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Former FLC2010 Summer Youth Olympics medal table is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 15, 2010Featured list candidateNot promoted

Mixed team events

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NOTE: Much of the earlier discussion that has gone stale has now been archived to /Archive 1.

Re-cap of all issues settled and still being settled

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Settled
  1. The official term is "Mixed-NOCs" (and "mixed-NOCs team" and "mixed-NOCs team event" etc).
  2. Every single medal won must be counted in the medal count. Even if the medal was won in a pure mixed-NOCs team event.
  3. The collective label of "Mixed-NOCs" in the medal table will remain and account for every single medal won by a mixed-NOCs team.
  4. The Mixed Team (ZZX) code is historical and retained only to describe the 1896–1904 Olympic Games, and is not used in the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics.
  5. Medals won by mixed-NOCs teams should not be included in single-NOCs' medal counts. (But given a mention in the articles on the single-NOCs)

— ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 15:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Still being settled
  1. How the nation at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics articles should mention the respective nation's participation in mixed-NOCs.
  2. There must be mention, linked to the Mixed-NOCs label, that there were events that purely comprised mixed-NOCs teams, and there were some that did not. How that should be made is still a question.

— ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 15:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion arising from the re-cap (Ended)
:I still think some form of mention should be made for mixed-NOC medals in mixed pure-NOC/mixed-NOC events. Strange Passerby (talk) 08:37, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have included that as an issue to resolve. Let us settle these issues one-by-one. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 15:19, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
make a new template with the code MIX (or whatever) for this "Mixed-NOCs", also I think it's better to rank "Mixed-NOCs" in the table. I can't see any agreement on the cause in the talk page. --Mohsen1248 (talk) 14:17, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually codes are only handed out because the IOC officially uses and publishes them (see List of IOC country codes). MIX is not used to the best of my knowledge. There is also agreement on leaving it unranked. E.g. 85.167.108.43: "I agree with mixed NOCs being unranked in the table", 85.167.109.5: "I... suggests that mixed-NOC teams (MIX?) appear unranked in the medal table", David Biddulph: "Show Mixed-NOC in the existing table, unranked", and of course include me too. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:46, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I believe all 85.167 edits on this page to be mine. For some reason unknown to me, my IP appears to change occasionally. I've never noticed that before, and I think I'd better sign up if I am ever involved in such a long discussion again. I am very sorry if this has caused problems or is against any policy. 85.167.109.50 (talk) 15:29, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, it does change occasioally. It's not a problem though in this case. Wikipedia is always open to IPs anyway. See WP:WHY though for info on account creation :D ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 15:52, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mixed Team Medals - It's mighty simple

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Proposal and subsequent discussion (Ended)
# All athletes compete for particular NOC, therefor win medals for their country (both individually and in team competitions). Say to the athletes and their NOCs, its isn't so!
  1. Team competition format (mixed or not) is irrelevant to the fact that medal is awarded to the individual representing particular NOC in any competition of any format
  2. Olympic flag discussion is irrelevant to the medal discussion because no single nation flag could be used in mixed competitions
  3. There are no 3 Team Medals, but there are 3 places that entitle athletes in a team for 3 physical sets of medals. The place awarded to a team, but a medal awarded to an individual and by extension to the country they represent. Temporary mixed team does not hold the record, but athlete does, and so his/her country.

Consequentially, if we do not count one and only Silver medal, which Turkish athlete won in a mixed event, we effectively agree that Turkey did not have any medals in fencing for count purpose whatsoever. Literally speaking we exclude Turkey from medals count in fencing and in total.

Also from athletes' record prospective their won an Olympic <type> medal in a team event for <country> (see sporting templates), effectively becoming dual Olympic m edallists for their countries. NOCs report team medals as such: [1] [2]

It's mighty simple: Medal is a Medal. No troll (talk) 16:55, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I find it highly irresponsible that you have apparently chosen not to read the discussion to date (including in the archives) and the consensus that has been reached over how to credit mixed NOC medals. The question now is how to display the mixed-NOC medals. I would say there is no consensus for your proposal. Strange Passerby (talk) 17:07, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That is incorrect assumption. A consensus on some items has been reached between 15:18 and 15:55. I was in edit window at this time and did not see last edits having read all the discussion before that and preparing my post. Since it would be waste of time to answer to all the arguments, I was working on summary, apparently along with other Wikipedian. When I published my post at 16:55, I found both concensus notes (in which I did not take part) and your note. Since one can't presume that all parties are on-line at all times, the concensus should have taken taken at least few days, not a few hours. Therefor I dismiss your comment about my irresponsibility towards the discussion. Regards No troll (talk) 17:26, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It did take a few days. I repeat: did you read the archives? As pointed out in the section above this, this issue has been settled. Strange Passerby (talk) 17:28, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Do you read what you write Passerby? You said at 17:07 "I would say "there is no consensus for your proposal" and at 17:28 "this issue has been settled". Is your mind has been settled on the issue? What action have been or planned to be taken? No troll (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Simple. "this issue has been settled" and "there is no consensus for YOUR proposal" - David Biddulph (talk) 17:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. Since it was not my proposal but facts based on NOC's issued information, I'll stay with facts and you may stay with concensus decided in absence of facts. Cheers No troll (talk) 18:13, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, thank you for the support. Your link from an NOC was very clear: "On Wednesday, fencers competed not for their countries but instead for their continent in the mixed team event at the 2010 Youth Olympic Games." Crystal clear! David Biddulph (talk) 18:27, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, you failed to see that the purpose of the American article article was to report American Bronze medalists in the event (in bold) mentiong "alongside" fencers of Canada and Canadian Article was even called "Canada Sees First Two Multi-Medallist Youth Olympians"!!! And tell it to the Turkish fencer that he did not bring his country a medal when you meet him ...No troll (talk) 18:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. "Canada sees first two multi-medallist Youth Olympians" — the Olympians are multi-medallists; not the NOC. Strange Passerby (talk) 07:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Occam's razor Here is a quick dissection of what just happened; I am going to be candid - we can't afford to go around in circles with new members of the discussion proposing stuff that are already out of the question. No troll said that:"All athletes compete for particular NOC, therefor win medals for their country" - that is inherently wrong. Not all athletes compete a particular NOC. Some compete for more than one NOC. As a result, point 2 fails. Point 3 which says that the Olympic flag is irrelevant is irrelevant in itself. No one is bothering about the Olympic flag now. Point 4 doesn't make sense, or at least from what I try to comprehend of it. The paragraph right after point 4 seems to be correct but the expression if flawed - it is an example anyway, so does not alter the fundamental argument. The second paragraph after point 4 is not, I repeat not, relevant to our discussion. It is about a different thing (read it again and you realise there is no direct link to mixed-NOCs.) ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 06:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The comments made by No troll after his proposal was grounded in "facts based on NOC's issued information, I'll stay with facts". Because the facts were arrived at wrongly, all subsequent comments do not properly explain a point. No troll, if you wish to support your argument, we would highly appreciate if you could first give us a three-sentence summary of what changes you intend to make. Three succinct sentences, and of course no grammatical errors. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 06:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
From the Canadian link provided: "Alexandre Lyssov (Richmond Hill, Ont.) and Alanna Goldie (Calgary) [two Canadian athletes] were part of a team representing North America", i.e. not their NOC.85.167.109.50 (talk) 06:53, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That is actually a brilliant example. It would serve as evidence to substantiate the current agreement on non-NOC representation. And your IP has just jumped again, sigh :D ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 06:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion can be closed. I concur. No troll (talk) 13:26, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay that's great, we can close this discussion now. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another issue – Making a mention on mixed-NOCs in the article

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This is issue to be settled number 2, taken from the #Re-cap of all issues settled and still being settled. The issue is that in the article (medal table), we must make mention that the mixed-NOCs medals won came either from events that were purely comprised of mixed-NOCs teams or events that comprised mixed-NOCs teams and single-NOC teams. This is so that readers will fully grasp the 'achievements' of mixed-NOCs – that some medals would inevitably be won by mixed-NOCs teams. Should we place a footnote next to the Mixed-NOCs label, and in the footnote introduce this? Or should we introduce this in the lead section of the article and do away with the footnote? Of course, in our mention we will definitely prompt readers to access the mixed-NOCs article (no disagreement about this?). ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 07:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the need for this detail to be introduced into the medal table. This information can already be seen at Mixed-NOCs participation at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics. David Biddulph (talk) 07:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe just a short footnote: "Includes medals awarded in inter-continental events"? I've gone ahead and added a second count (1-0-1 at the moment) to the main mixed-NOC article to distinguish between the two. So maybe this isn't as much of an issue. Strange Passerby (talk) 08:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Re-reading the article, this appears to have been covered in the article lede, so this point is moot now. Strange Passerby (talk) 14:10, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why we are doing this is that most will not understand what mixed-NOCs refers to. We should at least have a sentence or two to explain what it is. After all, while internal links are a strength of Wikipedia, not all readers will bother to check out the mixed-NOCs article. There will be a link supplied in the mention regardless, if they wish to know more. The mention will go something like "Mixed-NOCs refers to teams made up of athletes from different NOCs..." ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 08:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Mixed-NOCs in this medal table is a collective term referring to medals won by mixed-NOCs teams, teams which comprise of athletes from more than one NOC. There were four mixed-NOCs team events, events which comprised entirely of mixed-NOCs teams, and as such all medals (4 gold, 4 silver and 4 bronze) would be swept by mixed-NOCs teams in these events. The remaining medals were won in events which had both mixed-NOCs teams and teams representing one NOC. Refer to the main article for further information." So this will be placed in the introduction. Any objections? ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. The number four is a few days old. I think it is six, based the current count of 7 gold, 6 silver and 7 bronze medals. 85.167.109.50 (talk) 14:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, the mixed-NOCs article has been updated. 7 mixed-NOCs team events altogether - all except one has completed. I will update the mention accordingly. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Final issue – Mentioning mixed-NOCs participation in the various individual nations and events articles

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Apologies for raising this days after the last discussion ended. Let's just get this done with shall we? Okay, we must ensure that information on mixed-NOCs is present in the relevant nations and events articles which were involved in mixed-NOCs (e.g. Italy at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics and Athletics at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics – Boys' medley relay). Do we create an entire section solely to explain mixed-NOCs and the nation/event's involvement in them? Or just have a sentence or two in the lead in to do so. And do we also create a separate mixed-NOCs medal table, different from the original medal table, in these articles? Just some questions, there are probably more. Do share with me your opinions. Cheers, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 11:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the individual nations' pages it might help if Template:Infobox Country Youth Olympics were changed so that instead of "Medals" it says something like "Medals (not including mixed-NOC teams)". The medals won by that nation's individuals in mixed-NOC teams can be included in the list of medallists on that nation's page (as they already are in many cases), so long as we don't confuse the numbers in the summary. David Biddulph (talk) 12:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I quite like how this is dealt with on Belgium at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics, and I also like the use of italics on Italy's page. A sentence and link just above the list of medalists should be sufficient to explain. The event page could include more details (if known) of how the teams were made; e.g. whether they were continental, or whether past results (which past results?/is there an official ranking?) decided who was Europe 1 or 2. For the sport page a short sentence stating that "In this sport # event(s) was contested between mixed-NOCs teams" or, when appropiate, "between mixed-NOCs teams and single-NOCs teams". If consensus becomes to not keep separate event pages for the Youth Olympics additional information could be added to the sport pages. I'm the same editor as 85.167.#.#; my IP seems to have changed more completely now, but as we are nearly finished with these discussions it will hardly present a problem. 88.88.162.109 (talk) 20:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First medal/gold at the Olympics

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"A total of nine nations (...) won their first ever medals at the Olympics." When this was moved and rephrased, was the removal of Vietnam's first gold intentional? If not, I believe the Virgin Islands (ISV) also got their first gold. Is "at the Olympics" correct, or would "at an IOC event" be better? These are merely questions; i.e. this is not an issue that I will discuss further. 85.167.109.50 (talk) 13:54, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer "at an Olympic event", myself. Vietnam did indeed win their first Olympic-branded gold, so that needs to be reinstated. Strange Passerby (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Virgin Islands have only won one silver previously, making this the first gold. The same events also marks the last appearance and medal for the Netherlands Antilles. This could perhaps be added to their page. 85.167.109.50 (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For all of you who are trying to edit the medal table...

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...DON'T! Strange Passerby and I have reviewed all of the results pages very vigorously and Strange Passerby's final version stands as is. Peru, Romania, Spain, Turkey, and whoever else you're thinking of editing have won their respective medals as part of mixed-NOC events; they share those medals with athletes from other nations. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 09:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The mixed-NOCs medals is a consensus a number of editors, not just myself, have discussed before. As pointed out, there is no agreement to add these medals to the individual nations. If anyone else spots any anonymous user adding mixed-NOCs medals, please do help to revert. Thanks! Strange Passerby (talk) 09:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hey guys, maybe you should consider pending changes protection or even semi-protection for the article? Just a suggestion. Cheers, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:36, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think it wouldn't be a good idea unless it got really bad. Give it two weeks and I think most of the attention will die off. Strange Passerby (talk) 11:14, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's kind of really bad now right? I mean few articles are actually receiving more unconstructive edits than this. You can apply for temporary week/fortnight-long protection. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, here's a question: How do you apply for protection? I'm kinda new here, so help me out please. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 22:53, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
here, I'm agree with AngChenrui --Mohsen1248 (talk) 23:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be as simple as possible about why I'm against it. It's not currently at the level of vandalism; these are good-faith edits made because the anon users, first and foremost, probably have had local news sources reporting mixed medals as medals for their countries. Strange Passerby (talk) 00:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If we were to apply for semi pro to this page, then I'd argue that you do the same for every other nation page getting hit by mixed-NOC medal changes. Strange Passerby (talk) 00:27, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with User:Strange Passerby on this one. After all, this whole "Mixed-NOC" issue is still being disputed because it's a new concept. Some people still believe that even the words "Mixed NOCs" are out of bounds. We'll just have to bear with the anons' changes and just deal with it. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 00:33, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mixed medals, redux

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2010 Summer Youth Olympics#Medal table also ought to be watched, I think we're starting to border on vandalism now, considering the latest edit here by 109.53.0.87. Strange Passerby (talk) 06:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here I have to disagree with you, Strange Passerby. I don't believe that that is vandalism; the anon was just stating a fact. Maybe it is politically biased, but I do believe that that phrase should be included, maybe just modified to a point of neutrality. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 08:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It should not be included unless there are verifiable reliable sources for it; indeed there are sources out there which show the contrary, that many NOCs do not consider these mixed-NOCs medals as their own. This isn't included in the article either; if the original claim is re-added with sources, then the other side should be presented too. Strange Passerby (talk) 08:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, that line is there describing how Wikipedia deals with the situation; how one or two NOCs address the mixed medal issue should not override Wikipedia consensus. After all, it's already been made clear that this is an unofficial medal table. So in this context, I'd say the line isn't notable enough to consider mentioning. If there's a serious controversy over NOCs claiming mixed medals then that can go into its own controversy section. Strange Passerby (talk) 08:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello guys, I'm the user that added the lines about the agreement among the NOCs and CIO about the mixed team medals. I thought to add that information to make a bit more accurate the controversy about the 2010 YOG medal table, because wikipedia should be a description of the reality, not an interpretation based on the votes of internet users. I also chose to report some notes taken from some of the NOCs involved in the mixed team events to make my informations verifiable, but my lines were cancelled twice. So today I decided to show you here the total amount of proofs I consulted before deciding to write my lines on wikipedia. It was a hard work I did for you and it is a big bunch of news, so I pray you to be patient if interested in. Thank you.

  1. The Australian Olympic Committee talks about its team in these terms: "On the final day of competition for the Aussies, athletes won four medals, pumping the total number medals won to 32 - 8 gold, 15 silver and 9 bronze" (http://singapore2010.olympics.com.au/news-item/aussies-wrap-games-with-medals) counting the 2 silvers and 1 bronze from mixed team events inside its own medals amount.
  2. United States Olympic Committee publishes an article to congratulate the 82 members of Team USA at Singapore 2010 for winning 25 medals (6 gold, 9 silver, 10 bronze); verifiable at this link: http://youtholympicgames.teamusa.org/news/2010/08/26/u-s-olympic-committee-congratulates-youth-olympic-athletes-international-olympic-committee-singapore-organizing-committee/38234
  3. UK Olympic Committee marks the mixed team events medals with asterisks, but it talks clearly about 13 medals won in 8 sports by Great Britain (verifiable here http://www.olympics.org.uk/news.aspx?ne=4552)
  4. Il Comitato Olimpico Italiano (Italian OC) reports that Italy have won 25 medals. This link is very very important because the Italian OC explicitly explains that in Singapore 2010, for mixed team events, the medals were assigned to each nation of the teams (Per quanto riguarda il medagliere l’Italia con 8 ori, 10 argenti e 7 bronzi (nel caso delle squadre miste è stata assegnata una medaglia per ciascuna delle Nazionalità presenti), occupa la quinta posizione dietro a Cina, Russia, Corea e Ucraina). You can see that scrolling the page at this link: http://www.coni.it/index.php?id=2350&no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8454 (please write manually the link in your browser, because the brackets make some problems)
  5. Canadian Olympic Committee says Canada won 12 medals, considering the bronze medal of fencing mixed teams in the same way Italian Committee explained. You can see the article here: http://www.olympic.ca/en/news/canada-wins-bronze-final-day-brings-home-12-medals/
  6. El Comite Olimpico Brasileiro (Brazilian OC) literally says that Brazil won 7 medals: 3 golds, 3 silvers, 1 bronze(Confira as medalhas do Brasil nos Jogos Olímpicos da Juventude Cingapura 2010: Ouro: David Lourenço (boxe), Caio Cezar Fernandes no salto em distância (atletismo); Caio Cezar Fernandes no revezamento medley (atletismo). Prata: Felipe Wu (tiro esportivo), Thiago Bráz no salto com vara (atletismo) e Flávia Gomes (judô). Bronze: handebol feminino) verifiable here: http://www.cob.org.br/noticias/noticias_interna.asp?id=15759.
  7. Russia won an incredible number of medals at the YOG in Singapore 2010, 49 medals (20 gold, 17 silver, 12 bronze), Russian Olympic Committee says here: http://www.olympic.ru/ru/n_news.asp?id=13546&rub=1 (Российскую сборную, занявшую на I летних юношеских Олимпийских играх в Сингапуре второе место в неофициальном зачете, торжественно встретили в аэропорту "Домодедово". Россияне привезли внушительное число медалей - 49, из них 20 золотых, 17 серебряных, и 12 бронзовых.)
  8. New Zealand Olympic Committee says in this article http://www.olympic.org.nz/nzoc/news/youth-olympic-games-%E2%80%93-day-11-wrap: (New Zealand finished with seven medals from one gold, five silvers and one bronze.)
  9. Greek Olympic Committee said that Greece won 5 medals (2 silvers and 3 bronzes); information verifiable here: http://www.hoc.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=673%3A2010-08-25-15-47-43&catid=36%3Apress-release&Itemid=98&lang=el (Η Ελλάδα κατέκτησε στους Ολυμπιακούς Αγώνες, πέντε μετάλλια, δύο ασημένια και τρία χάλκινα σε σύνολο 28 αθλητών και αθλητριών που πήραν μέρος)
  10. Türkiye Milli Olimpiyat Komitesi (Turkish OC) counts in its own medal table those medals won in mixed team events; it says Turkey won 13 medals (1 gold, 4 silver, 8 bronze); verifiable here by internet translation: http://www.olimpiyatkomitesi.org.tr/tr/Sporcularimiz/Genclik-Olimpiyatlari/Haberler (14-26 Agustos 2010 tarihleri arasinda Singapur’da düzenlenen 1. Gençlik Olimpiyati’nda Türkiye 1 altin, 4 gümüs, 8 bronz olmak üzere toplam 13 madalya kazandi. 205 ülkeden 3600 sporcunun mücadele ettigi oyunlara 15 dalda 55 sporcu ile katilan Türkiye’den 9 dalda 13 sporcusu kürsüye çikti)
  11. Swiss OC says that Switzerland had a positive balance on the first YOG by winning 4 medals: (Das Swiss Youth Olympic Team, das heute in die Schweiz zurückgekehrt ist, war in Singapur mit 22 Nachwuchsathleten aus 11 Sportarten vertreten und gewann insgesamt vier Medaillen: Gold durch Martin Fuchs im Team-Springreiten, Silber durch Leichtathletin Andrina Schläpfer über 1000 Meter und zweimal Bronze durch Noemi Zbären über 100 Meter Hürden und Schützin Jasmin Mischler mit dem Luftgewehr.) Article verifiable here: http://www.swissolympic.ch/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-4025/5098_read-34595/
  12. Fiji Association of Sports and Olympic Committee proudly announces that Fiji won its first ever olympic medal thanks to Lepani Naivalu (mixed team event): http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-3653-0-0-0&sID=35619&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=13089106&sectionID=35619
  13. Comitetul Olimpic si Sportiv Roman (Romanian OC) says that Romania won 7 medals plus 2 bronze from mixed team events for a total of 9, occupying the 21st position in the medal table; verifiable here: http://www.cosr.ro/stire.html?id_stiri=589
  14. Polish OC says that Poland Junior Team won 9 medals (2 golds) in Singapore: (Nasza Mlodziezowa Reprezentacja Olimpijska zdobyla w Singapurze 9 medali w tym dwa z najcenniejszego kruszcu); verifiable here: http://www.pkol.pl/pl/pages/news/4076
  15. South Africa Olympic Committee considers the 1 silver and 1 bronze won by its athletes in mixed team events as part of its medals amount, claiming that South Africa won 11 medals in Singapore: http://www.sascoc.co.za/2010/08/neuhoff-wins-medal-no11-for-sa/
  16. Belgian OC describes belgian medal table at this link: http://www.olympic.be/Spelen/Olympischejeugdspelen/MedallistsYOG/tabid/276/language/nl-NL/Default.aspx and in this article it affirms that Belgium won one more silver medal thanks to Lola Mansur in judo mixed teams event: http://www.olympic.be/Spelen/Olympischejeugdspelen/NieuwsberichtenJOS/tabid/241/ctl/Details/mid/824/ItemID/697/language/nl-NL/Default.aspx
  17. Comite Olimpico Peruano (Peru OC) says Leslie Cano won the second medal (gold) for Peru at Singapore 2010, the 6th medal in olympic history of Peru: http://www.coperu.org/web/noticia.php?idnoticia=429&seccion=
  18. Andorran OC is poor of news about Singapore 2010; it shows results of Andorran athletes but it doesn't talk clearly about its own policy about the medal table: http://www.coa.ad/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=187:jocs-olimpics-de-la-joventut-singapur-2010-resultats&catid=109:i-jocs-jovenut-singapur-2010&Itemid=94
  19. Österreichisches Olympisches Comité (Austrian OC) says Austria won 6 medals, 2 golds and 4 bronze including the 2 medals from mixed team events: http://www.olympia.at/main.asp?VID=1&kat1=74&kat2=476&kat3=&Text=&GenLiPage=&NID=1054 (Österreich war mit 16 Sportlerinnen und Sportlern bei den ersten Olympischen Jugendspielen in Singapur vertreten. 10 Mädchen, 6 Burschen aus ganz Österreich starteten in 12 Sportarten. Mit 2 x Gold und 4 x Bronze kann man mehr als zufrieden sein, darunter auch 2 Mixed-Team-Medaillen.)
  20. Malta OC has not a news page about Youth Olimpic Games: http://www.nocmalta.org/page.asp?p=20632&l=1 but I read on a Malta newspaper an article where it was clearly described that Malta Junior Team closed the 1st youth olympic edition with 1 silver in its knapsack
  21. Indian Olympic Committee shows in this pdf document the 7 medals (4 silvers, 3 bronzes) won by India at YOG 2010: http://www.olympic.ind.in/images/MEDALWINNERS.pdf
  22. Costarican OC states that Costa Rica won an historical olympic medal with Andrea Guillén in judo mixed team event: http://concrc.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:confirmada-medalla-de-bronce-para-costa-rica&catid=60:yog-singapur-2010&Itemid=218
  23. Hrvatski Olimpijski Odbor (Croatian OC) says in this article that Croatia won 4 medals (1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronzes): http://www.hoo.hr/2323-v-svecano-zatvorene-prve-olimpijske-igre-mladih.aspx (Hrvatski sportaši osvojili su cetiri medalje na OIM u Singapuru: zlato je osvojio plivac Ivan Capan (50m prsno), srebro košarkaši (košarka 3 na 3) i dvije bronce judašica Barbara Matic (pojedinacno i ekipno)
  24. Hong Kong OC reports that Honk Kong won 2 silver medals at Singapore 2010, LAI Jasmine Zin Man (with other Australian and Asian players) and CHENG Chun Leung Michael: http://www.hkolympic.org/jsp/medallist/index_by_year.jsp#35
  25. Comité Olímpico Español (Spanish OC) has really poor reports about YOG, but I discovered an article where it talks of the gold medal won for the spanish team by Pedro Rivadulla in the mixed team judo event, verifiable here: http://www.coe.es/ (look at "noticias (news)" in the month of august (Singapur no deja de dar gratas sorpresas al conjunto español. Pedro Rivadulla gana la medalla de oro en Judo)
  26. Slovak Olympic Committee states Slovakia won 6 medals (1 gold); information reported here in the last paragraph: http://www.olympic.sk/aktuality-sov/12309-oh-mladee-singapur-sa-lui-s-mladymi-olympionikmi.html
  27. Papua New Guinea Sports Federation and OC website just says that John Rivan wins bronze medal with Team Oceania, but in this article it clears the policy of meritocracy (and not casual partecipation) beyond the constructions of the teams for the mixed team events saying that PNG's athlet earns a spot on Oceania Medley Relay Team: http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=2-3854-0-0-0&sID=40513&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=13068573&sectionID=40513
  28. Czech Olympic Committee informs that czech athlets won 7 medals at Singapore 2010, 2 golds thanks to David Pulkrábek in judo and Jiri Vesely in tennis; verifiable here: http://www.olympic.cz/cz/olympijske-hry/1787/olympijske-hry-mladeze-skoncily-vlajku-prevzala-cina
  29. In its english pages, Ukrainian Olympic Committee reports that Ukraine at Singapore 2010 was represented at that prestigious competition by 55 young Olympians who competed in 18 sports and have won 35 medals including 10 gold, 9 silver and 16 bronze. verifiable here: http://www.noc-ukr.org/en/news/2010/08/26/4373.html
  30. Libyan OC says Lybia won a bronze medal with Abdel Azim Khalifa Militan; verifiable here: http://www.olympic.ly/details.php?id=830
  31. Algeria OC websites is partially updated about Singapore 2010, but in the Algeria results page, the committee reports the bronze medal won by Zackaria Hamici in the equestrian midex teams event: http://www.comiteolympiquealgerien.com/JeuxResultats/joj%20singapour/B1.html
  32. Uzbekistan won 9 medals (3 silver, 6 bronze), says Uzbekista OC here: http://www.olympic.uz/uz/content.scm?contentId=31613
  33. Mongolia OC talks about the 3 medals (2 gold, 1 silver) won by its Junior Team at Сингапур 2010: http://www.olympic.mn/2010/08/26/%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%bd%d0%b3%d0%be%d0%bb%d1%87%d1%83%d1%83%d0%b4%d1%8b%d0%bd-%d0%b4%d0%b0%d1%80%d1%85%d0%b0%d0%bb%d1%81%d0%b0%d0%bd-%d1%85%d0%be%d1%91%d1%80-%d0%b0%d0%bb%d1%82%d1%8b%d0%b3-%d0%be-%d0%b4/

On the other hand:

  1. Germany OC seems to be the only one not talking about any kind of medal table.
  2. Finally Hungarian OC is the first to publish on its website the medal table resumed probably from the actual wikipedia one: http://www.olympic-hun.org/Engine.aspx
  3. Lithuanian OC also uses the wikipedia medal table on its website, but in the same article it smartly includes ONLY for the Lithuanian Team the medal won in the mixed team event of modern pentathlon by Lukas Kontrimavicius, claiming that Lithuania won 5 medals (not 4) occupying the 19th position in the medal table (Lietuva šioje valstybių rikiuotėje užėmė labai aukštą 19 vietą: 3 aukso ir 2 bronzos medaliai); verifiable here: http://www.ltok.lt/node/953 and here http://www.ltok.lt/node/952

In the end:

  • Egypt, Mauritius and Senegal OCs websites were shutdown and unavailable;
  • Honduras, Nigeria, DR of Congo, Turkmenistan and Cuba OCs have not an internet site, as reported from IOC official website;
  • Venezuela OC, the Bahams, Jamaica, and Singapore Olympic Councils sites are not updated in the last 1-2 years or do not report any information about Singapore 2010, and so do the Belarus, Bosnia Erzegovina, Tunisia and Oman OCs websites.
  • On Slovenian OC site I didn't found any news about Singapore 2010 and Zimbabwe OC's website reported its last news on august, 7.
  • For the Israelian OC I had serious problems to understand anything even with internet translations
  • Dominican Republic: I was not able to explore its OC's website
  • Korea, China and Japan: in the english pages of their OCs websites there were no news about Singapore 2010; the asian pages were pratically unreadeble —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.53.69.59 (talk) 11:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Section

[edit]
Cleaned up your post. A lot of your claims can be interpreted differently. For example, "Czech Olympic Committee informs that czech athlets won 7 medals at Singapore 2010". That's correct, Czech athletes won 7 medals; not necessarily the Czech team. Furthermore, just how can you claim that the sites against your view, namely you cite the Hungarian and Lithuanian committees, took their printed medal tables from Wikipedia? You have no proof of that. Addendum 12:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC) - it does appear that Hungary's OC took their medal table from Wikipedia, given they've chosen not to reword "Mixed-NOCs" nor remove the hidden "4" in the sort column. As far as I'm concerned, and Wikipedia consensus is concerned, there is no basis for this inclusion. You might have a view on this but the overwhelming agreement is just not with your side, and you have to learn to accept that fact that that's how Wikipedia works. See also Talk:2010 Summer Youth Olympics#Medal table. Strange Passerby (talk) 12:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, note that you claim Canada treats the mixed-fencing bronze as their own. However, this is clearly not true - your link shows Canada claims only 12 medals, which is what they won on their own. With the mixed fencing, they won 13. Strange Passerby (talk) 12:35, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, great! Thank you for cleaning Strange Passerby! :-) Anyway, about Canadian OC, it was my fault, the last new reported by the NOC was this: http://www.olympic.ca/en/news/youth-olympic-games-come-close/. You are right, 13 medals for Canadian team, as stated in the article: (The Olympic flame, which had lit up Singapore’s scenic Marina Bay area from atop a light house, was extinguished and the Canadian Youth Olympic Team will return to Canada with 13 medals and a lifetime of memories.). For the Hungarian and Lithuanian OCs I said they took medal tables from wikipedia because wikipedia is the only source where to find the medal table classified in that way, which is not against my view but against the view of all the NOCs worldwide. Last thing: I verified the eventuality of different interpretations reading once again all the news, and no risks of misunderstandings. I controlled also the Czech OC news and in the article that I reported is clearly written (Česká výprava čítající 38 sportovců si domů odváží sedm medailí.) literally: The 38 athletes Czech team gained 7 medals.
The thing is, there are plenty of secondary and tertiary sources - news articles, especially - out there which would back up Wikipedia about not counting mixed medals. I'd argue that individual NOC websites count as primary sources only interested in boosting their own numbers. Therefore a compromise I'd suggest would be to include a short line, along the lines of "Although each National Olympic Committee treats mixed-NOCs medals differently, with a number of NOCs both counting and not counting these medals as their own, the medal table presented here treats all mixed-NOCs medals as an individual listing." (Wording subject to copyediting, of course.) As long as we're agreed we cannot add the medals directly to each nation. There were 201 events; with one gold shared there were 202 golds and 200 silvers awarded. This total cannot change in the medal table. Strange Passerby (talk) 02:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, Strange Passerby. You remember that edit by the anon that you mentioned at the beginning of (what is now) this section. That line that was added is exactly the same thing as what you are suggesting right now. When I disagreed with you removing that line, it was justified. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 03:35, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No. You're stretching it. Don't try to paint me in the wrong here when clearly what you say wasn't the case. The original line added said "the single NOCs do not recognize Mixed-NOCs classification and consider the medals won through mixed teams events in their own medal counts". This suggests all NOCs (and a subsequent edit even said the NOCs and IOC "agree" that these medals are won by their nations, when the IOC doesn't even recognise a medal table!) consider the mixed medals as their own, and do not recognised mixed events at all. As we've seen, this is not true. This is different from saying different NOCs treat the issue differently. How is this "exactly the same thing"? The lines that were added, and subsequently reverted, questioned our inclusion of the listing. This is, as it stands, non-negotiable unless new consensus is reached. Strange Passerby (talk) 03:53, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, already. I'm not trying to pin this on you. crybaby It is possible that I may have overlooked the tone and intentions of the original claims, but from my point of view, I perceived them as saying that some of the NOCs don't recognize Mixed-NOC classification; it didn't look as if the guys who put those lines there intended to portray that ALL the NOCs don't recognize Mixed-NOCs. I'm American and you're British (I think), so maybe our language interpretations are a little different. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 04:48, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please note WP:NPA. We may disagree on this but there's no need for personal attacks. Strange Passerby (talk) 04:54, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean, personal attacks? Nobody said anything about personal attacks. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think to add some lines to explain the view of the NOCs would be a very good thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.53.22.150 (talk) 19:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the anon here, absolutely. (He's located in Segrate, Italy, by the way.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexshkhtmn (talk • contribs) 20:25, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think "Although each National Olympic Committee treats mixed-NOCs medals differently, with a number of NOCs both counting and not counting these medals as their own, the medal table presented here treats all mixed-NOCs medals as an individual listing." would be enough to "explain the view of the NOCs". Makes mention that some NOCs do consider the mixed medals their own while balancing it out with the NOCs that don't. That's the best I could go with in the medal table section. Anything more than that is irrelevant in that section and should go in its own section, either under controversy or some other section. Strange Passerby (talk) 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alrighty, then. So where do we put it? Alexshkhtmn (talk) 15:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say there needs to be some sort of wider consensus first, three people consensus doesn't make. Strange Passerby (talk) 15:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, how do we get a consensus? Alexshkhtmn (talk) 18:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Mmm I'm saying this with no anger or irony, but it sounds still quite strange to me that reality should be put on vote before being posted on wikipedia, a sort of Orwell's Big Brother... so if I took a bunch of friends on here for voting a proposal to say that YOG Singapore 2010 never existed, and if we won, wikipedia would say that "Singapore 2010 was only a government conspiracy"? :-) Ok,I joke... anyway if that's how it works here I am ready to follow your rules :-). P.s.: Alexshkhtmn, I'm Swiss from Locarno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.53.69.123 (talk) 02:58, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, really? I did an IP trace on your address, and it showed that you're located in Italy. Alexshkhtmn (talk) 03:30, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree to change the medal table, counting medals from mixed teams events inside the nations' counts. Greetings from Gallipoli (Italy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.189.140.20 (talk) 16:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Two wrestlers test positive at Youth Olympics

[edit]

YOG 2010: Two wrestlers test positive at Youth Olympics, confirm IOC. And IOC catches 2 wrestlers doping at Youth Olympics This is latest news, published 15 October 2010. The news articles only state both wrestlers have been disqualified (one won a silver medal), so I'm not sure about medal changes. AFP writes "Hakkulov's silver medal could be awarded to third-placed Shadybek Sulaimanov of Kyrgyzstan, while Cuba's Johan Rodriguez Banguela could move up from fourth to the bronze-medal position." But there's no confirmation, so we'll wait it out. ANGCHENRUI WP:MSE♨ 01:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands, he's been disqualified so a silver should be taken away from Uzbekistan. It's possible the IOC doesn't promote anyone else, as there wasn't an official medal table. Not to mention the IOC left the men's road race in Beijing unchanged after a doping DQ (gold, bronze, no silver) until earlier this year. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 03:05, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed Hakkulov's silver medal from the Uzbek count and made a note in the article. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 04:52, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Official instance of the IOC about medals won by athletes in Mixed-NOCs

[edit]

I am sorry to bring this discussion up again if this represents an inconvenience. I have read through this page and no one talked about the official instance of the International Olympic Comitee on the medals won by athletes representing Mixed-NOCs. When we search on the IOC website for medallists at the Olympic Games, the search results in medals won by Mixed-NOCs as being associated to athletes from different countries. Since there is no official medal table available at their website, I believe they do accept a medal won in a mixed-NOCs competition as a medal won by those countries. Take a look at this example:

http://www.olympic.org/medallists-results?athletename=&category=&games=&sport=&event=&mengender=false&womengender=false&mixedgender=false&teamclassification=false&individualclassification=false&continent=5&country=31181&goldmedal=false&silvermedal=false&bronzemedal=false&worldrecord=false&olympicrecord=false&targetresults=true

This clearly shows that according to the IOC, an athlete from Fiji has won an Olympic medal. The issue that arises is: could we really say that an athlete from Fiji has won a medal, but Fiji has no Olympic medals? In other words: according to the official source, an athlete from Fiji has an Olympic medal, but according to wikipedia the country does not have an Olympic medal. How can it be "off the records" if the IOC website clearly lists it? I know that there is a consensus on wikipedia right now, but we should not ignore the way the IOC handles the situation. ThiagoSimoes (talk) 17:40, 10 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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