Talk:Attacks on the Sounion

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Requested move 25 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Attacks on the Sounion (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Red Sea oil spill → ? – Other oil spills occurred in the Red Sea this year, such as the Rubymar and Chios Lion, making the current title ambiguous. I think that the title should be changed into something more precise, such as August 2024 Red Sea oil spill or Attacks on the MT Delta Sounion. Chomik! (talk?) 13:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 14:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move: Those are good points, and I think that both options you suggested would be good. The former I think describes the situation more overall later on, while the latter might be more fitting for now until news reports of clear oil spill with a prominent slick appear, so I can move it to that one for now. One other possible title later on could be something like MT Delta Sounion oil spill akin to the title of the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Thank you, I appreciate your feedback and points of consideration! Noble Attempt (talk) 04:43, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move: The ship's name is just Sounion (corrected in the article, except for the page title, pending consensus here). If the ship variant is chosen, it should be just Sounion oil spill, but I am not opposed to August 2024 Red Sea oil spill. - Davidships (talk) 11:03, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move: This article is about an attack on a ship at sea. Since applying the naming convention for events gives ambiguous results, the article should not be named after the place where it happened but about the ship itself. The ship's name, which is apparently MT Delta Sounion, and is currently a redirect, is probably the best title. This means the attack on the ship and the subsequent oil spill can all be covered in the same article along with the rest of the ship's history. This avoids having too many content forks, as all the information is in one article. Also, articles about ships that result in them sinking have been described as "Sinking of the <ship>". e.g. Sinking of the Titanic, Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, Sinking of the RMS Lusitania, etc. If this ship sinks, that gives a second naming option, other possible titles, such as "Attack on ... " or "Destruction of ... " may be apparent from sources. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 19:31, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving it to Attacks on the MT Delta Abo Yemen ✉ 10:59, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to repeat this but the name of the tanker is just Sounion. Almost all the references have it correctly, and it is corroborated by the owner, MarineTraffic, Equasis and all the photos I can find - Davidships (talk) 13:06, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, my bad. ill go with the August 2024 Red Sea oil spill option then Abo Yemen ✉ 13:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It appears the shipping line is called Delta tankers and a number of other ships of the line have the prefix "Delta ...", but this ship is only called "Sounion". The "MT" designates the type of ship, in this case an oil tanker. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 13:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving to Attacks on the MT Delta Sounion. The battle between the tankers armed guards and the Houthi fast attack craft is in itself notable, and there are other details that should be added to the article like the subsequent engagement when the French frigate rendering assistance attacked and destroyed an approaching Houthi explosive boat.XavierGreen (talk) 03:07, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment - there's a clear consensus to move, but it would be good to get some more definitive agreement on what exactly to move to. — Amakuru (talk) 14:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Attacks on the Sounion. Consistent with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events)#Maritime, which does not seem to include the ship's classification abbreviation before the name. Delta does not seem to be part of the name. Per WP:NOYEAR, the event is unlikely to recur in a future year that would give rise to a separate article, so the year should be omitted. I think pluralizing attacks is probably best given the gap between the 21 and 23 August occurrences. --Bsherr (talk) 12:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

move There is not oil spill and may never be one, firstly. Secondly, as mentioned variously above, attack on the ship would make more sense. 1 of 3 biggest attacks by yemen in the last 9 or so month is highly notable.Sportsnut24 (talk) 18:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Attacks on the MT Sounion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support naming the article Attacks on the Sounion as proposed by Bsherr. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 18:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Attacks on the Sounion best meets WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE. - Davidships (talk) 19:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shouldn't this article list general information on the ship like the Tutor and Rubymar articles do?

Things like port of registry, identification, gross tonnage, size, launch date, etc D1d2d3d29 (talk) 13:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, but without excessive detail, to keep it proportional on the page (assuming that the "oilspill infobox" will remain at the head of the article, as with Attacks on the MV Tutor). - Davidships (talk) 13:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On an article about the MT Sounian, yes. Like the Rubymar.Sportsnut24 (talk) 18:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oil spill section

How can there even be a section on somethiing that has neither happened nor may not. Maybe an analysis section after the reactions on concerns thereof.Sportsnut24 (talk) 18:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 September 2024

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Replace all instances of 150,000 tons with 150,000 tonnes Macca2023 (talk) 00:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: the grammar is correct.[1] 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:15, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The grammar may be correct, but the units are incorrect. Tons and tonnes are different by 10%. A simple search will show that this ships cargo was measured and reported in tonnes. Macca2023 (talk) 23:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tonnes are indeed different to short tons by around 10%, and also different to long tons by about 1.5%, but sources using "tons" do not specify long/short. At a quick look, sources used seem to split about 50:50 between tonnes/tons, but are all using the same figure - it is clearly intended as an approximation, as is the other measure quoted: "1 million barrels" (which, for crude oil, is indeed about 150,000 short tons, compared with c.135,000 tonnes/long tons). But we cannot pick and choose, but only reflect the reliable sources that are cited. I suggest that we use "tons", with a footnote explaining the differences, with refs. - Davidships (talk) 14:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources are split because half of them are wrong. Instead of using news outlets with reporters who don't understand the difference between tons and tonnes, use sources who are familiar with the oil industry and shipping. Also use Wikipedia articles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_tonnage

DWT used to be long tons, now it is tonnes. Never short tons.

The Sounion, built in 2006 by Hyundai, is a Suezmax crude carrier with a summer DWT of 163,759 tonnes. This makes the likely cargo 150,000 tonnes.

She was in fact carrying a load of Iraqi Basrah heavy crude oil with an API gravity of 24° and density of 910 kg/m3.

1.036 million barrels would have a mass of 150 tonnes, so this looks to agree with several reports of 1 million barrels.

Pro tip, the world is using tonnes. Only Americans and confused reporters use tons and more and more of them are using this when the mass is clearly in tonnes. (for example CO2) Macca2023 (talk) 23:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]