Talk:2018 Gaza–Israel conflict

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2018 Gaza–Israel conflict redirect.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Mid	This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Mid‑importance

This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Mid

This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Military history: Asian / Middle East / Post-Cold War

This redirect is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Merge with Gaza-Israel Conflict

The page Gaza–Israel conflict already exists, and its 2018 section is currently just one sentence. Perhaps this page would be better suited as a section on the main page? Alternatively, this article could also be expanded/merged with 2018 Gaza border protests. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 09:28, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I created this page. There is a "2014 Israel–Gaza conflict" page. If we could summarize the events of 2018 in a few lines, then there would be no point to create a new page. What is so unique about the 2018 conflict? The fire-kites and the massive ecological damage. I think there should be a page that explains this in detail. From what I understand they have managed to burn land that is the size of a city and this new form of warfare has not ended. The "Gaza border protests" is a page that is intended specificly to talk about the border. --Jane955 (talk) 13:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jane955: You are not allowed to edit ANY page dealing with the Arab Israeli conflict, regardless of it being locked or not. - Galatz גאליץ ^{שיחה Talk} 14:22, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone here edit, or are you just here to enforce wikipedia rules? What are you going to do, delete this page, since I created it with less than 500 edits?--Jane955 (talk) 15:44, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Let me see if I have the facts correct. You created a page because you couldn't edit the existing one. You filled that page with copyright violations. You then are unhappy that other people aren't editing the page you created, that never was needed anyway. Rather than attempting to contribute you instead get an attitude. Did I miss anything? - Galatz גאליץ ^{שיחה Talk} 16:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to waste time arguing with you, but I did look at the Hebrew Wikipedia page: Confrontations on the Israeli-Gaza border 2018

- העימותים בגבול ישראל-רצועת עזה They do list current events and about the fires, until June. The only problem is the title. The fires are unrelated to the border protests. I obviously did not create a new page because I could not edit somewhere else. I anyway have almost 500 edits. I meant to say that if this page gets deleted, this information should be written on another page, by other editors. What frustrates me is the attitude of the editors here in contrast to the Hebrew Wikipedia pages, where they work together and collaborate to create accurate, well written pages.--Jane955 (talk) 23:35, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Extended Confirmed Protection

I have requested that this page be considered for Extended Confirmed Protection under the decisions of the Arab/Israel conflict arbitration.Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 09:32, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why? I would not be able to edit. You certainly don't want to contribute to this page and discussing the ecological damage of the fires is a neutral subject. Wildlife does not have a religion.--Jane955 (talk) 13:52, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Gaza Strip is a volatile issue in real life and on Wikipedia. I'll admit that I hadn't heard about the fires before, but the issue is definitely larger than just that. The issue is complex and multi sided, and this article should reflect that. The 2014 article is lengthy and at a glance appears to be well done. I hope this article can approach that status. To get there, it needs to include information about the 2018 border protests, and much more. 2018 is not yet over, so there will be more to add I suspect; however as the conflict is so controversial it seems the best way to prevent future vandalism is to protect it as spelled out by the arbitration committee's decision on the Arab/Israel conflict. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 19:30, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That is the problem Captain, that you haven't heard about the fires. This kind of thing doesn't usually get reported in the west. --Jane955 (talk) 23:08, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Title Change/Page Move

The article 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict, which I believe this page to be an essential successor of, orders Israel first and Gaza second in the name. This page reverses that order. However the main Gaza–Israel conflict page puts Gaza first and Israel second, matching this page's title. Perhaps I'm just splitting hairs here but it seems standard wiki practice to pick an order and stick with it. That helps people find pages easier, and cuts down on the confusion. Would love some feedback from you folks if you think that the name should change or stay. (Please limit your arguments to issues of grammar and formatting, the other pages have already had numerous more political conversations about naming and have reached using Gaza-Israel or Israel-Gaza as the most politically neutral. Thanks!) Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 19:45, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Delete decision

Does this page stay or do you want to merge it or delete it? --Jane955 (talk) 18:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Although I started the section mentioning the merge, I am of the opinion that with sufficient work to expand the article and incorporate info from the border protests, and other incidents that have occurred in 2018 that this article can stand by itself. In some ways it seems that we will have to wait till the end of 2018 to ultimately determine this page's fate, since we have no idea what the future will bring. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 01:34, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by determine this page's fate? If it will eventually get deleted, it would be a waste of time to work on this.(so the editors need to decide if this page stays or goes) There is a page for border protests. I think this page should focus for now on the fire-kites (a new type of warfare) and the massive damage they caused. I know this shouldn't be personal (I'll probably delete this) but I lived in that region for 4 years. Its super hot, desert climate, mostly sand everywhere. To add fires to this type of environment is devastating, especially to wild life who struggle to survive. On the other hand, you have Palestinian teenagers who found a new "toy" to play with that costs them about 20 NIS. That's basically also how Israelis viewed them until a few weeks ago...until it got out of control. Now things have "slowed down" with talks of a cease fire. Yesterday, there was "only" one large fire in Kibbutz Nahal Oz, compared with 10 to 20 daily fires that have occurred over the past few months. Imagine, a fire a day being something that is seen as normal in a desert region that is also under rocket attack. Anyway....I'm ok with what ever the editors decide.--Jane955 (talk) 04:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification: I don't think the page should be deleted but it is possible that it could be merged. But your discussion seem to indicate that the issue is large enough to warrant its own page. Precedent for a dedicated page already exists, so it seems likely this one will stay. The original reason I suggested the merger was admittedly partially a quality issue, oftentimes poorly written articles are a product of insufficient notability/sources and thus are better as a mention on another page instead of a very bad main article. The firekite issue is important and should be addressed, but it shouldn't be the only topic of this article. If you want to ensure that this article stays you could help and find reputable sources and put them here on the talk page so that they can be used to expand the main article.Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!} 04:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I always start by looking at Ynet because they have the best current updates. Jpost also has good articles. They are both in Hebrew and English and then I will sometimes read foreign News. Once in a while I even read Al Jazeera. They are anti Israel but its good to have these kind of sources, to show the other side's perspective. For example, they talked about the desperation caused by the latest blockade. My focus is on the content, so I have no idea which one I will use. Also, things happen so fast that if you don't document, or write them down you kind of lose the picture and how and why things started and escalated. What should be discussed here is which topics will be included and then we can look for good articles. Do we talk Iran? That they fund Hamas and expect them to deliver? Do we write about Egypt and Hamas? As for lack of quality, well that might be because there are no editors who want to help.--Jane955 (talk) 11:26, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, what do you think about a section to discuss AVERA MENGISTU? He is an Ethiopian Israeli who was kidnapped by Hamas. His community has been trying to get the government's attention. They feel like no one cares because he is Ethiopian. I saw them protesting about 2 months ago in Jerusalem, so this is also a current topic, regarding Gaza-Israel.--Jane955 (talk) 11:47, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I asked editors from the Hebrew page to help here, if they don't, then it might be better to delete this page. I feel like you and the other editors are just here to criticize, judge but not to actually do any work.--Jane955 (talk) 01:25, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]