Talk:21 at 33

21 at 33 has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 4, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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Reference ideas for 21 at 33

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

"White Lady White Powder" also released as a single

Released as a single in France, 1980. rateyourmusic.com/release/single/elton-john/white-lady-white-powder-white-man-danger/ Fp cassini (talk) 16:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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live performances

"John has not played any of the material in concert since touring in 1980, with the exception of "Little Jeannie", "White Lady White Powder" and "Sartorial Eloquence". In other words, 3 of the 9 tracks: 1/3 of the tracks. This should be reworded or the paragraph dropped completely. ◦◦derekbd◦◦my talk◦◦ 12:14, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Chchcheckit (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:21 at 33/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Elephantranges (talk · contribs) 00:46, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Chchcheckit (talk · contribs) 10:50, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright I'll do this. Please hold. //Chchcheckit (talk) 10:50, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Very much appreciated. Elephantranges (talk) Elephantranges (talk) 17:50, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Well-written

prose is good.
Release date in Release and Promotion: "21 at 33 was released in May 1980." Would it be better to write/format as "21 at 33 was released on 23 May 1980 with the citation used in the album infobox?

Accuracy/Verifiability/Spotchecks

"It would ultimately receive a Gold certification from the BPI for sales exceeding 100,000 copies." I checked the BPI BRIT certified database and this album is absent. Please remove or find another non-primary source about the UK sales, if there is one.
"Robinson had already found success with his Tom Robinson Band and hits such as "2-4-6-8 Motorway" (1977) and the gay pride anthem "Glad to Be Gay" (1978), while Tuzke was a Rocket signee who had a UK top 20 hit with "Stay with Me till Dawn" in 1979." I am unable to access this source: can you quote the relevant text from Buckley 2013, p. 261 for verification?
No citation for personnel; i have inserted this for you since it's a minor thing
Earwig checks out; will need to look at text sources

Broad

Offers enough context to the reunion between John/Taupin and covers all relevant sections; no major complaints here.
Touring efforts should be mentioned in the lead

NPOV

pending

Stability

this is fine

Illustrations/Images

Artwork has appropriate rationale, and the other two images are licensed under creative commons. ~~I am wondering if the bruce johnston photo is decorative or not since it only alludes to one song.~~ (i misread the caption and relevant text-no it's good n relevant)
Bruce Johnston image needs a citation regarding vocal arrangements (ideally non primary) as his role in arrranging "Dear God" does not appear to be mentioned in the composition section otherwise (it is noted in the credits section, though).

progress is slow. sorry i've been burnt out but am working through. appears to be mostly good // Chchcheckit (talk) 14:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Elephantranges Hi, please check, fix and comment. Otherwise, this is very good. Still working on things though. // Chchcheckit (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chchcheckit: Thanks for looking through this!

As for the release date, I'm still not completely sure on how to approach this. I believe the US release date preceded the UK release date (AllMusic states May 13, but that's coming from one of those infoboxes they have above their reviews, which I know are not a great source), so that would likely be the one to use, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I checked the liner notes to the 2003 CD reissue to see if they mentioned the original release date, but they do not. Should I just list the 23 May 1980 date within the lead and just specify that that was the UK date?
Yeah, I just looked through the (very frustrating) official BPI website and of course this album just so happens to be excluded, for some reason. I can't seem to find a better source at the moment so I may just have to exclude this.
From Buckley 2013, p. 261: "The other standout on 21 at 33 was 'Sartorial Eloquence', one of two collaborations with Tom Robinson. As leader of the Tom Robinson band, Robinson had made his name with a series of intelligent pieces of power pop. '2-4-6-8 Motorway' was one of the finest singles of 1977 and 'Glad To Be Gay' one of the bravest of 1978." As for Tzuke, I'll need to add a citation from page 256: "Rocket act Judie Tzuke, fresh from the success of a big hit single with the ballad 'Stay with Me Till Dawn', opened for Elton that day" (referring to the Central Park concert).
I'll look through the biographies and reviews for a mention of Bruce Johnston's contribution to "Dear God"; if I don't see anything, I'll cite the liner notes, which I know isn't ideal but he is directly credited for that song's vocal arrangements so it'd at least be better than nothing.

Yeah, the liner notes are the only place I can find that mentions this. None of the biographies do, and the few noteworthy reviews that can be found online of this album don't either.

Let me know of anything else which needs editing; thanks again! Elephantranges (talk) 17:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Elephantranges Okay, almost done besides a few minor things:

I found a source for the release date, added/fixed.
I found a source that supports Judie Tzuke minus WP:OR, which i've added.
Due to the lack of sources citing liner notes alone for Bruce Johnston potentially falls under WP:OR. I suggest you remove the photo. Basically; this is all you need to do.

Thanks. // 11:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC) Chchcheckit (talk) 11:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to go ahead and remove the image for the time being. However, I'm not really sure why using the liner notes would be original research, as its simply a source that states he did the vocal arrangement for that song. Seems like it's no different than using it as a citation for the recording dates, which are also listed in the liner notes.

Thank you for looking through this! Elephantranges (talk) 16:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]