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Archive 1

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The coordinates need the following fixes:

  • Write here

The actual crash site is clearly visible as a clearing in the forest. There is also a Panoramio photo at the location. The following coordinates represent the centre of the clearing. 48.427736, 7.402967 7°24'16.99"E

219.133.146.75 (talk) 12:05, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The right answer here is none too clear. Here are the possibilities:
Current article coordinates: 48°25′39.85″N 7°24′10.68″E / 48.4277361°N 7.4029667°E / 48.4277361; 7.4029667
Requested coordinates (which do not fall within the clearing notwithstanding the requesting editor's assertion): 48°25′39.85″N 7°24′16.99″E / 48.4277361°N 7.4047194°E / 48.4277361; 7.4047194
Corners of debris field per official investigation report (from section 113.11 of footnote 1 to the article, as translated via Google Translate):
48°25′40″N 7°24′15″E / 48.42778°N 7.40417°E / 48.42778; 7.40417
48°25′40″N 7°24′22″E / 48.42778°N 7.40611°E / 48.42778; 7.40611
48°25′37″N 7°24′15″E / 48.42694°N 7.40417°E / 48.42694; 7.40417
48°25′37″N 7°24′22″E / 48.42694°N 7.40611°E / 48.42694; 7.40611
Wikimapia coordinates (center of box and center of clearing): 48°25′31.13″N 7°24′17.30″E / 48.4253139°N 7.4048056°E / 48.4253139; 7.4048056
Panoramio coordinates (which fall within the clearing and the Wikimapia box): 48°25′32.41″N 7°24′19.08″E / 48.4256694°N 7.4053000°E / 48.4256694; 7.4053000
My opinion is that — but it's only an opinion:
  • Neither the current article coordinates nor the requested coordinates are correct.
  • The clearing is very likely the investigation/debris field site and the Wikimapia/Panoramio coordinates are thus probably correct.
  • The official report's coordinates are off a bit.
I would ordinarily accept the Wikimapia coordinates as correct, but since they conflict with the official report I am reluctant to do so. I am, therefore, going to reset the coordinates to the approximate center of the debris field described in the official report, 48°25′38.5″N 7°24′18.5″E / 48.427361°N 7.405139°E / 48.427361; 7.405139, as being the most objectively reliable without resorting directly (i.e. by satellite map analysis) or indirectly (i.e. by relying on the Wikimapia, Panoramio, or requesting editor's undocumented assertions) to original research even though I suspect that the Wikimapia/Panoramio ones are more likely correct. Perhaps some future editor can find reliable sources to resolve the differences. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 16:04, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Documents

WhisperToMe (talk) 17:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Show Title Error

19 December 2011 - This article incorrectly states that MAYDAY is known as AIR EMERGENCY in Australia. It is actually known as AIR CRASH INVESTIGATION in Australia (as it is in the UK). This episode aired today. Aust author (talk) 12:29, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the referenced to the Canadian cable channel as this show is seen on several different channels in Canada. I've replaced the channel name with the name of the production company. Dknrd (talk) 17:06, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I also just saw this (in Finland) and it was entitled "Doomed to Fail". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.133.11.4 (talk) 17:16, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

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Rename?

Should this article be renamed to Air Inter Flight 5148? Per the final report, the flight number was 5148 and not 148. 223.236.245.35 (talk) 08:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 2 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. After two relists, it doesn't seem like the consensus is getting any clearer on whether or not to move this page. There are comments that support and oppose the move request without a strong clarification either way, meaning the current title may not necessarily be incorrect. With that being said, per the information in the discussion below, if anyone feels the need to create Air Inter Flight 5148 as a redirect towards this article, there's no prejudice against doing so. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 20:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Air Inter Flight 148 → Air Inter Flight 5148 – I think ASN made an error in the flight number by using the callsign "ITF 148 DA". Seeing sources (even one mention in the final report on page 500), they mention it as Flight 5148 not 148: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] etc. 223.229.158.165 (talk) 16:30, 2 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 17:43, 11 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 19:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Aviation has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 19:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment. Both the French and English versions of the accident report refer to this as Air Inter Flight 148 in section 1.1 (page 14 on the English PDF). RecycledPixels (talk) 19:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Weak Support A difficult one. The official version of the report uses 5148 once and notes the call sign was for flight 148, also only once. Contemporaneous newspaper articles all use 5148, but more recent sources including some documentaries use 148. My sense is they're both correct but that 5148 is slighly "more correct." SportingFlyer T·C 11:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose As mentioned, 5148 only appears in the final report once, and it comes handwritten on a meteorological document[6], so it could be argued it's the "official" flight number, probably why it only appears in these news reports just after the crash. But the report also shows the callsign of just 148 is used extensively, and way more modern sources use 148 rather than 5148, so WP:COMMONNAME could apply. ThatFlyingSquid (talk) 13:40, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
  • @RecycledPixels: The final report mentions "the aircraft used the callsign ITF 148 DA" not something like "the plane was operating as scheduled passenger service ITF 148". The callsign and flight number can differ at any time. Also for @ThatFlyingSquid:, the report also uses the callsign of just 148 is seemingly incorrect as it has only one instance of appearance which is page 14 and it was it's callsign and that too is ITF 148 DA and not just 148. A request from ASN was made and they too corrected it to 5148 from 148. Also, modern sources can use an incorrect flight number (e.g. Pan Am Flight 6 is erroneously referred sometimes as flight 943). Seeing the Pan Am crash, I think we should continue this theme of using a correct flight number than a commonly used flight number. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.68.3.14 (talk) 13:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
    • I meant in the CVR and ATC transcripts, which spells out "one four eight" or "one hundred forty eight" several times. ThatFlyingSquid (talk) 14:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
      • @ThatFlyingSquid: Obviously it will say "one four eight" or in this case "Delta Alpha One Forty Eight" since that's their callsign provided by Air Inter but that doesn't provide enough evidence that it is flight number as said earlier, flight numbers and callsigns can differ. E.g. Flying Tiger Line Flight 45 (which as of now does not have a wikipage) had flight number 45 but used the callsign "Flying Tiger 785". See this:[7] or an even better example would be Germanwings Flight 9525, which we clearly don't refer to as Germanwings Flight 18G, despite it's callsign being Germanwings One-Eight Golf.
  • One more thing to point out, we need to have some form of balance between the COMMONNAME policy and the PRECISION policy. COMMONNAME is definitely not something to ignore but is also not the highest priority. All policies are laden equally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.213.61.153 (talk) 14:25, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 30 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. The opinions below should be viewed in the context of the previous move request in mid-2022 that ended with no consensus. It is even pointed out in the discussion below that 'Air Inter Flight 148' is the more *common* name. The raw Google hits, though they don't always play a decisive role, are strongly tilted in favor of '148'. The French and German Wikipedias still have this as Flight 148. EdJohnston (talk) 00:55, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Air Inter Flight 148 → Air Inter Flight 5148 – Noting the move above and the revert taken on my move, I apologize for the administrators if this may as well be getting rather repetitive but I would like to post a move request to Air Inter Flight 5148, as mentioned in the sourcing above, several sources (including French sources) mention this accident as flight 5148 and not 148, even today: [8], [9], [10]. I think that the callsign (AIR INTER 148 DELTA ALPHA) in the final report might have interfered in interpreting the flight number (IT5148) from the beginning, hereby the confusion. This may have caught on and not been fixed until found somewhat recently. Callsigns and flight numbers can very well be different. Thanks! Idmsdmsalescaleneiviq (talk) 08:22, 30 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:51, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

  • Comment: While I am in favour of having a precise article name, is it possible that someone weigh here which one of these policies has more weight in this scenario, WP:COMMONNAME or WP:PRECISE as pointed out in the above discussion, reason being right now 148 is used more commonly, in the French Wikipedia article,[11] on Google search (where 148 turns up 70 million results and 5148 has less than 600K results)[12] [13], and even in Mayday. I will stay neutral for now, but as for within the article itself I suggest that the intro be changed to something like "Air Inter Flight 5148 (IT5148), more commonly and erroneously referred to as Air Inter Flight 148, was (continued to rest of intro)" so as to satisfy the common name while keeping it relatively accurate that the flight is actually IT5148. SBS6577P (talk) 11:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Going a bit off-track but there needs to be a guideline for using the IATA flight number and not the callsign because I believe another example of this would include British Airtours Flight 28M where the actual flight number was KT328 while for some odd reason, the final report incorrectly lists it as KT28M: [14] on page 3. I do also think in this case that the flight number was in fact KT328: [15], (Simple Flying clearly makes mention of 28M being its *callsign* while 328 being it's actual flight number:)[16], [17], [18] and so on. Idmsdmsalescaleneiviq (talk) 13:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I think we should name it Flight 5148 

PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


Please label your comment as a support or an oppose. Idmsdmsalescaleneiviq (talk) 11:32, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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