Talk:2021 ACC men's basketball tournament

Walkover, forfeit, or no contest?

Some sources including Sports Illustrated describe the cancelled games as a forfeit. The Atlantic also quotes the Georgia Tech coach saying that they advanced on a forfeit.. In a similar situation, a large number of media outlets, including ESPN, described the result as both a forfeit and a walkover. The North State Journal refers to Florida State's situation as a walkover. wralSPORTSfan has described both results as a forfeit.

NCAA rules state that you must have five players to start a game, which all of these teams have despite the positive COVID tests. As such, the team was in fact eligible to play. I believe describing the result as a no contest is disingenuous at best. The teams withdrew from a tournament despite not being required to do so, which would make it a forfeit per NCAA rules. Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary (such as a statement from the NCAA or a conference), I believe we should be referring to the cancelled games as either a walkover or forfeit. A link to the relevant article can be provided in either situation for clarity.

theZcuber (talk) 23:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

In ESPN’s article of Kansas withdrawing, forfeit or walkover is not used, same with Virginia and Duke. The box scores [1][2] [3] say uncontested. The NCAA just removed the games from their website, I know Kansas removed it from their website too.--Rockchalk717 23:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

None of them describe it as no contest, though. Uncontested is not the same. I have personally reached out to both the Big 12 and ACC (via their website and Twitter respectively) inquiring as to the official result of these games. Pending an answer, would you be okay changing the brackets to say CAN (for cancelled)? It's a neutral term that carries no implications behind it. theZcuber (talk) 23:56, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

In my opinion, these are "forfeits", as these teams withdrew from the tournament, and the teams that were scheduled to play them were advanced to the next round. What implications do you feel that "forfeit", or "uncontested" bring? Natg 19 (talk) 08:21, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

On second thought, the way that this information is displayed right now is good to me. The team (e.g. Virginia) has been crossed out, with a note explaining that they withdrew from the tournament. Natg 19 (talk) 08:23, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Natg19 that the way it’s displayed now is fine because it makes it very clear what happened. Regarding wording, if it were necessary to give more explanation I would avoid the word "walkover" simply because it’s not a word you often hear used in the United States, at least not in the context of any major team sports. Regarding whether the teams were required to withdraw, bear in mind that the NCAA does not have the final day on the matter. The individual conferences may have stricter protocols. I’m not sure what the ACC's rule is, but I believe I saw something on Thursday in one of the North Carolina media outlets indicating that Duke's withdrawal was necessitated by the ACC's protocol, and I assume UVA probably fell into the same situation (but I didn’t have time to look for info yesterday). 1995hoo (talk) 15:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I do think the current way it is being done is perfect and it avoids using any term. I meant to mention we definitely shouldn’t use the term walkover as this is not well known term, in fact I had literally never heard the term before until it was added to the ACC Tournament page. One reason I feel forfeit is not an appropriate term, outside of no box scores using the term, when a team forfeits, traditionally it is counted as a loss for one team and a win for another. Virginia, Duke, and Kansas all had their records unchanged. But honestly the strike through should end this conversation if we all agree on it. We don’t even need to use any terms other than a note saying “(opponent) advanced in the tournament because (team) withdrew after a player tested positive for COVID-19”--Rockchalk717 15:50, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. "Forfeit" traditionally carries a punitive connotation. I remember a few years ago when the WNBA team from Las Vegas forfeited a game to the Washington Mystics when the Las Vegas players refused to play at the scheduled time due to travel delays. Then, of course, there were the (in)famous Ten Cent Beer Night and Disco Demolition Night when the home teams forfeited after fan riots, as well as the baseball game in Toronto when Baltimore forfeited after their manager pulled his team off the field. There’s nothing punitive about Duke and UVA having to withdraw here—it’s a protective measure, if anything. 1995hoo (talk) 17:22, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. But again, if we’re all in agreement over the current method, “forfeit” or “no contest” is a moot point now.--Rockchalk717 19:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

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