Talk:2022–23 Premier League

Still draft?

Any reason we haven't gone live with this yet, considering two teams are already confirmed as qualified? Falastur2 ^Talk 02:00, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Well, right now, Brighton and Crystal Palace confimed they stay in the premier league after victories. Joshua Emanuel Melendez12 (talk) 22:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Team Captains

I've been meaning to ask... Why are the captains of the confirmed teams not on the list? TB Chigz (talk) 07:27, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

TB Chigz, because we don't know who will be playing where come August. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 10:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Utd Manager

Shouldn't we leave Ten Hag out of it until he's officially confirmed by United? Especially considering the source quoted is speculation. Norgz1328 (talk) 20:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I hadn't noticed the entry in the managerial changes section, have removed it.Spike 'em (talk) 20:53, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism 31/5/22

Someone has put nottingham forest have won 40 games and got 120 points etc. in the league table-This is not true Katherine Northey (talk) 14:40, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit war over Nottingham Forest non-displayed code...

There was a brief discussion over this pointless edit war, so could we come to a conclusion before changing the code again (and make sure the search and replace doesn't cause collateral damage). Spike 'em (talk) 14:30, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

ok it is very slightly less pointless, I see it is appears exactly once in the displayed article, on the results matrix. Spike 'em (talk) 14:34, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Previous Championship articles seem to use mainly NOT, this page and last (Championship) season have been changed to NTF, and the PL website uses NFO. Any other sources that we should consider? Spike 'em (talk) 15:05, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I honestly don't understand why we're having this discussion to begin with. Especially given the fact that the Premier League website (which is the main source of Premier League updates) uses NFO as Nottingham Forest's abbreviation. Even previous Premier League pages that include Nottingham Forest use NFO as their abbreviation. Since this is a Premier League page, we should consider the update from the Premier League website. TB Chigz (talk) 05:39, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

We're having this discussion because people are edit-warring over the code; how else should we resolve this? The other PL pages use it because you went and changed it about a year ago and no-one else has noticed. All but one the championship pages use NOT. Spike 'em (talk) 05:44, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that change was made because that's what's on the Premier League website, which is the main source of Premier League updates. Correct me if I'm wrong here. TB Chigz (talk) 08:05, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

WP does not have to slavishly follow the PL site. There seems to be a previous consensus to use NOT, and I think consistency within WP articles is a better aim than matching a single external source. Using NOT does raise the question on how we differentiate between Notts County (also listed as NOT on their most recent league season page) and Nottingham Forest, but I don't think they've been in the same league for about 30 years. Spike 'em (talk) 09:02, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

I think it's best if we're to vote on this. Especially since various sites use various codes for that team. Plus different users have their own views on the codes too. 41.220.29.2 (talk) 13:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

My preference (in order) would be NOT, then NOFNFO, then NTF. Spike 'em (talk) 09:21, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

You might not like trying to find a consensus, but it is a key facet of how WP works. Spike 'em (talk) 09:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

My suggestion is let's have a vote on which of the abbreviations between NOT, NFO and NTF best suits that team and we explain why that abbreviation must be used. I think it's only fair we do that. TB Chigz (talk) 10:45, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Vote

• NFO REDMAN 2019 (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

• NFO - Because that's the abbreviation used on the official website and previous Premier League pages with Nottingham Forest's participation use that abbreviation too. TB Chigz (talk) 16:51, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
• NOT For consistency with majority of other WP season articles (i.e. the ones not amended by TB Chigz last year) Spike 'em (talk) 16:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

It's time we make a decision on this once and for all. This discussion is long overdue and I know that only three people voted, but since the season has started, people will be more concerned on the updates regarding the events that take place during the match. So it's time we make a final decision regarding this. Since NFO received two out of three votes, we should use that abbreviation for Nottingham Forest. TB Chigz (talk) 13:50, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Sure, as seemingly the only person to vote against NFO, I'm happy to drop my objection to that (but still object to NTF).Spike 'em (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2022

change Fulham FC Shirt sponsor (chest) to TBA change Fulham FC Shirt sponsor (sleeve) to World Mobile

Source: 82.45.190.127 (talk) 13:21, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done Spike 'em (talk) 13:32, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

References

No Confrence league

Why there no conference league 2001:BB6:7B31:7300:EDD2:ABAB:3547:8C82 (talk) 14:52, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Usually that is for one of the cup winners (EFL or FA Cup) but as, usually, the cup winners are the ones who are already qualified for Europe for league position, the seventh placed side will qualify for the Conference League which is when that will be displayed in the table. It cannot be displayed until late on in the season. Cheers, Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 16:20, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Assists?

As previously mentioned, assists are no longer included in statistics on PL pages

Why not? Where was there a consensus? Why are assists mentioned in Premier League records and statistics?--Berserkur (talk) 21:59, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

I also find it peculiar that that decision was made seeing as most assists (Playmaker award) is one of only three official league awards given based on statistics at the end of the season. It would only make sense to track them alongside goals and clean sheets. Noroftheair (talk) 08:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I was going off the fact that assist tallies were removed from all previous season pages at the end of last season. It seemed like a decision had been made to no longer count them.TheRowdyruffBoys (talk) 13:15, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Was there ever a published consensus or a discussion about them? It seems like the kind of thing that could have some debate on whether to show assists or not. Noroftheair (talk) 07:00, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Please revert to tracking assists

UEFA confrence league

The is no mention of the 6th place qualifying (for now) to the UECL. Why is that?

I will not add it myself as it seems to be a subject of contreversy, as at some point the 6th place was mentioned as a UECL spot. Ophir botzer (talk) 12:20, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTAL? WP:V? The source for the table is the Premier League itself, which highlights 5 teams. Other sources differ. Guardian, football365 show highlight 5 teams, BBC show 7, ESPN, Telegraph none. As it stands the 6th and 7th place teams are contingent on Man Utd's results and the result of the FA Cup, neither of which are certain at present. Once those have some clarity, and more reliable sources show those teams as earning spots then so can we. Spike 'em (talk) 12:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The Premier League doesn't allocate european places, the FA does. The four Champions League places and one Europa League place goes to the Premier League while one Europa League spot is given to the FA Cup winners and the Conference League spot to the winners of the EFL Cup. As it stands they would be redistributed to the sixth and seventh placed teams as the FA Cup finalists and EFL Cup winners would currently qualify for the Champions League. https://www.premierleague.com/european-qualification-explained MatParker1711 (talk) 20:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Arsenal Europa League qualification

Are there any sources confirming they have qualified for at least Europa League? According to hasithappened they can finish no lower than 5th, but they say they can't confirm Europa League until later this week. Is there anything else that can happen to stop them qualifying (another English team qualifying by winning another European tournament)? Spike 'em (talk) 13:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

they have updated to take account of last week's euro results (Man Utd and Chelsea winning their respective competitions could have meant only top 3 qualified for CL by league position) Spike 'em (talk) 20:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Arsenal / other Europe qualification

Arsenal has already qualified for the season 2023/24 of the Champions League. Arsenal with 75 points and Tottenham with 53 points both have six matches in hand until the end of the season. Tottenham can have maximum of 71 points while Arsenal has already passed this digit which means Arsenal are already in next season of the Champions League. You do not need resouces for confiming Arsenal qualifcation to the Champions League, just take your calcualator and insert the digits. Zaki Frahmand 9:13 AEST, 26 April 2023

What about Brighton? Spike 'em (talk) 04:41, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Just to make it clear : As of Wednesday morning, Brighton (and the 3 other teams currently in CL places) can still all overtake Arsenal. Should Brighton fail to win any of their remaining games, or if Arsenal gain 2 further points, then this will no longer be the case. Both teams play tonight, so this may be resolved in 11 hours time, but until then.... Spike 'em (talk) 10:21, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Arsenal have now qualified for CL, and Man City at least Europa League as they can finish at worst 5th. I think this also means that 6th places will qualify for Europe, but it is not certain in which competition. If MC win the FA Cup then their spot for this will pass down to 6th, if ManUtd win, then their League Cup spot in ECL will pass to 6th instead. Not seen any RS confirm this or add a line under 6th on their league table yet. Spike 'em (talk) 07:38, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Extra Europa league place

With the two Manchester clubs already guaranteed for Europe doesn't that add an Extra Europa League place to the table? Govvy (talk) 09:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Not yet: ManU can still finish 8th and win the FA Cup. If they do so, they will take the 2nd EL spot and 6th will take their ECL space instead. Spike 'em (talk) 11:16, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Seeing as this is still being reverted, and there are 4 separate discussions about European qualification, as of 3 May 2023 the following holds :

1. Arsenal and Man City have qualified for Champions League
2. Man Utd have qualified for the Europa Conference League by winning the League Cup, but can still win the FA Cup and/or finish 8th. Should they finish 8th, then 7th will not qualify for Europe.
3. Newcastle can finish at worst 7th, but only if Man Utd finish above them (as Spurs and Villa still have to play each other and can't both finish above them). Should this happen then Man Utd would qualify for at least Europa League by winning the FA Cup, or having the spot for that passed down from Man City, and hence Newcastle would get the ECL place.
4. 6th place will qualify for a place, but it depends on where Man Utd finish and who wins FA Cup as to which competition.

Main source for this is Has It Happened. Spike 'em (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

That justifies my explanation in this edit summary by me is currently wrong but it will become more clearer as the season completes. I was right in removing the Champions League part as Newcastle are not there yet. It is the case that I did not consider Manchester United could still finish 8th therefore 7th would not be the acting ECL place yesterday. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 15:33, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

David de Gea...

... cannot win the Golden Glove until the season is over. I am aware the worst case scenario is he will have it shared but it should not say "won" at this point. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:06, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, it has not been awarded yet. You can't say "DDG won his second..." until after it has happened. Spike 'em (talk) 21:21, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The PL saying he is guaranteed at least a share of the title of not the same as having won it already. Spike 'em (talk) 21:23, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

vandalism 21/5/23

Someone has renamed Manchester City 'CHEATERS' and put them at bottom position and the table keeps being vandalised, so can this page please be protected? Katherine Northey (talk) 05:51, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

thats funny lol. but vandalism is terrible because people shouldn't do such things on such an important website Patriciogetsongettingridofhiswiki (talk) 03:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2023

changing Kanes goal tally to 30 as he scored two goals against Leeds 2A02:3035:81E:5DC6:D1D0:698E:C302:65A1 (talk) 17:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Pinchme123 (talk) 20:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

West Ham United, 2023-2024 UEFA Europa League

West Ham United may qualify for 2023–24 UEFA Europa League if they win 2022–23 UEFA Europa Conference League. 161.132.241.124 (talk) 14:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Is Aston Villa still going to be in the Conference League?

In 2020-21 La Liga, Villarreal finished seventh, giving them a UECL spot, which was vacated after they won the Europa League. The UECL spot was not redistributed because Spain had hit their seven-team maximum for Europe. England also has the same maximum, which means Villa will go out of Europe and Brighton play Conference League, right? Goodboy9796 (talk) 08:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

There's additional berth for cup winners: Europa League GS. Red Devil (talk) 10:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm trying to say that any country can have a maximum of seven teams in European competitions. West Ham, Brighton, Liverpool, Villa, United, Newcastle, City and Arsenal makes eight, right? So being seventh with no cup wins vacates Villa's spot. Goodboy9796 (talk) 08:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

That is not entirely correct, seven places are given via the domestic cup and leagues, and is different per country as some countries have less places on offer to get into Europe. And if a team wins a European Cup they automatically enter a competition again regardless of league place finishes. Govvy (talk) 08:38, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Aston Villa to Europa League?

Guys, now that Man City won the Champions League, shouldnt Aston Villa qualify to Europa League and the Spurs go to Conference qualifiers? Fries Montana (talk) 12:16, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

No,

There is no change to the amount of teams England has in Europe, the additional spot gets handed down through the coefficients to other nations. MCMXCsports (talk) 14:06, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

@MCMXCsports So unfair for England as a whole.

Are you aware of which nation is going to get the spot? Fries Montana (talk) 14:35, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Since the Champions League title holders (Manchester City) have qualified via their domestic league, the following changes to the access list have been made:

• The champions of association 12 (Ukraine) enter the group stage instead of the play-off round (Champions Path).
• The champions of association 14 (Switzerland) enter the play-off round instead of the third qualifying round (Champions Path).
• The champions of association 16 (Czech Republic) enter the third qualifying round instead of the second qualifying round (Champions Path).
• The champions of associations 20 (Turkey) and 21 (Cyprus) enter the second qualifying round instead of the first qualifying round (Champions Path).

Red Devil (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

@Red Devil Thanks so much for the explanation. Again, so unfair for England. Fries Montana (talk) 19:43, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Bump chart?

What is that? I can't read it, it's like really strange blurry graphic. And ugly, can we remove it? Govvy (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Bump charts: https://www.flerlagetwins.com/2017/01/my-thoughts-on-bump-charts-and-when-to_45.html It looks fine to me on a 163 PPI (0.16 mm dot pitch) display. Perhaps it could be made a bit bigger, but I would defer to those who better know the Wikipedia standards on how big inline images/charts should be. Ideally Wikipedia would serve the SVG file to the browser as an object embedded in the HTML. As part of that embedding the browser could then be told to render it at some proportion of the width of the article. However Wikipedia can't do that (yet?), so it converts SVGs to PNGs (Wikimedia uses a 2018 version of librsvg) before sending them to the browser, and while it can be told to scale during the conversion it can't be told to scale them relative to the article's rendered width because the server doesn't have that information. The conversion is where any blurriness and other glitches are introduced (an updated version of librsvg might help...). As far as I know there is no way around this. All that said, I think the bump chart is a *fantastic* addition to EPL season pages. - Wikkiwonkk (talk) 04:43, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

The file tag placing that image on the page is set at 750 pixels wide as a compromise between legibility and the avoidance of interfering with other elements on the page. Doing some tinkering, 1000 pixels wide looks better on my 1920 x 1080 display at work, but part of the image would probably be cut off on the right side of the page on smaller displays. Attempts to use the more common "thumb" setting in the file tag caused the image to display beside the Results table in the section below the League Table section.

Experimentation with a Wikitable version is underway but doesn't seem to have quite the same impact.   EclecticArkie   (talk) 15:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this just an uglier Positions by Round table? I’m pretty sure there is a consensus not to have these on Premier League articles unless I’ve missed something. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 08:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

If it's position by round, can we get rid of it please. Govvy (talk) 17:10, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

I have not seen that chart before. Since I don't see similar charts in recent Premier League seasons after the league returned to an all English lineup, I am voting to remove the bump chart off the article. But I am not aware of any consensus either. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:43, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

There is a consensus to remove PbR, if this is is, it should be removed, but my problem is, It's complete unreadable. Govvy (talk) 08:42, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

92.11.115.204 (talk) 14:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: No reason provided. ☀DefenderTienMinh⛤☯☽ (talk) 15:03, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2023

All editors to use 92.11.115.204 (talk) 14:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: @92.11.115.204 I don't understand what you're talking about :| ☀DefenderTienMinh⛤☯☽ (talk) 15:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Why is it semi-protected? 2A00:23C8:3984:6201:180B:3987:227F:8DA1 (talk) 08:46, 5 August 2023 (UTC)