Talk:2023–2024 Manipur violence

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A news item involving 2023–2024 Manipur violence was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 7 May 2023.

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Warring Groups-2

I have also removed the following part from the section "Warring groups":

"In September, one militant was arrested, along with four other civilians, for travelling with illegal arms wearing police uniforms. After the court granted him bail, he was rearrested by the National Investigation Agency (NIA) and taken to Delhi. Subsequently NIA issued a public warning stating that Myanmar-based insurgent groups were organising to wage a war against India by exploiting the ethnic clashes.^[1]"

References

^ Prabin Kalita, Myanmar-based rebels trying to exploit Manipur unrest to wage war, says NIA, The Times of India, 24 September 2023.

Reasons:

(a) There is no merit of random arrests to be part of the section.

(b) Selective sourcing, say biased view.

(c) Other such arrests are too prominent that reflects opposing view.

Please feel free to discuss if any user/editor have contrary view on this edit. Okenkhwairakpam (talk) 15:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a "random arrest". It was an arrest by NIA, which normally investigates terrorism-related charges. How many such arrests have taken place during this conflict? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Random arrest in the sense of random picking from some arrests by NIA. As for the "How many... in the conflict?", I hope you answered it yourself that you are aware (view previous section talk). Thanks you again. Happy editing. Okenkhwairakpam (talk) 19:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to point out that the Times of India is not generally reliable. See survey at RSN (disclaimer: I have voted there). Chaipau (talk) 12:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:TOI doesn't show a clear consensus on this. I think it can be used with due care. I will find other sources too, just to be sure. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained re-instating of the discussed content. I have removed the following:

"In September, one militant was arrested, along with four other civilians, for travelling with illegal arms wearing police uniforms. After the court granted him bail, he was rearrested by the National Investigation Agency (NIA) and taken to Delhi. Subsequently NIA issued a public warning stating that Myanmar-based insurgent groups were organising to wage a war against India by exploiting the ethnic clashes."

Any contributor of the contrary view may come up with constructive points to discuss and improve the article, especially this section in this case. Happy discussion and happy editing. Thank you. Okenkhwairakpam (talk) 06:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drone Attack

Hi concerned editors, Please review the following information to determine if it is well-sourced and deserves inclusion:

Insurgents in India's Manipur state have carried out a deadly attack on security forces, using drones to drop explosives in what police called a "significant escalation" of violence in the restive northeastern region. A 31-year-old women was killed and six people were wounded Sunday in what police said was an "unprecedented attack" by rebels who used drones to drop the heads of rocket-propelled grenades.

"While drone bombs have commonly been used in general warfare, this recent deployment of drones to deploy explosives against security forces and the civilians marks a significant escalation," Manipur police said in a statement Sunday. The attack outside the state capital Imphal was carried out by "alleged Kuki" rebels, the statement said.

Those injured included an eight-year-old girl -- the daughter of the woman who was killed -- as well three civilians and two police officers. "The involvement of highly trained professionals, possibly with technical expertise and support, cannot be ruled out," the police said.

Sources: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/manipur/woman-killed-daughter-injured-in-firing-in-manipur-by-suspected-militants/article68593169.ece

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/others/woman-killed-4-others-injured-in-fresh-violence-in-manipur-101725196003019.html#google_vignette

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/manipur-violence-2-dead-9-injured-in-firing-by-militants-drones-bombs-gun-attack/articleshow/112973642.cms

https://www.barrons.com/news/indian-insurgents-in-manipur-launch-deadly-drone-attack-88d91d93

https://www.ifp.co.in/manipur/drone-attack-attempt-to-derail-peace-efforts-manipur-government DangalOh (talk) 09:12, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In subsequent development of the drone attack, a second attack was carried out on 3rd September 2024 in a village called Senjam Chirang leikai which is a Meitei village, 3 more people were injured. According to Manipur police, in the combing operation that was carried out, a drone and some weapons were seized.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/manipur/three-injured-in-second-drone-attack-in-manipur/article68598426.ece Dafountainhead (talk) 17:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everything is attributed to Manipur Police, who are not a reliable source per Wikipedia criteria. We need independent sources acknowledging these claims.

The woman and her daughter were targeted by gunfire, not drone attack [1]. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes "Manipur Police" functioning in Churachandpur District which consist of Kuki people is an unreliable source and basically non functional as they let every Meitei house bombed and reduced to dust. Unlike in Imphal and adjoining valley district where Manipur Police still functioning like any other police department of the country. For example in valley district, lots of Meitei militants or extortionist arrest have been made however such arrest has not happened in Churachandpur or Kangpokpi district as the police personnel are of the same tribe. This can be ascertained by the fact that a head constable, Siamlalpaul was suspended for posting a viral video where he was seen posing with armed Militants. In response to the suspension, a 300-400 strong mob burned down the churachandpur DC office and SP office and due to which the DC and the SP were airlifted the next day

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/manipur-mob-barges-into-churachandpur-govt-office-complex-1-killed-101708048106822.html Dafountainhead (talk) 03:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also this NDTV article which dispels a lot of the hype. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about providing attribution, such as intelligence reports and Manipur Police, for the statement? Whatever it may be—drone, bomb, or gun—let's note it as per the sources wiki consider reliable. I think that would be fair. Providing attribution should ensure a balanced perspective. Omitting this information might come across as a strong bias towards a group. Not saying that the bias dosent work the other way too. Lets try to bw more neutral. Regards DangalOh (talk) 04:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we would attribute it to the Manipur Police if and when we decide to add it, But why should we add it at all, given that all we have are vague unsubstantiated claims? There are plenty of important developments that happened over the last 12 to 15 months that haven't been covered yet. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is all fine, but I am amazed that someone would remove 'claimed' for things that can't be calculated with data and are intangible and vague, like 'Meitei majoritarianism,' using sources that employ terms such as 'BJP majoritarianism' and phrases like 'may have,' but then straight out marks data-driven reasons as 'claimed.' And regarding anti-Christian sentiment, do we have data on who was mainly responsible—Hindus or Sanamahists? Isn't there a proper Meitei mainstream group that hates Hinduism as well and wants Sanamahism back? Who destroyed the churches? Followers of which religion? Both together? And the other zo people group is so secular that they dont have any anti hindu or ant sanamahist feeling? Everything here is vague,synthesis, extremely selective using questionable sources, and mainly aimed at pushing a narrative instead of acting as an unbiased encyclopedia.The main editor here is complaining, saying, "No, no, we won’t add this or that because when we wanted this or that to be included, it wasn’t added either." But I'm not going to waste my time here, as there are so many other 'more interesting for me' topics that may need some discussion and attention. Happy editing to you. Prayers for people affected. As usual, i am out of here too. Dont wanna lose my hair over this. DangalOh (talk) 04:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is written by summarising reliable sources. What those reliable sources say are not tagged as "claims", unless there are disagreements among the sources.

The tags that I removed and added yesterday were the original tags that have been there for a long time, and appear to have been vandalised in recent days. -- Kautilya3 (talk)

It seems that drone attack(s) merits entry in the page. For the woman casualty, we might need to look closer if it was from the drone or otherwise. Not read the sources very closely as of now. Just my preliminary view. 2409:408A:809D:7CDA:0:0:1650:28B1 (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Efforts to survey

There has been this problematic sentence in the lead that has been tagged a while ago and never resolved. I have removed it here for discussion.

There have been evictions of Kuki communities as a result of efforts to survey forests, which were ostensibly made to stop the cultivation of poppy.^[1]^[2]^[3]^{[clarification needed]}

References

^ Saikia, Arunabh (13 June 2023). "Why Manipur's civil war is being linked to the narcotics trade". Scroll.in.

^ Binalakshmi Nepram; Brigitta W. Schuchert (2 June 2023). "Understanding India's Manipur Conflict and Its Geopolitical Implications". United States Institute of Peace.

^ "Poppy cultivation, eviction drives, illegal influx, old scars—why Manipur is burning". India Today. 5 May 2023.

None of this is explained in the body, and I need to see explanation of how it summarises the sources. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ethnic -> ethno-religious violence in lede

@Kautilya3, why did you remove ethno-religious violence from lede... The article already mentions attacks on temples and churches, and in the infobox there is also an attack caused by anti-Christian sentiment. There are all sources that make this ethno-religious. 103.241.226.121 (talk) 08:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You need to provide a reliable source for it. In fact, multiple high-quality sources would be needed to make such a claim in the lead. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

confusing infobox

@Kautilya3@Okenkhwairakpam@Haoreima, I don't understand why Meitei genocides written in infoxbox.... What does that mean? i can't undersatnd.... it should renamed with proper meaning or should be removed... it can misunderstood as gonocides of meiteis.. 103.241.226.130 (talk) 15:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[TOI_rebels-1] Prabin Kalita, Myanmar-based rebels trying to exploit Manipur unrest to wage war, says NIA, The Times of India, 24 September 2023.

[2] Saikia, Arunabh (13 June 2023). "Why Manipur's civil war is being linked to the narcotics trade". Scroll.in.

[USIP_June-3] Binalakshmi Nepram; Brigitta W. Schuchert (2 June 2023). "Understanding India's Manipur Conflict and Its Geopolitical Implications". United States Institute of Peace.

[4] "Poppy cultivation, eviction drives, illegal influx, old scars—why Manipur is burning". India Today. 5 May 2023.

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