Talk:2024 Iran–Pakistan border skirmishes

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1978 Iranian politics, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Iran Low‑importance

	Iran portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pakistan Low‑importance

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / Middle East / South Asia / Post-Cold War Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	South Asian military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

No consensus to merge, with discussion stale. Klbrain (talk) 20:30, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The claim of Iran-Pakistan skirmishes does not meet the definition of skirmishes, there were only two missile attacks and not a ground conflict and should be merged into Insurgency in Balochistan.

Merge, It's difficult to determine notability when the event is so recent. It is noteworthy as an event that is caused by the insurgency, but it's hard to know the long-term impact of the event when it just happened. AlexandraAVX (talk) 11:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, nations broke off high level relations and called back ambassadors. Both nations have bombed each other sovereign territory without the approval of the other. This isn’t just any other event that deserves a passing mention, this is an unprecedented turn of events that deserves its own unique page. VirtualVagabond (talk) 16:21, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose while of course related, I think the current events and the surrounding international situation is distinct enough to warrant its own article. Would also overwhelm the Balochistan article, especially if the other current merges are successful. Yeoutie (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i think the event should be merged if the tensions escalte further. Suggestions should continue. Hamzaboi23 (talk) 18:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should be merged into Insurgency in Balochistan. The source proves that both countries are targeting Baloch separatists in each other's territory, and there is no direct armed conflict between the two militaries. Eupakistani (talk) 05:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge somehow, there are currently three articles, one for the Iranian strikes into Pakistan, one the other way 'round, and this one (the title "skirmishes" is incorrect, as the other editor mentioned above). I don't think merging to Insurgency in Balochistan is on topic for that article. Abductive (reasoning) 21:21, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i don't think it would be reasonable to put the current article into insurgency in balochistan since the Pakistani claims for hunting BLA are quite unclear. However, if the articles were to be merged i'd suggest the article of Operation Marg Bar Sarmachar and 2024 Iran-Pakistan skirmishes should be merged. Hamzaboi23 (talk) 15:14, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge, It should be merged into Insurgency in Balochistan. The source proves that both countries are targeting Baloch separatists in each other's territory, and there is no direct armed conflict between the two militaries. Eupakistani (talk) 1:20, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Foreign nationals

There were no Iranian nationals killed in the airstrikes conducted by Pakistan on Iranian soil according to Iran so please remove the "9 killed" figure in the casualties section of Iran. 182.181.237.103 (talk) 14:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC, AP etc. have reported 9 deaths in Iran, I've added a source to the infobox. AlexandraAVX (talk) 14:51, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC, AP etc have gained that information from Iranian authorities, who also say that it was "9 foreign nationals" not Iranians. 76.53.254.138 (talk) 21:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign nationalities are still casualties of the missile strike killed on Irani soil so they should be listed, doesn’t make much of a difference whether they were Iranian citizens or not. 2605:B100:124:F5D:D74:5C42:FFE3:1510 (talk) 21:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Operation Marg Bar Sarmachar into 2024 Iran-Pakistan skirmishes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge Operation Marg Bar Sarmachar into 2024 Iran-Pakistan skirmishes; to do so would be an inappropriate synthesis. Klbrain (talk) 20:19, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like one article for this series of incidents would be better to prevent clutter. Not too much distinct notability in these separate articles anyway. TheDoodbly (talk) 15:00, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No that operation itself needs to have a separate article. This article at best can be synthesis of events. DdBbCc22 (talk) 18:57, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both merges. This article is synthesis and creates a false narrative of ongoing conflict. It's best that this article be deleted and other kept. Ecrusized (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose For it to be considered a “skirmish”, there needs to be a military confrontation of some sort. However, that hasn’t happened. For the same reason, combining the two and presenting it as a skirmish would be synthesis, as what we have instead here is two countries targeting what they claim are their own citizens (and members of proscribed outfits) on each other’s territories. Mar4d (talk) 16:25, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Delete this article while preserving the other, as it perpetuates a misleading narrative. Simply examine the infobox, where one side associates the State of Pakistan with Jaishul Adl and Pakistan Armed Forces, while the other side aligns Iran with BLA. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge of 2024 Iranian missile strikes in Pakistan into 2024 Iran–Pakistan border skirmishes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge 2024 Iranian missile strikes in Pakistan into 2024 Iran–Pakistan border skirmishes, to avoid undue synthesis. Klbrain (talk) 20:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Event has developed into a back-and-forth conflict, so it'd be easier to group all of the information into one article. These breakoff articles also don't have as much notability to exist on their own. TheDoodbly (talk) 15:11, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Ecrusized. Jebiguess (talk) 18:02, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both merges per current condition. Both parties performed their airstrikes under the veil of anti-terrorism with the ostensible target being Baluchistan militants, and there's no declaration of war or aggression from neither party. Furthermore, even if theses airstrikes exist as independent articles, there is no reason to cite notability and appeal for removal of these articles. There are several articles of independent and military actions with little or no escalation afterwards, for example Operation Martyr Soleimani among others. Fallen Legends (talk) 18:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Both articles are now equally heavily weighted. Borgenland (talk) 13:25, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both merges. This article is synthesis and creates a false narrative of ongoing conflict. It's best that this article be deleted and other kept. Ecrusized (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized: Which details in this article are incorrect? Jarble (talk) 15:35, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Purportedly describing an ongoing conflict between Iran and Pakistan, while both sides did not officially attack each others armed forces but alleged terrorist groups located in their territory. Ecrusized (talk) 15:40, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

totally agreed with @Ecrusized. There are no 2024 Iran–Pakistan border skirmishes happening at the moment. The title and article is misleading and should be marked for deletion unless the situation changes. Sy.mehdi.riz (talk) 18:23, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed with you DdBbCc22 (talk) 18:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree Parham wiki (talk) 22:54, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with deleting this article, and keeping the others. PhilKnight (talk) 22:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

should not be 2024 Iran–Pakistan-Syria-Iraq border skirmishes?31.221.182.128 (talk) 00:57, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is Pakistan in conflict with Syria or Iraq? No. So it can't be called Iran–Pakistan-Syria-Iraq border skirmishes. Sy.mehdi.riz (talk) 09:59, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I endorse the merger with an alternative title, 2024 Iran–Pakistan air strikes, as both nations conducted air strikes within each other's territory. The current titles, 2024 Iran–Pakistan border skirmishes and 2024 Iranian missile strikes in Pakistan, are misleading or unsuitable, considering Pakistan's reciprocal response. I propose changing this article's title to 2024 Iran–Pakistan air strikes and consolidating the other one into it. 2024 Iran–Pakistan standoff could be another good alternative. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:58, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Airstrike is an inaccurate term. An airstrike, is an operation carried out by aircraft. Iran did not launch airstrikes, but missile attacks. Ecrusized (talk) 10:32, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed with you here. The present events are not like traditional conflicts. I would recommend to let remain both pages as it is and Iran-Pakistan skirmishes page should be deleted. DdBbCc22 (talk) 11:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then, we change it to 2024 Iran–Pakistan standoff. This title effectively encapsulates the current situation, encompassing skirmishes, air strikes, missile strikes, and more. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 15:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Except this isn’t a “standoff”. Pakistani and Iranian forces didn’t target each other, so it can’t really be considered a standoff. Neither was their combat involved, unlike the 2019 India–Pakistan border skirmishes in which a pilot was captured following a dogfight. What we have are two strikes that happened at two different times. Mar4d (talk) 16:31, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected then we delete this one and keep Operation Marg Bar Sarmachar and 2024 Iranian missile strikes in Pakistan. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 17:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both merges per Ecrusized and FL. S5A-0043^Talk 06:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the nominated mergers of both the articles. This article itself is undue and misleading. It should be renamed to a proper title or either be merged or deleted. Muneebll (talk) 10:55, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The link between these skirmishes, the US and the wider Gaza conflict

I notice that the article lacks discussion about the role of these skirmishes in the wider conflict in the Greater Middle East. Virtually all of the media and social media view these attacks in the context of missile strikes in other parts of the Middle East, and in turn that is viewed as being part of the Gaza-Israel conflict and the Houthi conflict in the short term, and more long term a long list of conflict with the US. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 12:45, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uncertain about the media perspective, but personally, I believe it's unrelated to the Greater Middle East conflict and more connected to events around the anniversary of Qasem Soleimani. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 13:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The bombing was certainly related to Soleimani, but surely all the missile attacks are related to the conflict with Israel, and the Houthis part of the wider US-Iran rivalry? CollationoftheWilling (talk) 14:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should be merged into Insurgency in Balochistan, there is no evidence that the air strikes by Iran and Pakistan are related to the United States or Israel, Pakistan supports Palestine and not Israel, this is a conflict caused by Baloch separatism Eupakistani (talk) 05:21, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]