Talk:United States complicity in Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war

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On 24 July 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to United States complicity in the Israel–Hamas war. The result of the discussion was not moved.

"alleged war crimes"

Is it really in serious dispute that at least some war crimes have been committed by Israel during the present war? (t · c) buidhe 01:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ghazaalch (t · c) buidhe 03:14, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello buidhe. I'm not sure. I guess I should ask someone else like Nableezy. And you seem to be experienced in these kinds of articles. Any suggestions? Ghazaalch (talk) 07:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it were my article I would just remove the word "alleged" in the title, similar to the article title for Israeli war crimes (t · c) buidhe 01:55, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also think that the word "alleged" should be removed. David A (talk) 09:55, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done.Ghazaalch (talk) 15:46, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: consensus reached to drop accusations of from title. (non-admin closure) Gsgdd (talk) 06:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: Requested moves should be closed by an uninvolved editor, so in accordance with WP:NOTBURO, I hereby officially close this request as described above. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 07:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accusations of United States complicity in Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war → United States complicity in Gaza genocide – the intro and Defense for Children International-Palestine et al v. Biden et al seems to indicate it is mainly about US complicity in Gaza genocide. Gsgdd (talk) 08:52, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly support this name change. David A (talk) 08:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly oppose, it would reduce the scope down significantly compared to what is currently written. One could make the argument that this is desirable, but as the article is written now, it includes accusations that are not genocide. FortunateSons (talk) 08:57, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support shortening this to United States complicity in Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war. The "accusations of" part is unnecessary. We don't write "Supposed" before Extraterrestrial life even though there is no evidence of aliens.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:56, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support move or at least the removal of "Accusations of" due to its redundancy. While replacing the (quite verbose) "Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war" part with "Gaza genocide" might seem to potentially narrow the scope of the article, this is would actually not be the case, since the vast majority of said war crimes should be sufficiently related to topics discussed in the Gaza genocide article anyway. Niokog (talk) 13:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Instead, they argued that allowing pro-Palestinian protests and statements on campuses promotes anti-Semitism."

There's no source for this. If you ask me, we need to add one, or take this sentence out. SirShaunIV (talk) 02:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

United States complicity in Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war

Requested move 24 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Waqar💬 15:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

United States complicity in Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war → United States complicity in the Israel–Hamas war – I think the page name is too long. Any other suggestion is also welcome Astropulse (talk) 12:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 00:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

United States complicity in Gaza genocide had partial support in last request. Astropulse (talk) 12:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the shortening proposed by nominator, it feels incomplete. To shorten with the goal of mentioning the Israel–Hamas war, I would suggest changing the action word from complicity to participation such as United States participation in the Israel–Hamas war. That, at least, is both precise and concise. No opposition to the proposed changes that drop war crimes in the title over Israel–Hamas war. Bobby Cohn (talk) 17:58, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Israel, WikiProject Palestine, WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject United States have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 00:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest United States participation in the Israel–Hamas war as proposed by u:Bobby Cohn. There is no general article about the participation of the US (which includes humanitarian aid, diplomatic efforts, military aid, etc.) so the article should describe all that. Alaexis_¿question? 15:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

United States complicity in the Gaza genocide is what the article is about. M.Bitton (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Is it just me or does the current article title not match the content of the article? We may be in NPOV territory, as the article title invokes the word "complicity" as fact, while the article uses "accused of complicity" and "complicity accusation". (Please note that this should not be read as reflective of my own views on this conflict.) Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 19:03, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a precedent for political accusations being handled this way, essentially you have a notable topic of US complicity and then specific concepts or accusations relevant to such an article regardless of what RS were used to establish notability. See Antisemitism in the British Labour Party for an example. Orchastrattor (talk) 16:35, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Orchastrattor: But even that example is different. Note the lead sentence, which also states it as fact: "There have been instances of antisemitism within the Labour Party of the United Kingdom (UK) since its establishment." Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 17:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While the article's content mentions "allegations of antisemitism". M.Bitton (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The proposed title is a non-starter as it is not NPOV; d'oh! Gog the Mild (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cleanup tag

I've added a cleanup tag to the article as it struggles to provide a quality overall view of the topic. Currently, the article is primarily composed of blow-by-blow quotes and statements from/about single individuals and organizations with little connective tissue between them. See also WP:EPSTYLE. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 19:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]