Talk:2023 Louisville bank shooting

Requested move 10 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to 2023 Louisville bank shooting. (closed by non-admin page mover) MaterialWorks (contribs) 16:12, 17 April 2023 (UTC) MaterialWorks (contribs) 16:12, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Louisville shooting → 2023 Old National Bank shooting – The current title should be more specific on where it happened. Unless this becomes the WP:COMMONNAME for this incident, it should be moved to a more specific title. Jennytacular (talk) 15:34, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. Reliable Sources are saying something to the effect of "there is a shooting at a bank in Louisville". Esb5415 (talk) 15:49, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Esb. Would not oppose "Louisville bank shooting." Lettler^{hello • contribs} 17:01, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
• Agree In light of the fact that there have been two other shootings in Louisville so far today (the first, this morning in Newburg, and the third at JCTC), the recommended change in title is needed to clarify which one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentuckian in NY (talk • contribs) 2023-04-10T18:20:22 (UTC)

References

• Oppose because it doesn't say where it happened & is very unlikely to become the common name (except perhaps locally). Move to Louisville bank shooting. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

  Actually there are TONS of reports confirming Old National Bank is where it happened. The bank has even issued a statement confirming it happened in the Preston Pointe branch: https://twitter.com/Old_National/status/1645440826552532996?cxt=HHwWiIC22dft49UtAAAA Kentuckian in NY (talk) 18:42, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I mean that the proposed title doesn't say where it happened. Titles should be usefully descriptive. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Agree, which is why I'm confused by your voting against making it more descriptive, but whatever, thanks. Kentuckian in NY (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

The ONB has many branches in different cities & states; Louisville is more precise. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:30, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it's so much "more precise", but "less ambiguous" than having readers try and guess which Old National Bank was the location of the shooting. I do think adding "bank" to the name would improve the precision though. —Locke Cole • t • c 21:34, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, current title mostly fits WP:NCE, would Support 2023 Louisville bank shooting as the event appears to have taken place completely at the bank. —Locke Cole • t • c 19:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

  @Esb5415, @Lettler, what are your opinions on adding "bank" as suggested? —Locke Cole • t • c 21:35, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

  I don't have a preference. Soft support Esb5415 (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. There are about 200 branches of the Old National Bank. The proposed title is too vague. WWGB (talk) 03:08, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

  Thoughts on 2023 Louisville bank shooting? —Locke Cole • t • c 03:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind the extra specificity, especially as there was an unrelated school shooting in Louisville on the same day.[1] WWGB (talk) 04:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. I would support "2023 Louisville bank shooting": concise with more clarity. Carlstak (talk) 03:55, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support 2023 Louisville bank shooting per everyone else. Love of Corey (talk) 04:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Louisville bank shooting InedibleHulk (talk) 06:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support Needs a more specific title. Nosferattus (talk) 07:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, support 2023 Louisville bank shooting, which seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME based on media reports I've seen DFlhb (talk) 15:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, support 2023 Louisville bank shooting per above. Mooonswimmer 16:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, support 2023 Louisville bank shooting per WP:SNOWBALL above. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:21, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, support 2023 Louisville bank shooting per above. ElementSix (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support either 2023 Louisville bank shooting or Old Dominion Bank shooting. Too many shootings in any larger US city in a year to go with a generic year and city title. Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, support 2023 Louisville bank shooting. There is a shooting in Louisville every week. [2] and it is likely that there will be another mass shooting in Louisville this year [3], depending on one's threshold for "mass". I'm for changing again if the sources settle on a different title. DenverCoder9 (talk) 00:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

JCTC shooting

Is it worth noting in this entry that a couple hours later, there was a second public shooting at JCTC with one (as of this entry) killed? Kentuckian in NY (talk) 17:52, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello Kentuckian in NY, a separate article will need to be made for that topic. If that shooting does not have a connection to this event, a separate article will need to be created. SGT Makarov (talk) 22:38, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

While they were unrelated shootings, one of NBC News' articles did make a connection to the JCTC shooting based on statements: "And as police responded to Old National Bank, some officers had to peel off for another shooting just a mile away, at Jefferson Community and Technical College, officials said." Thus, the JCTC shooting apparently caused some officers to be diverted from responding to this shooting, which does mean that it is at least briefly relevant. --Super Goku V (talk) 02:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, until there is a little more proof then the topic will most likely stay off this article. I do not disagree, but the chances are slim to none. SGT Makarov (talk) 02:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

"Connor James Sturgeon, who was born and raised in Greenville, Indiana"

Am i missing something? The sources says he was raised in Greenville, Indiana, nothing about him being born there Trade (talk) 03:58, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

 Removed. WWGB (talk) 04:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Also ref4 does not mention anything about the rifle being "AR-15 style". The article only identifies the weapon as being a "rifle" Trade (talk) 04:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect. The article that was provided does say "AR-15-style rifle". It explicitly states, "The gun used in the shooting was an AR-15-style rilfe, a federal law enforcement source told CNN." Please check the source before jumping to conclusions. SGT Makarov (talk) 21:17, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Concussions and CTE

Some sources are reporting that Sturgeon had a bad history of multiple sports concussions, indicating that CTE could be a contributing factor. https://nypost.com/2023/04/10/louisville-shooter-connor-sturgeon-was-star-athlete-but-suffered-multiple-concussions/ --Westwind273 (talk) 14:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

NY Post is not a reliable source. WWGB (talk) 15:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

How about these:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/louisville-shooter-connor-sturgeon-cte-b2317865.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-11961127/Head-trauma-expert-urges-schools-prevent-brain-injuries-Louisville-shooting.html Westwind273 (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Daily Mail is not per WP:DAILYMAIL. If it helps, we have a list of sources here that will help with recognizing reliable and non-reliable sources. As for the Independent, it is a reliable source. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Even The Independent is devoid of anything relevant to Sturgeon, reporting "it remains unclear if Sturgeon suffered from the condition" (CTE). Nothing there for Wikipedia. WWGB (talk) 05:19, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

You seem to be unfamiliar with how CTE works. It can only be diagnosed post-mortum by a disseciton of the brain. So if this is "nothing for Wikipedia", then I guess we should delete the whole article on CTE from Wikipedia, since we can never know for certain if anyone has it during their lifetime. Westwind273 (talk) 14:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

But Sturgeon IS dead. Chop chop. WWGB (talk) 00:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. Which is why the Independent is reporting on this. There is a newsworthy upcoming autopsy. Westwind273 (talk) 00:52, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I believe CNN is a reliable source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/us/louisville-kentucky-bank-shooting-thursday/index.html --Westwind273 (talk) 12:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Notability

There is a mass shooting in the United States every day. That is not an exaggeration. [4]. There is one with these many injuries every week.

Perhaps this would be better as part of a list, or a larger article about mass shootings in a timeframe (2023?) or geographic area? DenverCoder9 (talk) 00:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

It's on List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023. A small but significant minority of those listed, including this one, are notable enough for articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 10:57, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

There has been enough sustained media coverage and national attention to warrant an article on this shooting. Compare it to many of the other articles listed at List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023. Love of Corey (talk) 01:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

" A bank manager recalled him as being "low key", and "relaxed", and family members noted that he had depression"

"Buchheit-Sims, a manager at the bank, told CNN Sturgeon had a “monotone personality. His temperament is pretty low key. I’ve never seen the kid get angry or upset about anything in public. He was pretty much just relaxed.”

Doesn't seem to mention depression anywhere Trade (talk) 02:47, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Added relevant citation Bremps! 05:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Sympathetic(?) Perpetrator Information

Hey there, I was taking a look at the article and I noticed the section about the perpetrator has a bit of information written about him that is formed from more sympathetically-worded headlines? If that makes sense?

There is somewhat of a phenomenon where sometimes cisgender white male mass shooters have headlines written about them in a more sympathetic light compared to mass shooters who have minority status, even by comparing the wording and tone of headlines written about Sturgeon and Hale from the recent Nashville shooting you can see a noticeable difference. Multiple headlines written about Sturgeon are talking about his accomplishments, using photos of him during ‘feel-good’ moments and adds details which I feel is quite unnecessary to the shooting and is only there as an attempt to make the reader feel sympathetic towards the shooter, such as the concussions he received in the past for example.

I feel like some small details about the perpetrator’s life is not necessarily needed in this article, as some of the unnecessary details give off a sympathetic undertone to it.

Not sure if I worded all of this very well, but I hope you all can kinda understand what I’m trying to mean here B3251 (talk) 14:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Have you considered that the reason why we dont have the same amount of details about Hale could be because it haven't been reported by the news?--Trade (talk) 16:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Dude, some headlines give off such a sympathetic tone to the point where at first glance one would initially believe Sturgeon was one of the victims. I would ask you why in response to your statement, but if you’d take a few minutes to see how different some news outlets word their headlines based on these two situations you’d understand my point.

The sympathetic tone of headlines being more sympathetic towards white male mass shooters compared to minority mass shooters isn’t a first time occurrence and it certainly won’t be the last B3251 (talk) 16:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any changes you want to the article because i don't know what you are looking for here. --Trade (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I feel like some small details about the perpetrator’s life is not necessarily needed in this article, as some of the unnecessary details give off a sympathetic undertone to it.

^^ what I was referring to here is some of the info about the shooter that, in the grand awakening of this shooting, is not necessary such as the accounts of him having concussions, or being a smart, popular, star athlete. I feel like these details give off a more sympathetic tone towards the shooter by giving focus on Sturgeon's positive attributes from all the way back in his high school career (which was 8+ years ago) when in all honesty it gives off the impression that the shooter is being humanized and shouldn't take away from what they did. There's more focus given toward his high school achievements rather than the fact that he was a disgruntled and deranged employee who murdered people in the first place.

Giving recognition to his old status as a popular, smart, star athlete is irrelevant because it is doing the exact opposite of giving consolation toward the families of the people he murdered. I think some of the unnecessary information about him should be removed/rewritten in order to focus on what's important here. B3251 (talk) 21:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

So WP:WEDONTNEEDIT? Morbidthoughts (talk) 07:47, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Thank you B3251 (talk) 17:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I think the description of Sturgeon as smart and popular is reasonable, as it is at odds with the typical gunman, who is often a loner with grudges. Also, his football concussions may be significant, as his father has requested that his son be autopsied for subsequent chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which can cause erratic behaviour. WWGB (talk) 05:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Deleted the sentence about his use of gender pronouns on Linked in.

Deleted the following sentence:

"In the wake of the shooting, it was also discovered that Sturgeon added preferred gender pronouns to his LinkedIn profile."

Irrelevant/Inappropriate for multiple reasons:

1) LinkedIn prompts users to update their gender pronouns by default.

2) There have been no reports or even speculation that his gender identity played a role in the shooting.

3) He is CIS male and uses he/him pronouns.

4) The article cited as a source is not reporting this as news. Rather, the article is commenting on an attempt by a couple of far right provocateurs to manufacture a controversy by vaguely tweeting about his addition of gender pronouns on his LinkedIn. In other words, the citation directly contradicts the newsworthiness of this factoid.

If this topic is to be included it should only be included in a separate section about the failed attempt to manufacture a controversy through misleading tweets. However, it is probably better to omit it entirely as Wikipedia does not need to document every crackpot tweet ever written. 63.117.227.16 (talk) 21:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Gun auction off

I want to add somewhere to mention that under Kentucky law, the guns seized are auction off to the public. KY law requires auction of Louisville gunman’s firearm | Lexington Herald Leader (kentucky.com) Cwater1 (talk) 15:02, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Motive

I just wanted to note that mental health issues may or may not provide an underlying foundation for committing a crime, but the motive is a person's expressed reason for committing it. Our sources show the perp's desire to make a particular point with this grisly event. Whether there's issues behind that or not is beside the point, and I doubt you'll see sources say something like "he did it cuz he's craaaazy". Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 02:10, 1 April 2024 (UTC)