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Archive 1

Regarding Article Name

This article needs to be combined with Abgar. Please see my message on its talk page. -- isis 16:50 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

[Copied from Abgar]
This article needs to be combined with Abgarus of Edessa. As a matter of NPOV, I think we should quote the letters and describe who thinks/thought it authentic and who does/did not. -- isis 16:48 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

Merge done. - Hephaestos 04:29 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

I've been caught in this same web, but i've merged my new article with this one and shall now make redirects. I removed this: (Ukkama or Uchomo, "the black") I removed this appositive, since all the kings at Edessa were named Abgar it cannot be relevant.Wetman 21:47, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The article at Abgar is so short I think it should be merged into this one. Another article for the Kings of Edessa could be created if need be.--Cuchullain 03:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Precisely like merging Louis with Louis XIV of France, for the reasons explained above and in the first sentence of the article Abgar. There are historical Abgars in addition to the fairytale one. --Wetman 14:21, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
The most famous king of Edessa was Abgar V Ukkāmâ. The title Abgarus should definitely be done away with. I imagine the Latin case ending comes from EB1911. Therefore, I think that the article on this king should be at Abgar Ukkama — we can do without the diacritics (unless you know Syriac they don't mean very much), and we can do without the regnal number because it's a later addition (the surname identifies which Abgar is meant) and does not appear in the texts on Abgar Ukkama. Then we should have a disambiguation page at Abgar, which links to the notable bearers of the name, and directs the reader to Osroene for the list of rulers. Whatever happens, let's be clear that Abgaus is a bad title for any of these articles. --Gareth Hughes 14:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be mentioned, as Gareth says, that he is also known as Abgar O'komo ("Abgar the Black)? I've forgot why his called that, but I've heard the story many times and I personally used to know him only as "Abgar O'komo". The TriZ (talk) 00:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Assyrian, Syriac or Syrian

Ok, this problem has come up again. Arameanists claim the right thing would be "Syriac" because that is the modern way to say it ... Assyrianists say that the correct way to say it is "Assyrian" because "Syrian" = "Assyrian" so he is Assyrian ... The third and most neutral of the three is "Syrian" which is what he was identified as at the time ... both sides would agree that he is Syrian because Syriacs say that Syrian is exact same thing as Syriac, and Assyrians also say that Syrian is Assyrian too ... both win! Malik Danno (talk) 19:51, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Abgar was a Aramean King

Abgar was an Aramean (Syriac) King and NOT "Assyrian" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.234.33.210 (talk) 10:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article mention the he was of Nabataean\Arab lineage???

Since he was a ruler of Osroene which was established by The Nabataeans\Arabs\Arameans, and since it's natives were described as Arabs by Pliny the Elder[1][2] , shouldn't the article at least mention his Nabataeans\Arab lineage other than just describing him as an Armenian?? Ahmed Hallak (talk) 14:27, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Sources

Good source on Abgar's (uncertain) ethnicity:

  • Ball, W. (2002). Rome in the East: The Transformation of an Empire. Taylor & Francis. p. 89-90. ISBN 978-1-134-82387-1. Retrieved 21 March 2017.

I haven't figured out how and where to include this in the article text, so I haven't done anything for now. Frankly, I'm not sure it's important enough to be necessary to include. Sondra.kinsey (talk) 13:15, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Wikipedia - Osroene".
  2. ^ "ABGAR dynasty of Edessa, 2nd century B.C. to 3rd century A.D".

Text not up to article standard - rewrite/delete?

The paragraph commencing "After the ascension of God" needs attention. I don't know enough about the topic to do it justice, or I'd fix it myself; nevertheless, the text is of exceedingly poor quality. Will someone please rewrite it or delete it? Kay Dekker (talk) 13:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

 Done

Shroud of Turin?

The Shrout of Turin has nothing in common with the image of Jesus in the Abgar story. The shroud is supposed to be an image of the whole body of Jesus imprinted on his shroud after his death. It has nothing to do with Jesus making an image of his face while still alive. The comparison should be deleted. Caeruleancentaur (talk) 17:46, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

 Done

Evagrius of Edessa?

The article cites a certain Evagrius bishop of Edessa in the second half of the sixth century as a witness to the Mandylion. I don't think such a person exists -- it is a confusion with the church historian Evagrius of Antioch, who lived at the same time and wrote about the Mandylion. The article on "Evagrius of Edessa" that is linked is only a stub -- I posted my question there too but thought I should bring it up here as it seems there is more activity here. Horatio325 (talk) 08:09, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

@Horatio325: Searching wikisource turns up nothing. Searching Google scholar reveals only one article,[1] which cites Gibbon's "decline and fall of the Roman empire" Volume 3, page 4-5. I tried to find him in Gibbons' work without success.[2][3][4] Gibbons' work was published in multiple editions with different pagination, and perhaps Bara cited the wrong volume, so I tried a more general search. Unfortunately, Google knows nothing of Evagrius of Edessa in Gibbons, which should be readily available since Gibbons is public domain. Thus, I think it is safe to say that Evagrius of Edessa did not exist.
 Done Sondra.kinsey (talk) 14:49, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Bara, Adriana. The Gospels in icons according to the Eastern Orthodox tradition. Diss. Concordia University, 2006, p. 15.
  2. ^ s:Page:Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_vol_3_(1897).djvu/24.
  3. ^ https://www.gutenberg.org/files/733/733-h/733-h.htm
  4. ^ http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/gibbon-the-history-of-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire-vol-3

NPOV

This article violates NPOV throughout. The Armenian Christians don't think this is a legendary character yet the first section is the "Legend of King Abgar" which shows a bias against the view that these are historical accounts. It may be that this should be in a separate page about Historicity of Eastern Orthodoxy but the article begins as a factual one stating that King Abgar is a historical figure and should stick to that.

There are numerous expressions of opinion throughout the article with no references which need to be deleted or referenced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burdenedwithtruth (talk • contribs) 06:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I should have asked first

agreed, I should have asked first. I think that in English the phrase "also known as" implies a different name, not just a variant in the spelling. Abgar and Apkar are the same name, just spelt differently according to the transliteration. So I think it is misleading to say "also known as St Apkar" instead of "also spelt Apkar". --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 11:50, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

The correspondence

The article tells us about how the letters were treated as authentic by early Christians but does not explain how and when they came to be regarded as fake. This seems like a serious omission. Tigerboy1966  05:49, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Primary Sources

I'm not sure where and how to include this in the article, but I believe the main sources on Abgar's conversion are:

  • Eusebius "Church History" 1.13 (Greek)
  • Labubna "Teaching of Addai" (Syriac) Published in G. Phillips, The Doctrine of Addai, the Apostle, Now First Edited in a Complete Form in the Original Syriac, Trübner & Co., London 1876. and also in G. Howard, The Teaching of Addai (Society of Biblical Literature Texts and Translations, 16, Early Christian Literature Series, 4) Scholars Press, Chico/CA 1981.
  • "Itinerarium Egeriae" (Latin)

Does anyone else think this list should be included? Sondra.kinsey (talk) 02:19, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

languages for name

Why is his name given in "Ancient Greek" instead of "Koine Greek"? And why in Armenian? If it is because he is considered an Armenian saint, what about other Orthodox languages? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 13:47, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Richardson mcphillips: It was labelled as Ancient Greek because this article uses a form of template:lang, which like HTML itself, generally uses ISO 639-1 or ISO 639-2 codes. ISO 639-2 uses a single code for all forms of Greek until 1453 CE, as seen at List of ISO 639-2 codes. There is a Byzantine/Medieval Greek template:lang-gkm, presumably based on the language code in ISO 639-3, but that is inappropriate for the present article. (I have another qualm with that template as well, see Template talk:Lang-gkm.) I have edited the page to use template:lang-grc-gre which uses the generic name "Greek".
As far as other languages go, I would propose only including those languages in which his name can be found in ancient texts, but I am not familiar with Wikipedia policy or conventions on this issue. Sondra.kinsey (talk) 16:36, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. This is beyond my level of Wikicompentency! As there is an article on Koine Greek, which covers this period, why not use that? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 11:13, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Is this the same Abgar listed at BHO 9? Curious it doesn't have one in Syriac--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 17:35, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

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