Talk:1999 FA Cup final

Football: England / Manchester United / Season Low‑importance

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England Low‑importance

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1999 FA Cup final has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

1999 FA Cup final is part of the 1998–99 Manchester United F.C. season series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 10, 2015	Peer review	Reviewed
September 11, 2019	Good article nominee	Not listed
June 21, 2020	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
May 15, 2021	Good article nominee	Listed
August 14, 2021	Good topic candidate	Promoted
Current status: Good article

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1999 FA Cup Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 09:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a look at this one, will post review as soon as possible. Kosack (talk) 09:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Intial review

Lead

"Meanwhile, Newcastle beat Tottenham Hotspur 2–0 in their semi-final", meanwhile indicates a corresponding timescale that isn't there. Perhaps change to "In the second semi-final, Newcastle...".

Background

I'd generally avoid placing refs mid-sentence as ref 4 is. Double stack them at the end of the sentence.
"the first happened", a little clunky perhaps. "The first meeting took place"?

Route to the final

No need to link Premier League again in the first sentence.
"taking on rivals Arsenal", rivals doesn't really add anything here. In the context of a knockout tournament, every team is a rival and Arsenal are not local rivals to United.
"Newcastle were able to play their semi-final", able to play sounds rather odd.
"Manchester United's semi-final went goalless", went goalless again sounds odd. Finished goalless?
"despite Yorke being nowhere near the ball", try to tone down the pov here a little as it sounds like you're the one saying this. Something like "Although United manager Alex Ferguson stated the decision was "absolutely ridiculous" after Yorke was deemed to have been interfering with play"
"went down as one of the greatest FA Cup matches ever played", big statement with zero sourcing.
The semi-final replay paragraph reads like a journalistic match report. Phrases like "the celebrations were well underway before anyone realised that the linesman had flagged" and "it was at a good height for him to make the save" need rewording.

Team selection

"Manchester United's team selection was dominated by the need to save several players for the Champions League final", need is probably the wrong word here. They didn't need to do anything so to speak.
A lot of repeat links here, Keane, Scholes, Yorke, Beckham, Premier League, etc.
Ref 21 is dropped mid-sentence with no real need. Move it to the end of the sentence.
Link Henning Berg.
"ultimately got the job", too informal.
"After marking David Ginola out of the game", same.

Summary

I feel like there's potential for expansion on the match report, it seems relatively short right now. For example, why was Hamman booked, how did Keane get injured? The second half is limited to two chances.
"drilled it past Harper", a bit journalistic again.
Repeat links in this section as well, Keane, Schmeichel, Ferguson, Giggs.

Post-match

Most of the first and fourth paragraphs are unsourced.
"Manchester United were unable to defend their FA Cup title the following season", I don't think they were unable to defend it, the club chose not to take part.
"Their misery was compounded", a bit OTT perhaps?

These are the points I picked out in an initial run through to get you started. Placed on hold for now. Kosack (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @KingSkyLord:, its been a week since this review was posted and there doesn't seem to be much progress. Do you wish to continue with this? Kosack (talk) 07:58, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kosack: Yes, I wish to continue this review. I've fixed the majority of the issues you've mentioned, with the only part I need to fix being the Final summary. KingSkyLord (Talk page | Contributions) 12:40, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just checking for an update on this, it's been three weeks since any progress was made. Kosack (talk) 12:51, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be looking to close this review shortly as we seem to have stalled. Kosack (talk) 09:13, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm closing this nomination as this appears to have stalled. The match section is still an issue but I don't think there's a huge amount left if the article was renominated at a later date. Kosack (talk) 08:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Things to address

PeeJay2K3 as I said, a few things. I'll try to work on a couple of them.

A couple of [citation needed] are there now for facts which have no references at all.
The match report is a bit brief as noted by Kosack. I'll try to expand it a little.
Where are the precise timings for goals/yellow cards etc? The BBC report is shy of a few of them. I've found this which might be of use for a few of the major events.
Run the duplicate links checker and resolve any issues after expanding.
Where are the following referenced:
- Team formations,
- Player positions,
- Player nationalities?

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:21, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It may also be instructive to go over the comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1978 FA Cup Final/archive1 which only recently passed FA, so the thinking should be contemporary enough to apply to this article too. Head the reviewers off at the pass so to speak! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:12, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Would you mind pointing me to the duplicate links checker? I can't seem to find it. – Pee Jay 08:02, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PeeJay2K3 my "tools" on the left-hand side has "Highlight duplicate links" at bottom when I'm looking at the article. If you don't have it (it might be one of a plethora of scripts I have installed, I can't remember), I'll happily do it for you. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:07, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By all means. As long as you don't need my login details to do it, I'm happy for you to add any functionality to my profile you think is useful. – Pee Jay 08:14, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find it, are you sure you don't have it in the "tools" panel on the left of the article? I've run mine and fixed the three overlinks (along with a rephrase to avoid saying Ketsbaia twice in three words) but it's a good idea to periodically run it after making mass edits because (if you're like me) I'm never certain if I've linked items just once! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely don't have it. The only script I've installed is one to tell me the page size. I'll see if I can find the dupe links one. – Pee Jay 09:02, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Got it: it's here: User:The Rambling Man/common.js, the importScript('User:Ucucha/duplinks.js'); line. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Replays

According to this BBC article, this was the first FA Cup Final where no replay would be played in the event of a draw. Does anyone have any suggestions of how this could be integrated into the existing text? – Pee Jay 16:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1999 FA Cup Final/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: REDMAN 2019 (talk · contribs) 18:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look at this one. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background

Link penalty shoot-out.
- Done – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Route to the final

Are the multiple links to various rivalry's needed? I notice this was in the last GA review but was not fixed.
- I think if we're going to refer to Liverpool and Arsenal as Manchester United's rivals and we have articles about those rivalries, we should link to those articles. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"before Paul Scholes was sent off himself for Manchester United." -> with Paul Scholes being sent off for Manchester United.
- I disagree with this one. Di Matteo was sent off for a challenge on Scholes, so the "himself" refers back to Scholes being the victim of the previous tackle. The text didn't mention this, however, so I've reworded it. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"As per tradition, the semi-finals were played at neutral venues" No source to back this up.
- Done – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"when Phil Neville made a tired challenge on Ray Parlour inside the penalty area" The word "tired" can be dropped here.
- Changed "tired" to "rash" as that was the word used in the source. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Bergkamp stepped up to take the penalty, but Peter Schmeichel guessed the direction of his kick correctly and made the save." -> but Schmeichel saved Bergkamp's penalty to keep the scores level. Would read better.
- I'm not sure I agree. Sure, your version is shorter, but a goalkeeper can make a save without diving the right way. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Might want to change the word "net" to "goal" just after Giggs scores.
- "The roof of the net" is a common phrase, so I don't think we should change this. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-match

"Roy Keane and Paul Scholes were suspended for that match, so they were paired in central midfield" I'm assuming this is Manchester confirming their midfield lineup for the Champions League final. If so, it needs a supporting ref.
- I don't understand what you mean. I agree it probably needs a ref, but not for the reason you've mentioned. – PeeJay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm asking weather the text is referring to Manchester's UCL final lineup. Guessing that since the pair weren't able to play in the cup final, they were assured a place in the team for the next game. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 12:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - @REDMAN 2019: Keane and Scholes were suspended for the UCL final, so they played in the FA Cup final. I added a source confirming that to be true. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 14:41, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Match

"Meanwhile, Newcastle had made their game plan clear; tackles from" -> While violent tackles from. Shorter and sounds less like a journalists report.
- I've taken out the bit about Newcastle's game plan, but "violent" sounds like an opinion we can't justify. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
" but while Hamann was able to continue with a dead leg" this reads like it was Hamann who was on the receiving end of the tackle when he was the one committing it.
- I'm not sure it does. If people read the full sentence, they'll get it. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sheringham was brought on for Keane. I feel that this could do with some more info given that Ferguson was replacing a centre midfielder with a centre forward who would go on to score and be man of the match.
- What would you suggest we say? – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Post-match

The ^{[citation needed]} tag needs to be got rid of.
- I've commented it out. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

Is this section nessercery? It comprises of one sentence and could easily be merged into either the lead of the "Post-match" section.
- Done. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

Ref 5 needs a archive url as the page no longer exists at the website.
- Done. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 8 and 10 have a similar problem and needs replacing.
- The website these refs came from was originally coded in Flash. It is in the process of being recoded in HTML 5, but it may be some time before that happens. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

General

There are several instances of WP:SEAOFBLUE here, they should be sorted if possible.
- I've done as much as I can. – Pee Jay 11:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

The article needs a bit more clean-up and several references need replacing or archiving but I think that this can be brought to GA status once these matters have been dealt with. Putting on hold until those have been fixed. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 19:28, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since you have limited contributions to the article, I suggest contacting PeeJay as he has done most of the work on the article this past year and he may be able to provide advice or assistance. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@REDMAN 2019: Okay. I will see what we can do together. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 00:45, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article is in better shape now and after the last issue with the pre-match team selection is sorted I will be happy to pass this. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 12:12, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@KingSkyLord and PeeJay: I feel this now meets the GA criteria and am passing it accordingly. Congrats REDMAN 2019 (talk) 17:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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