Talk:2020–2023 global chip shortage

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On 18 July 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2020–present global chip shortage to 2020–2023 global chip shortage. The result of the discussion was moved.

Why

I worked at Intel for a few decades. I feel I know plenty about the semiconductor industry. I also worked with Intel's automotive division when it existed. Not much of this is said in the news, so I will say it here in hopes that it will help. Many of the chips used by the auto industry are produced by older semiconductor FABs. Large companies like Intel sell their older FABs to firms that sell to the auto industry. The auto industry likes buying chips that are super cheap as in a few dollars.

Since capacity is somewhat fixed by release of older FABs, there isn't an easy way to increase capacity. Secondly since the auto industry likes to pay only a few dollars for their chips there isn't much incentive for companies to create new capacity. Intel spends billions of dollars on building a new FAB.[1] Steppers for new FABs cost tens of millions, as an example of why a new FAB is so expensive. Intel has been making press announcements about building new FABs for the chip shortage. What Intel doesn't say is that none of those FABs will build chips for the automotive industry. Those FABs will build Intel's most expensive chips like Xeons that often cost more than $1K each.

I am not familiar with TSMC business model, but TSMC seems to contradict some of what I said: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tsmc-says-can-catch-up-with-auto-chip-demand-by-end-june-cbs-2021-05-03/ TSMC says they will be able to meet minimum level of demand by July. Don't know what "minimum level" or "minimum requirement" means.

Summary: The auto industry is acutely hurt by the semiconductor shortage because they like to pay only a few dollars for chips. Other industries that pay hundreds of dollars per chips like the graphics card industry will recover quicker. Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 13:53, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article says that micro controller units (MCU) are built on older semiconductor processes. The older semiconductor process are the larger processes. https://semiengineering.com/automotive-ic-shortage-drags-on/

Automotive MCUs primarily are made on 45nm and larger process nodes, Amsrud said. “There may be a few exceptions down in the 28nm range, but it is predominantly going to be in the 45, 90, 100, 130nm range.

Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 01:00, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology

I believe we should stop citing the COVID 19 Pandemic as the cause of events that were instead spurred by the lockdowns. The pandemic did not mandate lockdowns; as evidenced by the Swedish approach. By citing the pandemic as the cause of the lockdown's woes, we are deflecting the blame from ourselves and to external events, making it easier to make the same mistakes in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:198:103:C620:D1B2:47CA:F1C2:A160 (talk) 14:26, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree! I have added a wikilink to COVID-19_lockdowns in the first sentence, citing them as the main cause, as well as a reference for their effectiveness at reducing the spread of COVID-19. This will be helpful for those resisting lockdowns and using this as an example, so it is not "easier to make the same mistakes in the future." DAID (talk) 23:54, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary Naming Issue:

Should the name not be "2020-Present" Given the most obvious issues & pressures that won't be changed until at least 2022 in even the most optimistic scenarios? Daesin (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, In my view the "2022" in the page title constitutes a forecast and I don't think anyone in the industry is willing to make that prediction. When new fabs are built to make up the shortfall, it takes 2 to 3 years for them to become productive. Finally, once all the companies who are presently building new fabs come online, there is likely to be an oversupply of chips. Dougp01 (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Present" should be changed to "2022". Voproshatel (talk) 18:48, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cyber warfare may have also increased demand

Increase in anonymous hacking would have necessitated increased purchases and also broken many computers and phones in turn may have necessitated purchases since the gadgets have become a part of everyway life and increased hacking might have meant increased purchases and this in itself is a snowball effect / vicious cycle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.174.166.128 (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Make a paragraph dedicated to scalping under the Causes section

I recently rewrote the paragraph regarding Gaming PCS and GPUS to be more general, and include information about other aspects of the pc building process being affected. I did this primarily because I wanted to include the fact that scalping has largely been one of the main causes of limited component availability, skimming through the article, I saw that this was mentioned under the Video Game consoles as well. To avoid redundancy, I think it would be best to consolidate what was said in both sections under a paragraph dedicated to scalping in the Causes section of the article. I would do it myself, but I'm still a novice when it comes to Wikipedia editing, and don't currently have the time. Thanks, Golira (talk) 22:41, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there still a shortage?

Hello all,

I noticed that this event is still listed as ongoing in the current events portal, yet this article has a section about recovery. Has the shortage ended?

(Edit 1/27/22: Typo)

Thank you, Spade6179 (talk) 15:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I just went shopping for a video card for low-end prosumer video editing, and found a 'cheap' solution at twice the price it sold for six years ago. On the Adobe recommended hardware list, it's hard to shop with less than USD $300. I'd say it's another six months before we see a more traditional price structure return—if it's actually returning as some people are now beginning to forecast. — MaxEnt 20:39, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In case my point is unclear, the current price structure exists because there's so much demand at the profitable high end of the market, hardly any production is allocated to what used to be value segment in the middle, for those willing to lag behind the new sexy by three or four years. — MaxEnt 20:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bad parse

From early 2020,

when the effects of and the mitigation of the COVID-19 pandemic caused disruptions in supply chains and logistics

which,

coupled with a 13% increase in global demand for PCs
owing to some countries' shift to a stay-at-home economy,

impacted the availability of key chips

necessary for the manufacturing of a broad swathe of electronics.

This simplifies down to:

When the effects which impacted availability.

Or maybe:

From early 2000s which impacted availability.

It's my hobby lately to find these fattened geese on wikipedia, and then squeeze the goose into a parse tree. — MaxEnt 20:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coda: It took me a moment, but the technical problem is the word 'when', which subordinates the following verbiage. The core parse ought to be:

The [stuff of] pandemic impacted availability.

— MaxEnt 20:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rename article to 2020-2022?

The chip shortage is over! That Russia and China have problems getting some Chips or equipment is not enough and not because there arent enough, not because of a shortage. The chip market is currently saturated and stocks for wafers and produduct are rising while new fabs, which were planned and built since 2020 are just starting to produce more product. Soon we will see an overproduction, a price war and some fabs will be sold or closed or re-purposed. It was quite clear from the beginning that the short term shortage will lead to overcapacities especially with US and EU both pushing their own chip industries to become less dependent on other countries.

The bubble is just starting and maybe in 2-3 years it will burst and companies will get bust. I can't really know the future, but I can see that overproduction already started. Do ut des (talk) 20:14, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, chip shortage doesn't seem like a "present" issue anymore. Theknine2 (talk) 12:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 13:55, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2020–present global chip shortage → 2020–2023 global chip shortage – Global chip shortage does not seem to be a "current" issue anymore, with major sectors such as cars, game consoles and GPUs already being stable in supply. Theknine2 (talk) 12:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I also note that the article is already flagged as needing updating to reflect this. Andrewa (talk) 13:42, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Change article name to sentence case

Change article name to sentence case, please. Nurg (talk) 07:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I want too. However, it currently can't be moved to 2020–2023 global chip shortage yet because it already redirects to this article. As it turns out, this article already had that title before, but then the following happened:

December 8, 2023: Lukt64 moved page 2020–2023 global chip shortage to Global chip shortage (2020 - present): Add parentheses/disambiguator
December 8, 2023: Lukt64 moved page Global chip shortage (2020 - present) to Global chip shortage (2020-present)
December 9, 2023: Coldbolt moved page Global chip shortage (2020-present) to Global chip shortage (2020-2023): The page is outdated but there is for sure no global chip shortage anymore.
December 11, 2023: Opencooper moved page Global chip shortage (2020-2023) to Global chip shortage (2020–2023): MOS:ENDASH
February 24, 2024: Yeoutie moved page Global chip shortage (2020–2023) to 2020–2023 Global chip shortage: Move back to most recent agreed upon title at Talk:2020–present global chip shortage#Requested move 18 July 2023

However, the user who requested a move specifically asked for 2020–2023 global chip shortage with a lowercase g, which would have to be deleted so this article can be moved back there again. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 19:46, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]