Talk:2007 Formula One World Championship/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about 2007 Formula One World Championship. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Hakkinen

Is Hakkinen's testing deal with McLaren something that is going to last through the season, or is he just doing one or a small handful of tests during the off season? If he's only doing one or two tests in the off season, does he really need to be listed as a test driver for the team in the 2007 season? The359 18:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

From what I remember reading, I think he is only going to do some tests now, pre-season, not during the season. If that's true, I don't think he should be in the table, but it sure deserves mentioning in the article. After all, Hakkinen is a former World Champion who hasn't driven an F1 car for a few years...--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 19:28, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Toro Rosso

According to the FIA Entry List for 2007, Toro Rosso's drivers are not confirmed yet. Should Liuzzi and Speed be in the list here? PS:Sorry for my English.--Fryant 19:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

You're quite right. I've now removed them from the line-up. To other editors: Only re-insert when they've been officially confirmed, not before. Manipe 00:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Pre-season testing

Does anyone have a view on whether pre-season testing belongs in this article? Personally, I think one would not expect specific reports of any test session to be included, so I think this is a level of detail that one would not expect to see in a season article. It is news certainly, but probably not encyclopaedic, although it could perhaps have an article of its own (if it must). Also, this does not necessarily relate to 2007 either since many teams were only running interim cars and engines and therefore this is perhaps post-2006 season testing anyway. (Edit: I notice a 2007 testing article has been created since the above comment) Jsydave 22:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

To be quite honest, I don't think testing should be in this article, or on the wiki at all. Realistically, testing is what it says it is - testing. It's totally uncompetitive, and although might occasionally hint at a performance advantage for some teams, any experienced Formula One fan will know that times are totally usless without any knowledge on the teams' respective programmes that particular day. Also, while testing is almost fundamental to today's F1, it's not quite important enough to clog Wikipedia up with. We all know that testing counts for nothing, and including it will therefore be simply a waste of time of any editors who could be pouring their efforts into improving other articles. The 2007 F1 article is clogged enough without adding more useless info into it. As regards having another article with solely testing, well how many people would avail of its services? Casual fans wouldn't be interested, and fans deep enough into the sport to be looking for testing results would already know of many websites who cover testing in-depth. Manipe 20:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Manipe that testing is a tad irrelevant to Wikipedia. Only if something major occurs, or a date when a driver first tested for a new team, that stuff can be important, but that's about it. The359 21:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

So, are we deleting 2007 Formula One season Testing or what? The359 01:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

This has been nominated for deletion so if you have not done so already please express your thoughts on the relevant pages --Jsydave 16:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

European GP

On formula1.com the 22 July Nurburgring date is listed as the European GP, not the German GP (see here). This conflicts with the date listed as the German GP on the FIA release (see here). The Nurburgring website just lists it as "Formula 1." Any insight? Aldango 20:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It's the German Grand Prix. The only reason the race at Nurburg was ever called the European Grand Prix was because, under current regulations, two races may not exist under the same country name. That's why the race at Imola was called the San Marino Grand Prix, despite it not actually being in San Marino. Manipe 23:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know that. I understand *why* it should be listed as the German GP due to the logic. The problem is, Wikipedia and the official Formula One website differ in information. Aldango 20:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It is the German Grand Prix - European is not longer valid. See the Formula One website [1]. This has also been comfirmed by the FIA: [2] (pdf format). --TheTall One 17:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess they'll fix it at some time or another. Aldango 20:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like this ended up being the European GP due to naming and licensing issues! Aldango 23:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Team/Driver list

Shouldn't the links in the 'constructor' column link to Renault F1 instead of Renault and Scuderia Ferrari instead of Ferrari, or at least a piped link? --TheTall One 17:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, then we have to make a distinction between Renault (the F1 team & designer of F1 cars) and Renault (the mass-production car corporation). Which is the "constructor" per se? Or should they be considered the same thing (as they are now)? Aldango 03:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixed to go to the teams, not their parent corporations. That's the more useful link. 4u1e 00:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the engine supplier should be the proper car manufacturer.MotorSportMCMXC 16:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Tyre Supplier

Is this column of the table even remotely relevant anymore, as Bridgestone supplies all of the teams? Surely we only need a mention in the opening section of the article about the change, rather than this redundancy. mpbx 10:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, look back to all previous seasons where there was only one supplier, the tyre suppliers are still there. It is relevent for historical purposes. (Davesmith33 17:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association

It should be mentioned that Renault recently left the GPMA. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns18043.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Z Vengeance (talk • contribs) 02:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Champion

What du you think who will be the champion? --217.224.125.203 16:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

That's not really a topic deserving of being here... The359 17:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Minardi. LOL. --Howard the Duck 11:12, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Tyres

Will it be shown on TV broadcasts considering there'll only be 1 manufacturer? If they don't show then should we omit it on the tables? --Howard the Duck 11:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It never has been in the past when there has only been one manufacturer, but on the other hand I believe it should stay on Wikipedia just because all the other years where there has only been one supplier it shows who is the sole supplier. It's more for people looking back on the article in years to come. Davesmith33 17:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

We can indicate that there's only 1 manufacturer for this year, preferably before the table or using the table caption parameter. --Howard the Duck 11:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, in fact I think we've already had this discussion and the consensus was for it to remain, for the reason I mentioned above, i.e. it's a common part of each table for all years previous so in order to keep a standard format there's no obvious reason for it to be removed. Davesmith33 12:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

But it'll be redundant, IMHO. I'm waiting for the TV coverage, if it shows the tyres along with the name, lap time and flag, then I think it'll remain; if it doesn't, I'll make a case on how it should be represented:

All drivers used B Bridgestone tyres.
Entrant	Constructor	Chassis	Engine	No	Drivers	Third driver	Test driver(s)
Mild Seven Renault F1 Team	Renault	R26	Renault RS26 2.4 V8	1	Fernando Alonso	n/a	Heikki Kovalainen José María López Nelson Piquet Jr
Mild Seven Renault F1 Team	Renault	R26	Renault RS26 2.4 V8	2	Giancarlo Fisichella	n/a	Heikki Kovalainen José María López Nelson Piquet Jr
Team McLaren Mercedes	McLaren	MP4-21	Mercedes FO 108S 2.4 V8	3	Kimi Räikkönen	n/a	Pedro de la Rosa Gary Paffett Lewis Hamilton

--Howard the Duck 06:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but that looks ridiculous. It would require changing every season page going back to the start of the world championship, where there was only one tyre manufacturer in order for there to a uniform look. If you do it on the 2007 season, you'll have to do it on all the others. Davesmith33 11:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

You can't be consistent with all seasons since some parameters would be redundant and/or different-you might as well add a "PSO" row at the FA Cup Finals; also this might prevent the appearance of the dreaded error page. ----Howard the Duck 16:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I suggest it's thrown to the F1 portal for further discussion, seeing as it's something that effects not just the 2007 season, but every year. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One#Tyre_icons_when_there_is_only_one_manufacturer Davesmith33 17:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Spyker

where does it say about the spyker drivers swapping with Sutil in the 20 car and Albers in the 21 car.MotorSportMCMXC 21:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

http://www.formula1.com/race/result/770/23.html Formula1.com has Sutil as #20, Albers as #21. I have no clue why Spyker have it flipped around. The359 01:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

More proof. Albers helmet with #21 on the nose. The359 01:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Roll Bars

The article used to say that the first car was going to run yellow and the second a red one. This just got changed. Theres no source cited for this, does anyone know which one it is? SlakaJ 21:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Red for car #1, yellow for car #2. Aldango 14:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Driver refs

Perhaps this is just me being picky (again) but for the table with the team's full name, chassis, drivers, test drivers, etc. Should we really have the reference for the driver next to their name? I can understand them being there during pre-season, to prove that they are going to be there, but do we really need them now seeing as all the seats have been confirmed? Can't we just uysed a single source to decrease the article size? (in terms of size in bytes)--Phill ^{talk Edits} 10:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should leave them. It wont do any harm and wont the old versions be kept anyway. I actually read these articles prior to watching F1 and I didn't know who the drivers were. SlakaJ 18:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think Phill's right - surely there's a single source (www.formula1.com or www.fia.com) that could be used? 4u1e 07:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

And I'll agree to that too. The official website should be given one footnote. This page is huge already without retaining needless refs. Pyrope 09:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Belgium: La Source changed?

As far as I know, the La Source hairpin hasn't actually been modified, only the bus-stop chicane. if anyone can find a source stating that the actual hairpin has been modified, it would be greatly appreciated. Manipe 19:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It's already sourced from ITV-F1. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38756 Davesmith33 11:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

But that source only says that the bus stop chicane has been modified, not that La Source has changed. 4u1e 07:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Article changed to match the source used. Cheers. 4u1e 07:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Winning Constructor

"Winning Constructor" does not refer to the constructor who walks away from the race with the most points. It refers to the team the winner of the race drove for. Precedent for this can be seen on the [Formula One Season] page, specifically the China race. Renault left with 14 points. Ferrari finished with just 10. However, Ferrari is still listed as the winning constructor because a Ferrari won the race, not a Renault. The same applies here. E946 05:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Retcon

Since the season has already started, I think some major re-working should be done to this page, particular the rumours and speculation sections. I also propose that a season summary, perhaps referred to as an on-going summary, should be featured after the pre-season testing section, which itself needs extra information added for the 2007 pre-season testing. Ian X490 01:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

DHL Fastest Lap Trophy

I just came across this in the official F1 website. It says its a new award for 2007 and the award will go to the driver who sets the most fastest laps over the course of the season. There is also a website about it DHL-Fastest-lap.com. Is this something worth mentioning in the article? Chris Ssk 18:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Constructor Statistics

In the table the field Starts should be 6 instead of 3, because each team has 2 cars and that means 6 starts, 2 for each race? Can I change it? 15.235.153.101

No. If a constructor starts a car, it's 1 start, no matter how many cars they run It is theoretically possible to run 1 car. The359 21:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

excellent updates

Whoever has been updating this page, Thank You!

Driver chart photos?

I really have to question if the photos of the cars is really necessary on the drivers chart. The chart is already cramped as it is, and will become even more cramped when we have driver changes for various reasons as the season progresses. If people want pictures of the cars they could easily get them from the individual car's page. The359 19:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'd be happy to see them go. DH85868993 02:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Points

Hi, how many points for 1st, for 2nd, for 3rd etc etc. It is not in the article. - Culnacréann 16:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The immediate answer to your question is 10 points for 1st, 8 for 2nd, 6 for 3rd, 5 for 4th and so on down to 1 point for 8th place. But you raise a good point (no pun intended) about it not being included in the article. I'll raise the issue on the WikiProject Formula One discussion page. Thanks. DH85868993 03:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Bruno Senna- STR rumours.

Rather similar to the Bourdais stuff, but there was a rumour regarding Bruno Senna being given a run-out in an STR.. See AutoSport May 17, page 13. This went along with the rumour that Toro Rosso was for sale. Maybe this is a bit trivial and unimportant though.. (I'm not going to add it, cos I don't know if it should be added.. Opinions please) ALCUS36 20:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC) 20:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Race Winnings

I am kind of new to Formula 1, but do drivers get race winnings like in NASCAR or IndyCar? or are they just paid their salary after each race and that's it? I don't see this in any of your Formula 1 articles and as a new fan was just wondering.-Melo1522

I've no idea but it's a great point. I think teams get prize money according to race position and/or final championship points. Either drivers too got such prize money allocation or it's up to their contracts to stipulate if the teams get bonuses if they win etc. There should be section in Formula One detailing such things. Mark83 21:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe the constructors are paid, and then the constructors pay the drivers as they see fit. For example, I've heard tell that although McLaren only pays its drivers a base salary of $100,000 a year, they also earn $100,000 for each championship point. I have only heard this, though. --Golbez 21:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the problem here is the Concorde Agreement (which at least specifies how F1 commercial revenues are split and possibly how points prizes are awarded) is secret. And it's no suprise that however secret or not the Concorde Agreement is, the team/driver contracts are even more hidden from the public eye. Sure salaries are widely known either by admission or intelligent estimate be people/media organisations in the know, but the minutatie of 'pay by point' or whatever else are only known by the driver, the senior people in the team and their lawyers -- Not much interest among those parties in leaking such details. Mark83 21:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's interesting! I guess if it's so secret then it probably doesn't need to be added to any of the articles. I have one last question about race winnings, and then we can probably close this discussion. does the FIA post race winnings for the public to view? Or is that also something the FIA keeps secret?-Melo1522

New Table

I like the new table of qualifing what do you all think.-MotorSportMCMXC

Apart from the fact that it's wrong; hardly any of the Car No's match up to the name of the driver. chem_tom 20:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, fixed the table. I also want to include two tables that show the average positions of drivers in qualifying and races. The qualifying table (based on average position, not average time) should be pretty interesting. I'm not sure about the average race position though. I'm expecting it to be slightly different than the standings, but then DNFs and DQs might make it totally meaningless.--Ademkader 02:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother with average race position; as you have identified, DNFs and DQs make it meaningless. If you want to include average qualifying position, I'd recommend just adding another column to the existing table, rather than adding another table. DH85868993 03:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Does this table really add anything to the article? I mean qualifying position doesn't really effect points and the only position everyone cares about is pole, which is already established through the calender table and the enbolded position in the results table. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 10:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Bourdais

Why exactly is Bourdais listed as a test driver for STR? He has tried for the team, but he's hardly done an actual testing work, nor is he actually employed by STR. I think he should be removed. The359 23:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree and unless someone can find a reference with the words "Bourdais is STR's test driver" in it. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 10:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Tyre option

Since Bridgestone only produce two types of tyres during each GP weekend, i think it is possible to add the tyre option as here. But I'm quite doubt is that necessary, by among editors, and where should it put. Please give some comment. Thanks! --Aleen f1 14:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Nigel Stepney

Not even a mention of the spy row? --Howard the Duck 11:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

A "main" link to 2007 Formula One espionage controversy with a short summary would do. Mark83 11:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Where would I put it? Between what sections? --Howard the Duck 16:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Car images

Car colors should be quoted or box colored with appropriate background color. Car color is specific to season like renault had different color in 2006 than 2007. Preferably in section ~~Constructors or Constructors statistics.~~ "teams and drivers". 202.41.72.100 09:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

If someone wants to know the colors of the car, they can easily click on the individual article on this season's cars. Every article has a picture of their respective car. The359 09:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

How'bout inserting images in table of section teams and drivers, with rowspan 2? can i go ahead? (Tyres column is redundant after season 2006. ) 202.41.72.100 10:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this is necessary. Anyway what colour would you say the Renault was for example? It's "painted" like a rainbow this year! Mark83 11:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Plus, I don't like that picture idea. We've already had that idea and the table looked ugly and also took more room than it really should have. Not only that, but some of the images used were FU images -- although I do believe we have Free images for all the cars now, I don't think it's still appropriate because, as 359 has stated, the car's colour is merely a click away. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 11:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks not so good, but informative for people who watch on TV 202.41.72.100 12:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC) new, improved! seeking yes votes 202.41.72.100 06:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Entrant	Constructor	Chassis	Engine¹	Car	No	Driver	No	Test driver(s)²
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes	McLaren	MP4-22	Mercedes FO 108T		1	Fernando Alonso	31	Pedro de la Rosa Gary Paffett
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes	McLaren	MP4-22	Mercedes FO 108T		2	Lewis Hamilton	31	Pedro de la Rosa Gary Paffett
ING Renault F1 Team	Renault	R27	Renault RS27		3	Giancarlo Fisichella	32	Ricardo Zonta Nelson Piquet Jr.
ING Renault F1 Team	Renault	R27	Renault RS27		4	Heikki Kovalainen	32	Ricardo Zonta Nelson Piquet Jr.
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro	Ferrari	F2007	Ferrari 056		5	Felipe Massa	33	Luca Badoer Marc Gené^[1]
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro	Ferrari	F2007	Ferrari 056		6	Kimi Räikkönen	33	Luca Badoer Marc Gené^[1]
Honda Racing F1 Team	Honda	RA107	Honda RA807E		7	Jenson Button	34	Christian Klien James Rossiter Mike Conway^[2]
Honda Racing F1 Team	Honda	RA107	Honda RA807E		8	Rubens Barrichello	34	Christian Klien James Rossiter Mike Conway^[2]
BMW Sauber F1 Team	BMW Sauber	F1.07	BMW P86/7	File:Heidfeld Bahrain.jpg	9	Nick Heidfeld	35	Sebastian Vettel Timo Glock
					10	Robert Kubica
					10	Sebastian Vettel^[3]
Panasonic Toyota Racing	Toyota	TF107	Toyota RVX-07	B	11	Ralf Schumacher	36	Franck Montagny Kohei Hirate^[4] Kamui Kobayashi^[4]
Panasonic Toyota Racing	Toyota	TF107	Toyota RVX-07	B	12	Jarno Trulli	36	Franck Montagny Kohei Hirate^[4] Kamui Kobayashi^[4]
Red Bull Racing	Red Bull	RB3	Renault RS27	B	14	David Coulthard	37	Robert Doornbos Michael Ammermüller
Red Bull Racing	Red Bull	RB3	Renault RS27	B	15	Mark Webber	37	Robert Doornbos Michael Ammermüller
AT&T Williams	Williams	FW29	Toyota RVX-07	B	16	Nico Rosberg	38	Narain Karthikeyan Kazuki Nakajima
AT&T Williams	Williams	FW29	Toyota RVX-07	B	17	Alexander Wurz	38	Narain Karthikeyan Kazuki Nakajima
Scuderia Toro Rosso	Toro Rosso	STR2	Ferrari 056	B	18	Vitantonio Liuzzi	39	Sebastian Bourdais
Scuderia Toro Rosso	Toro Rosso	STR2	Ferrari 056	B	19	Scott Speed	39	Sebastian Bourdais
Etihad Aldar Spyker F1 Team	Spyker	F8-VII	Ferrari 056	B	20	Adrian Sutil	40	Mohamed Fairuz Fauzy Adrián Vallés Markus Winkelhock Giedo van der Garde Christian Klien
					21	Christijan Albers
					21	TBA
Super Aguri F1	Super Aguri	SA07	Honda RA807E	B	22	Takuma Sato	41	Sakon Yamamoto James Rossiter ^[5]
Super Aguri F1	Super Aguri	SA07	Honda RA807E	B	23	Anthony Davidson	41	Sakon Yamamoto James Rossiter ^[5]

No, the pictures are way too small for people to use - I wouldn't be able to tell you that's a Renault if it weren't for the "Renault F1" team name in the cell next to it. Not only that, but those pictures are too small and you can see they're been compressed too much for them to look tidy. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 13:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Add my name to the list of "No" votes. DH85868993 13:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

^ "Gene stays at Ferrari - but to do what?". grandprix.com. 2006-11-10. Retrieved 2006-11-10.
^ "Honda signs Conway". grandprix.com. 2007-03-08. Retrieved 2007-03-08.
^ "Vettel in for Kubica". grandprix.com. 2007-06-14. Retrieved 2007-06-14.
^ ^a ^b "Toyota push Japanese talent". GrandPrix.com. 2006-11-10. Retrieved 2006-11-10. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
^ "Rossiter joins Super Aguri as tester". Manipe F1. 2007-05-14. Retrieved 2007-05-14. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

My edits

In my edit summaries I've put HUN GP, I meant TUR GP. Sorry for any confusion! chem_tom 15:04, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Honda running the RA106 again?

SpeedTV's commentators made mention today that Honda has apparently decided to abandon the Honda RA107 for the rest of the season, and that during this weekend's British Grand Prix they're now running "last year's car". Considering how arbitrarily the definition of what each car is, should the Honda RA106 be added to the chart? I can certainly confirm that the car is at least running some of the RA107's aerodynamics, but I'd like to hear what others think of it all.

(Also, this happens to put another twist in the debate of whether or not Aguri is using an illegal car, especially if Aguri and Honda are now using the same car...) The359 18:08, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

We'll need a better source than Speed's commentators I think; considering the amount of press that follows F1 around, if this is indeed true there should be no trouble in finding a print/web source. And if it is true, mention both cars, yeah. As for Honda, I think Speed put it perfectly: "Ten million dollars of research and they managed to make a car three seconds slower than last year's." "It would have been cheaper to just load 20 pounds of weight onto last year's car. They should bring it back." "They can't, they gave it to the Aguri boys." I loved Super Best Friends before this year, and Taku's pass of Alonso in Canada was the moment of the season. I hope nothing bad happens to them. :| --Golbez 00:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Speed were talking bullshit, anyone with half a knowledge of F1 could spot that. Also, can we please leave crass nicknames like "Super Best Friends" off an encyclopedia? Duds 2k 22:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Mclaren points being droped

Pattav2 12:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)If you check on formula1.com it will say the news from the courts in Paris that Mclaren's points have gone to 0 due to the team having Ferrai documents. If someone could change please because I don't know how to edit tables. thankyou

Where are the flags?!

What is happening?! I saw this on different pages but I can't explain the problem... Daniel7 01:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be some sort of technical glitch. Currently being discussed at the Help Desk. DH85868993 02:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Black boxing is not consistent

the legend for DSQ has a black background while for EX it has not ;( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.185.91.221 (talk) 10:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Black should be used for both DSQ and EX, and change the legend. Daniel7 15:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel77o (talk • contribs)

Your SineBot is working wrong! I have signed my comments using an option from my preferences. So it is a valid signature! Because of your bot, I can't update my comments, as it is resulting an edit conflict. I have to copy-paste my comment and try again. --Daniel7 16:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel77o (talk • contribs)

It is translation error for that option in the en.wikipedia.org interface for my country's language. --daniel7 15:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest addressing this at Wikipedia Talk: WikiProject Formula One before you continue, as changing the legend would necessitate a change in every F1 result table with an "EX" on Wikipedia. Majin Izlude ^talk 02:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

McLaren score points or not?

I believe that since McLaren ran the Hungarian GP under appeal, they actually score points as constructors. Only when they meet with the FIA Court will that appeal be decided and those points possibly taken away. I think the points chart should reflect this until the Court meets. The359 18:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

They haven't actually appealed - they've announced their intention to appeal. ITV suggests they may even decide not to appeal.[3] Mark83 21:09, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

NO, they are not given trophy so they did not win constructors, so that field should be kept blank. Tikitiki-tikito 08:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

But - according to Planet-f1.com, they have now appealled against the FIA decision, so I guess it is watch this space! Regards, Lynbarn 08:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

According to the BBC they have dropped there appeal http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7000683.stm KevS 18:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

McLaren withdrew their Hungary appeal. This has nothing to do with their espionage appeal. The359 19:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Points removal

Does the points deduction apply for all the Grand-Prix, or just the ones already raced? - In other words, do Constructors points in Belgium onwards get counted?

StuartDD ( t • c ) 19:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

They won't score any points this season. mattbuck 19:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Do all the other teams from the previous races now move up one in the standings, or is it simply, they keep the points they had, and if McLaren comes in first in any future races this season, simply no team gets 10 constructors points? --Golbez 22:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

All previous results remain the same, and teams will not score additional points in future events if McLaren finish in front of them. Think of it this way - McLaren are still scoring points, just those points are then removed at the end of the season. If we then apply the precedent set in the 1997 season when Schumacher was excluded, then everyone else stays on the same points. Now here's a thought... if Mclaren are excluded, does this mean they need to give back a load of constructors' trophies? For that matter, who got the trophy in Hungary? mattbuck 01:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The FIA's press release stipulated that McLaren will not receive constructor's trophies at any of the four remaining races. The same thing occured at Hungary, no trophy was awarded. However, I'm sure McLaren will not be forced to hand back the constructor's trophies, although I am not sure. They will be forced to forfeit all of their TV Revenue from so far this season though, which will go towards paying their $100mil fine. The359 03:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

McLaren points situation

The constructors points should remain in the article for two reasons:

McLaren may appeal the ruling (though it seems unlikely they will get anywhere).
They will get a rebate on their $100m fine that is calculated by the winnings they would have received, based on the points they should have been scoring (this may reduce their fine by as much as 50%).

Perhaps the best solution would be to put McLaren at the bottom of the constructors statistics table, but still with their points tally intact? -- Scjessey 17:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

As per precedent set with Michael Schumacher on 1997 Formula One season, they should stay in whatever position in the table they would have been, with points total intact, but with their position blacked out. This is how the article is presented atm. mattbuck 19:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Schumacher was not stripped of his points, though... Majin Izlude ^talk 00:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The FOM graphics are showing them as having 0 points as is formula1.com. How about putting the points in the table to 0 but keep track of the points they would have scored in the notes? Madraykin86 10:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

He was excluded though. Are there any other precedents we can draw on? mattbuck 10:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

On the 1984 page Tyrell are listed as having no points (I don't know if they had any to begin with though). Also the FIA statement does say that McLaren have been stripped of their points, not just excluded. Madraykin86 11:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

(They did, as it happens) 4u1e 17:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Schumacher was allowed to keep his victories, trophies, AND the points for his career total. However, he was disqualified from second in the championship. McLaren loses all its points and TV revenue, and will not be allowed to even stand on the podium in the final four races, let alone earn any trophies, money or points. McLaren is excluded from the championship, meaning they have NO point total. I don't mean just zero, I mean they are incapable of even having a point total because McLaren is literally not taking part in the championship now. Hence, they are excluded, not disqualified. The359 18:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Max Mosley has stated that McLaren is considered to be 11th place. [4] Big Merl 21:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The current version of the table seems OK to me. The points have to be mentioned for each race because they must be comparable with other teams in the table. At most we can put a note like † but different from those used for disqualification at Hungarian GP. I propose using the same double cross sign ‡ for marking the same event. And we must change the legend colour for EX (Black). PS: Even that we put 11th place instead of EX, McLaren can't change that place, because they can't get any points. So i think it's better as it is. --Daniel7 16:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC) --daniel7 15:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know if the money deducted from their fine that they'd have got from TV revenues and stuff is from their points total pre-exclusion, or what it would be if they scored points to the end of the season? mattbuck 20:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

(answering above question here to stop the indentation madness) The text of the WMSC Judgment (section 9.2) calls for "a fine of USD100 million (less any sum that would have been payable by Formula One Management Limited on account of McLaren’s results in the 2007 Constructors Championship had it not been excluded). This fine shall be payable within three months from the date of this Decision." It seems that it includes the points that would have been scored in the last four races as well, though that is not explicitly stated. Majin Izlude ^talk 08:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

McPoints - there's a clear precedent set

Ten years ago Michael Schumacher was excluded from the championship due to his wreck on JV. In that article, he got put in the position where he would have finished the championship, with points total in tact, and position listed as DSQ rather than 2nd. Surely that should be the case for McLaren this year? Duke toaster 20:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Nope. The punishment 10 years ago is not the same as the one this year. McLaren is excluded from the constructors championship, they do not take part in the championship (no constructors trophies, no money for their constructors championship position) therefore it is impossible for them to be listed. They are literally, retroactively, not participating in the constructors' championship. Michael Schumacher was allowed to keep his points (McLaren is not) and allowed to keep his trophies (McLaren will not be allowed to gain anymore trophies this season). The359 20:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Ferrari title

in the opening paragraphs the article currently states "ferrari clinched the championship at the Belgian Grand Prix" - i suggest this puts a little bias in the view that ferrari actually WON the championship at spa. perhaps something like "ferrari were GIVEN the constructors title..." or "ferrari were DECLARED constructor champions at ..."

if nobody objects i will change it Stuckster 13:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying they didn't? I don't see any constructor in the running for the championship that could have possibly beat them. They clinched the championship, that's not remotely biased. They don't actually WIN it until after Brazil. --Golbez 17:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

"clinched" gives the impression to a reader with no knowledge of the current scenario (mclaren ejection from constructors champ) that after a close run contest ferrari "just" won the championship. I'm just saying different wording should be used, perhaps suggesting that because of mclaren ejection (mentioned in the previous sentence of the article), no other teams were in the position to compete. without speculating, i feel that in the future, ferraris constructors championship win will only be seen as a technicality, and that the opening of the article should imply this. (And i agree with your point golbez about not winning until after brazil!) Stuckster 15:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

At the time McLaren were excluded from the championship (just before Spa), Ferrari were not assured of the title. BMW Sauber would still have been able to beat them in the unlikely event that BMW Sauber came 1st and 2nd and Ferrari failed to score points in all the remaining races. Ferrari became mathematically assured of the title by scoring enough points at Spa to be unable to be caught by BMW Sauber. - MTC 16:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is Hamilton listed ahead of Alonso?

They have an equal number of points, wins and podium finishes, so why is Hamilton listed higher? Kie 14:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Because they finished on the same number of points, it goes down onto a tie-breaker of highest finishes. As they both had 4 wins, it went onto second places, and as Hamilton has 5 and Alonso 4, he is listed above Alonso. Eddie6705 16:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

You'll hear it described as "countback" in the media. Mark83 21:47, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is too long

Does anyone else think that this article is too long? Some things just don't seem necessary, such as the driver and constructor statistics. Also, do we really need to include things like "On September 6, 2006, Renault confirmed Heikki Kovalainen as the team's replacement for Fernando Alonso"? I just think that sentences such as that are unnecessary because you can just deduce that fact from looking at the table. Sausageman 03:24, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, I for one appreciate the nicely encyclopedic verbosity (Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, remember?). Some redundancy between tables and texts can't be avoided anyway. 91.33.201.39 21:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

What?! The "nicely encyclopedic verbosity"? I never thought I'd see the day when that could be appreciated by anyone.. Moriori 23:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The driver and constructor stats are the whole point of the article. As for length... it'll probably be edited down after the season is over. mattbuck 22:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the original post. The details are there in the table. If a reader wants to know why and how the drivers got their seats they can read the driver articles. Mark83 10:51, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Probably too long, and certainly too listy. Having said that, there's probably little point in clearing it up until the season finishes. Once all the hoo-ha is out of the way, someone (anyone volunteering?) can clear out all the verbiage that has accumulated throughout the season. My suggestion would be that, as Mark suggests, trivial stuff like the minutiae of drivers' contracts and the endless rumours from throughout the season can be safely ditched then. Details of how some drivers came by their seats (Alonso, Hamilton and possibly Raikkonen) are probably relevant as they have had a bearing on how the season turned out. The tables on the other hand I think should stay - as they contain useful information. 4u1e 13:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I just thought that since no one, other than the top four, have scored a win, pole, or fastest lap, and there have only been four other podium places, the drivers statistics table seems unnecessary. It's pretty much just the top four that's interesting and the rest is just 18 rows of '0's.Sausageman 06:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but we (try to) have a consistent table format for all seasons.Having all results confirms that the others really didn't score anything much. Why leave out the (very few) other drivers who scored a podium during the season? 4u1e 13:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Spy Scandal

An article on BBC news, stated as BBC SPORT: Renault face McLaren spy charge has claimed that Renault has also been involved into the Spy Scandal that excluded McLaren out of this championship. Can someone please kindly have a look about it? --Blackhawk charlie2003 14:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Page Layout

Is it just me or does it seem like the results and standings are too far down in the article? You have to scroll half way down the page to get to the results table. If you look at the 2006 Formula One season, the results table is featured more prominently. In my opinion, the results table is the main reason for the page and should be listed above the Rule Changes & Pre-season Sections.Orsoni (talk) 08:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I take your point, but it seems sensible to have the article in "chronological order" as it were. And I guess if people are only interested in the results, they can go straight there using the TOC. DH85868993 (talk) 09:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

13th place

Why is the list of teams and drivers (first list) skipped number 13 as a driver? Is it always like that? Do they believe in superstition or why? Cunikm (talk) 20:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. Number 13 is never allocated (presumably) for superstitious reasons. DH85868993 (talk) 13:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

test drivers

Why are drivers who took no part in the races being incuded in the table? --Falcadore (talk) 14:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

OBN?

There is a reference made to an "OBN" network in the television section - I'd like to fix the DAB link that OBN refers to, but the only "OBN" television stations I find on WP are a small-time American outfit and a Tongan station that shut down in 2006 (so it can't be the one referred to here). Any more info you can give? Duncan1800 (talk) 06:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

My guess is it's Televizija OBN, a terrestrial television network in Bosnia-Herzegovina. I've updated the link accordingly. DH85868993 (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Vandal

Someone has replaced all the Lewis Hamilton references with Tiger Woods, needs a revert I think

It's been fixed. DH85868993 (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Dont worry, I reverted all of these back. Lmcintyre1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lmcintyre1 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)