphs of the article that "airsoft guns shoot 6 or 8mm spherical plastic pellets (called BBs)" - hopefully making it clear to all that they are *not* the same as traditional wasp-waisted metal pellets. Currently the AvP discussion is pretty straightforwad with no Non-neutral POV, thanks to Doncommie!Jonathonbarton 19:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I chopped airsoft vs paintball down and renamed it to the less suggestive "comparisons with paintball". --Doncommie 17:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Well Done! Jonathonbarton 21:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The section Airsoft projectiles was conflicting with this by constantly refering to them as pellets. "often called "BBs" is hardly accurate, they are always called BBs, on all packaging, weapon manuals and by the players themselves. If pellet is used in this article it should only be in a sentence that clarifies they are actually called BBs. It has been suggested and generally agreed that BB should stand for "Ball Bullet", which is a fairly good idea although everyone will only use this if anyone asks what the acronym means. Doncommie 15:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Legal Issues Comments

China?

An ANON inserted that it is rumored that Airsoft has been made illegal in most of China. Can we determine it one way or the other and eliminate saying rumored?

Airsoft is not illegal in most parts of China and are widely sold/used on the streets. In fact, there is alot of Chinese airsoft guns, made by manufacturers such as CYMA and WELL. These airsoft guns are similar to Japanese AEG's and called "LPEG's", or "Low Price/Power Electric Guns".

Officially illegal in China mainland. It is essentially an underground sport, and local authorities turn a blind eye to it. This enables the sport to flourish within the country, and market stalls and shops to openly sell airsoft, despite the official legality situation. It is legal, or at least referred to as a 'grey area', in China's SAR's (Special Administrative Region's of China, such as Macau and Hong Kong), where it is a very openly popular sport. I treat Taiwan as a separate issue. In Taiwan it is legal. Special bob 07:31, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Verifiable? Where? Jonathon Barton 13 June 2006

Good, because Taiwan is a seperate nation. John 27AUG2006

Malaysia?

Full size replica weapons in Malaysia are illegal. Pretty much goes along similar guidelines as in neighbouring Singapore. What are legal, and openly sold however, are Mini-AEG's, the half size, obviously plastic, toy versions of Automatic Electric Guns (mini MP5's, AK-47's, etc). Presumably this is because they do not look like the real thing and are then not considered replicas. Special bob 22:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

A pattern seems to be emerging in South East Asia - That is, regardless of its legal status, locals pretty much find any they can to buy, import, sell and use airsoft products. What also follows is that local authorities are either unaware or turn a blind eye to these practices. What I come up against alot is "It is not illegal - I can buy it in a shop, or I can buy it at a market stall. Ergo it is legal". Which is simply not the case, and if you are caught, you are faced with fines, imprisonment and obviously confiscation of your airsoft toys. -Anon

Singapore?

Could any Singaporean confirm those statements are true? I have never seen any shop selling airsoft guns in Singapore. --BorgQueen 17:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

There used to be shops in Singapore selling airsofts, or LPEGs. However, the government banned any sales/usage of airsoft after an injury incident whereby a kid was shot in the eye.

I can't speak officially, but this comes from the RedWolf Airsoft FAQs:

"Where do you ship? We ship all over the world; from Alaska to Russia. For countries where there exist requirements regarding the appearance of airsoft guns, we will perform the appropriate modifications prior to shipping. For countries and cities where airsoft is illegal, shipping is at the customer's own risk and RedWolf Airsoft Specialists will not be held liable for seizures by customs. Examples include Australia, Singapore, Korea, and Indonesia." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.92.237.76 (talk • contribs) 23:07, 24 October 2005 (UTC).

Private usage, importation and ownership of airsoft in Singapore is illegal. Legal usage is through a recognised gun club (Airsoft guns are treated in the same way as real firearms - Listed under Controlled Items, paperwork, licence, required etc), such as Airsoft Asia, and the only available discipline for airsoft (in this instance) is IPSC. Prior to this there was one skirmish field and one airsoft shooting Range, in Marina Bay (Under Universal Archery). Both have since disappeared. AFAIK, Airsoft Asia are the only club licenced to import airsoft products into Singapore. (I cannot speak officially, nor am I Singaporean, but I have been to Airsoft Asia and spoken with the staff, and also to the Range at Marina Bay (and discussed situation with the staff) when it was still operating) Special bob 07:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Yep, Special Bob is right... getting airsoft here is like getting jeans in Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War... thru' the black market... Charlie

Taiwan?

Given the political and legal situation, it would be best to treat Taiwan as a separate case, for clarity with regards to airsoft (to clarify - this should be kept away from any political discussions regarding soveriegnty/independence/etc issues).
Taiwan (ROC) treats airsoft, and the (booming) airsoft industry as completely legal.
By comparison, China (PRC), regards airsoft as illegal. IIRC, the airsoft factories in China are within the SAR's and so do not fall foul of the PRC's law in this regard.
Representatives from airsoft manufacturers in Taiwan were in Europe last year for distribution talks, and its legality in Taiwan was under no doubt.
I feel its better to treat these regions (China PRC, Taiwan ROC, SAR's: Macau and Hong Kong) as separate entities to help clarify for everyone else unaware of (or unable to understand) the differences between these places.

Special bob 22:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Airsoft is NOT illegal in most parts of China and are widely sold/used on the streets. In fact, there is alot of Chinese airsoft guns, made by manufacturers such as CYMA and WELL. These airsoft guns are similar to Japanese AEG's and called "LPEG's", or "Low Price/Power Electric Guns".

Sigh.

That airsoft is produced in China is not in dispute.

The question was whether airsoft was legal in Taiwan (ROC). Not the PRC.

Anyone who's ever dipped their toe into airsoft in the last two years will know that WELL and CYMA are examples of Chinese-manufactured airsoft. The term LPEG was only coined in the west fairly recently and is not exclusive to these manufacturers.

OTOH, I suggest you go waving an airsoft gun at the ministry of public security and see what they say.

Special bob

Airsoft in Taiwan is legal. I went to a airsoft shop in Taiwan and i saw people firing guns over 350FPS. I think there is a law that all airsoft players gotta be over 18 in Taiwan cuz i'm like the only teenager in that shop. Taiwan is just beginning to become more open to airsoft. My cousin lived in Taiwan ,said that the 1st airsoft guns that were available were Vietnam era M16s and they were spring rifles not AEGs.

US Law & Blaze Orange Tips

I edited the section on US law slightly as it stated that it was a violation of federal law to remove the blaze orange tip. From US Code title 15, chapter 76, section 5001, subsection A: "It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in subsection (b) of this section." (See source 5 for the link.) To translate, it says that it's illegal to sell airsoft guns in the United States without the orange tip, however it says nothing about the end user removing the tip. This is how the law is explained in the "Legal issues in airsoft" article linked on this page. Additionally, for whatever it's worth, I've been playing airsoft for a while now, and one of the first things I did on my rifle was remove the blaze-orange flash hider and replace it with an all-black one, and I've never had a problem with law enforcement. - Kant Lavar 2303 MST, 16 December 2006

Canada?

Replicas are prohibited. Airsoft guns are not replicas, in the sense that they discharge projectiles which can cause severe injury. you wouldnt point a psg-1 to your eyeball. not legal, and not illegal. airsoft sits in the grey area. there is a very active canadian airsoft connunity and several canadian airsoft dealers. i'm going to edit this. 198.166.226.14 20:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Major Airsoft Companies Comments

(Unsigned comments moved from references section of main article by Wulfilia 13:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC))

UTG is not a manufacturer
UTG, and CSI are not manufacturers. IN FACT their product are made by the Chinese factories noted above!

(i.e., in the manufacturers section of the article - Wulfilia 13:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC))

External Links Comments

External Link Removal Notations

I've cleaned up the External Links section, dividing it into Generic, North American, and European sections, and adding a comment in the source that will HOPEFULLY give editors who don't read the Talk Page some guidelines on what should be included, and how... Jonathon Barton 22:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed "www.wgcshop.com/ WGC Shop" as a commercial site. Let me know if anyone has an objection. --BorgQueen 07:56, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

No objections here. The obvious explanation is that WGC must be putting it in, no one else would bother. --Paddy 07:41 3 January 2006

WGC sells very difficult to find airsoft parts and equipment. In all the years I've played airsoft they've had a top notch reputation. It might be commercial, but I wouldn't blame them for it being added. --JBHD

I'm continually removing commercial links from the external links section and they are being continually added back, all by the same few people such as user:cne84 and user:Kaabi. How do we put a stop to this? --[[[User:Ganninia|Ganninia]] 07:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)]

user:kaabi and user:cne84 are unstoppable! I NEED SOME HELP TO GET THE EXTERNAL LINKS UNDER CONTROL. I feel almost that if there is no one that will step to do what I can with the section by adding a specific retailers section. Maybe then someone will notice and stop the nonsense! Please help control the external links SPAM!! [[[User:Ganninia|Ganninia]] 07:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)]

I think the external links section could use some cleanup. One suggestion: maybe separate links by regional orgs vs "sport-wide" sites? --UNHchabo 16:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of external links, according to WP guidelines, is to link to sites that expand the reader's knowledge of the topic being discussed. Just about every link on the page is to a fan site or web forum or club. This isn't supposed to be a directory of links, but to sites providing additional information (only) on the topic. I think these links need to be severely reduced to only those relevant to the topic.Michael Dorosh 16:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Many of the External links seem to have gone missing. I propose that a new article such as "List of Airsofting Communities" be created to consolidate the many groups that would like to be represented here. According to the guidelines, the external links section is not the correct place for this. Gan Ni Nia 08:23, February 23, 2007

can we clean up the spam?

The merits of a websites wares is not relevant... if its a commercial website the link is spam. Wikipedia suggest that if the information’s relevant you are "encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia". There seem to be several spammy links in this articles External Links section. 69.72.7.28 03:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Added (Cleanup-spam) tag to External Links. I was chasing down spam by following spammer's histories and many lead to this section. I would suggest that this article should be about Airsoft.. i.e. a description, and not a collection of links useful to the Airsoft enthusiast WP:NOT. An Airsoft enthusiast website is the proper place for such links, not Wikipedia. 69.72.93.165 12:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I just restored a {{Cleanup-spam}} tag that had been removed by an editor whose contributions to this section have been questionable. This restore is without judgement on whether the section still merits this tag. / edgarde 21:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Guys i think |NL|Airsoft.com should be added to the links when i see the other links! www.nlairsoft.com This is one of the largest European information and promotion website for airsoft. A must be, next to Airsot News, Arnies and UKASC.

Introductory site(s)

I think we could use an external link to at least one good introduction site on airsoft. The article as it stands does a good job of describing what airsoft is, but doesn't really offer any guidance or recommendations for new players on how and where to go to get started. I imagine that a lot of people reading the article are new players seeking more information. I created http://www.airsoftgunguide.net for the community for this purpose. It essentially contains a walkthrough on how to get going, and provides a fairly comprehensive list of retailers and local leagues around the country (which will be continually updated). Of course, I'm open to suggestions on how to improve the site. --GrandpaCola

I think this is a good idea. after checking out the site above it is a little heavy on ads but the content is very good. i have not seen any objections so i added this site to our links. we may also want to consider adding http://www.tea-and-medals.co.uk - Dr. Orange

Link cleanup

There seems to be some confusion as to what constitutes and external link. Wikipedia articles are not guides or linkfarms for hobbies or organizations WP:NOT#DIRECTORY and they do not offer walkthroughs, guidance, or recommendations WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE. A link to be avoided is any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article (WP:LINKS). In other words the links should be to specific information that would/could/should be in the article. Most of these links (the ones that were not forums or blogs) were to home pages for organizations and did not link specific information. 69.72.93.247 17:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Gun Batteries

Hi, I have a Steyr AUG that i just brought a month ago. The manual says i should only use 8.4volt 600 Mah mini-batteries but i thought they were too weak. So instead i brought a 9.6volt 1500 mah mini-battery. (There's only two kinds of mini-batteries available from where i play airosft.) I got a good response from my gun for now but i'm not sure weather my gun will eventually break.

Any of the forums listed in the External Links section would be a perfect place to ask this question. This page is for discussing the contents and modification of the Airsoft Page it links to. My personal recommendations would be Airsoft Retreat or Arnies Airsoft. Thanks for stopping by! Jonathon Barton 17:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Wargame and Wargaming

Hi, I came to the Airsoft page by accident as it was redirected from Wargame. Trying to find the minatures hobby. I have since found that the page I was actually looking for is Wargaming.
I was following a link on the Origins International Game Expo page. So that page probably needs to have its link fixed. But I thought it would also be useful to add a if you are looking of the minatures game goto wargaming bit to the beginning of the page (or something like that :). Since this is not my topic I thought it best to post this idea here rather than add to it myself.
--TenguTech 12:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Batteries

I brought a battery charger that uses Amps to define power , but i'm more used to using the MAH scale. Can you tell me how many MAHs is an AMP?

As has been said before, the best place to go with questions of this nature is to a dedicated airsoft forum such as Airsoft Retreat, Arnie's Airsoft or ASCUK. This page is for discussing the Airsoft article only. However, I'll give you a heads up- mAh and Amp are used for measuring different things- mAh is capacity and Amp is electrical current. -Madbrood 12:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Disambig (scope)

As the article has grown so some pages where created (airsoft equipment and then airsoft guns). Now it seems more confusion has set in on this page by trying to describe both the sport and the guns (for which there is a separate article), causing lots of duplication. In order to clean this page up and properly separate the sport from the guns I have done the following:

Addition of DAB note for te Airsoft guns page to the top (according to standard WP practice, see Wikipedia:Disambiguation)
Cleaned up intro to refer to the sport only instead of trying to do a disambig of the topic
Moved "gun" related sections to the Airsoft gun page where it is supposed to go
Moved section describing the sport to the top, because that is what the article should cover
Merged the leftovers from Airsoft equipment (which should now be removed) into this page, because it describes equipment used in the sport with links to expanded pages for Airsoft pellets, Airsoft guns etc.

I think it is much better and clearer now. Deon Steyn 10:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Major edit

I will be doing a major cleanup of this article to bring up its standards. For the time being, please do not edit it to make this easier for me. (|-- UlTiMuS ^{( U • T • C | M • E )} 22:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Done for the time being. I cleaned up to Comparisons with paintball, for the record. (|-- UlTiMuS ^{( U • T • C | M • E )} 23:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Request Sources

Recently I've been trying to get this article's quality up, and one of the ways it could really benefit is from appropriate citations. There are almost none here, and for an article of this size and scope, that's really not excusable. Anybody who can verify and add references to any part of this article is strongly encouraged to include them. It would help a lot and would be much appreciated. (|-- UlTiMuS ^{( U • T • C | M • E )} 03:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Airsoft equipment merge

No point to keep these two seperate. The main article already covers much of the content in the other one. There's a lot of redundancy here, and the main article could certainly use a more in-depth treatment of equipment. If there are no timely objections, I will do the merge myself. (|-- UlTiMuS ^{( U • T • C | M • E )} 06:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Three or four headings higher on this talk page ("Disambig scope") you will see that I recently took the contents from the airsoft equipment page and merged it into "airsoft" so that it can be deleted. Shall we delete or just redirect? --Deon Steyn 10:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I see the merge tag now, but like I said, the merge has been done and the equipment page can now be removed. --Deon Steyn 10:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I figured most of it was merged, anyway. I will be doing cleanup and listing the old page for deletion, then. (|-- UlTiMuS ^{( U • T • C | M • E )} 01:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Note, the article Airsoft equipment was deleted through AfD. --UNHchabo 02:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

What the?

In the Airsoft Projectile section, at the end of the section is this:

"BUT YES < AIRSOFT GUNS CAN NOT BE CONVERTED TO FIRE REAL BULLETS < IT WORKS"

Okay it's been fixed. 66.168.207.105 22:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like someone a) needs remedial English classes, and b) is looking to have their hand blown off through their own work. Thanks for taking care of that. --UNHchabo 03:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Footnotes

Ok, I've started a section of footnotes. Anytime an external source is cited, put it here. If we entirely migrated to this system rather than generic "External Links", maybe it would cut down the spam. --UNHchabo 06:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

I am a new member, I joined yesterday. I am sorry if I merged the airsoft sport page and the airsoft guns page, I myself am an avid airsoft enthusisist(I own 6 airsoft guns and play aisoft reguarly with my friends). We all practice safty precations thougth. I would like if some of you would edit the colum I wrote(#6) titled Differant airsoft guns on the bottom of the page.01:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)User GuyDoe.67.140.89.89 01:55, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that my section should stay because it saves time. I will simplify it if you want me too. i couyld add a link to the guns page.GuyDoe 21:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Bud, I don't think anyone's contested the content you've added. There's no problem with having a small section here and the main article elsewhere. If Airsoft guns is merged here, then we can just replace the section. I've also cleaned up everything you've written; your grammar's not so great :). You'll get better, don't worry. Dooms Day349 22:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor Edit

Removed gibberish "other uses" on top of the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.226.108.201 (talk) 15:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

I reverted your edit: it's not gibberish. --ElKevbo 15:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see it still, so I'm going to assume it was in fact gibberish and that someone else edited it again.

Grammar!

"AEGs (Automatic Electric Guns) are the most common high price range airsoft guns because of there high rate of fire and the convenience of automatic fire with out the need for gas."

There =/= their 22-Feb-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.213.101.250 (talk) 21:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

Minor Edit

I edited the Controversey section a little bit.

I think it helps the article flow a lil' better, and it's a little more specific now.

-Vic

Victory0985 01:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Modified Introductory Statment; History Section

I modified the introductory statement to reflect the overall scope of equipment used and gameplay involved in Airsoft.

Also, I moved some of the content to a new "History" section.

UTF-NeonDevil 19:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Age policies

First off, there needs to be a de-POV of the "Airsoft Online" section, it says something like "irresponsible" retailers.

Also, I believe the LEGAL limit for Airsoft is 16, not 18. It says on the packages, but most retailers will not SELL to minors.--24.245.11.103 00:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I changed it. The current culprit is "the anonymity of the Internet" and there is no age limit. If anyone has any other information, please give it (I couldn't find anything to contradict it). --24.245.11.103 02:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The LEGAL limit for buying and/or owning an airsoft replica varys from country to country. --Madbrood 20:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Airsoft laws from around the world

Since it is already has its own separate article, I don't think the specific laws need to mentioned. 65.197.192.130 23:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Factual Accuracy?

I'm not so sure that airsoft began in Japan. I heard on some other sites that there were toys very similar to airsoft in the United States in the early '50's. I'm going to place a tag on the page about this. Please comment if you know more about this topic.

"ushually" not spelled correctly in 1st paragraph at top

Minor Edit

Cleaned up a bit in the magazine capacity area- it was rambling on, repeating info. Feel free to clean more.

Article needs major clean up

The Airsoft article needs a major clean up. Sections in it need to be reorganized. Some sections also need to be delted or moved to a differnt article. The Comparisons with Paintball section NEEDS to be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sheetz (talk • contribs).

Comparisons with paintball removal

I personly think this section should be removed. Does everyone wish to remove this section if so I will remove it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sheetz (talk • contribs).