Talk:1981 UEFA Cup final

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1981 UEFA Cup final is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 6, 2020.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 3, 2020	Good article nominee	Listed
May 31, 2020	Featured article candidate	Promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 25, 2011.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that despite conceding four goals in the second leg, English club Ipswich Town beat Dutch club AZ Alkmaar 5–4 on aggregate to win the 1981 UEFA Cup Final?

Current status: Featured article

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Attribution

Text from this version of Ipswich Town F.C. in European football has been used (and/or modified for use) here in this article. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:51, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1981 UEFA Cup Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 12:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look at this dreckly. Harrias ^talk 12:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

It is mentioned that the UEFA Cup is "Europe's secondary cup competition", but this isn't referenced, or included in the body.

Route to the final

"as a result of finishing third the previous season" Reading this, I would assume Ipswich were third in last season's UEFA Cup.
Ipswich Town and AZ need linking on their first mention in the body.
"..with the English club winning.." Avoid noun plus -ing.
"..against Greek team Aris Salonika." "..against the Greek team.."?
"The first leg, at Portman Road, .." Clarify that Portman Road is their home ground.
Link penalties.
Link John Wark on first use in the body.
"..before Gates pulled.." Expand and link Gates.
"..saw Wark on target.." Not sure that is encyclopaedic language.
"A 3–0 home win saw Wark on target twice more, who was substituted.." I'm not sure "who" works here, the grammar jars for me.
Link Kevin Beattie, also Paul Cooper.
Expand and link Thijssen and Mariner.
"Wark once again found the net, scoring a hat-trick with goals.." Needs a comma after "hat-trick".
Link Alan Brazil, and Mick Mills, and trim Mariner.
"..allowed Robson to withdraw.." Expand, link, and explain who Robson is.
Expand and link Mühren.
"..faced French team AS Saint-Étienne.." Again, "..the French team.."?
"Dutch player Johnny Rep.." "The Dutch player.."
Link "brace".
Trim Arnold Mühren and John Wark.
"has been described as one of the greatest performances in Ipswich's history" Who by?
"..with Robson noting.." Noun plus -ing again.
"..met German side 1. FC Köln. Again, "..the German side.."?
"..Wark scoring..", "..with Butcher heading.." Noun plus -ing again.

Lunch time, more to follow. Harrias ^talk 12:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers so far, all addressed. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"..to the Dutch, .." I think this should be "to the Dutch team".
"..with AZ winning.." Noun plus -ing.
"Three months later, AZ faced quarter-final opponents Lokeren of Belgium.." "faced their quarter-final opponents"?

First leg

Trim Eric Gates.
No need for "however".
"..had been recently been.." Too many beens.
Link handball. And maybe rephrase to "..following a handball by Hovenkamp."
Trim Paul Mariner and Alan Brazil.
What's the deal with substitutes? The only ones listed are those used; are the others not known? (This also applies to the second leg.)
Good question. I'll take another look at that. I suspect they're not listed anywhere reliable, just those that were used would have been recorded in the press. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a shame. I can't see anything on a quick look around either. No worries. Harrias ^talk 15:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Second leg

Any detail we can include on the fact that the match was played at the Olympic Stadium, rather than AZ's home ground?
Not that I can find. I assume it was because it had a much bigger capacity but that's speculation. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Ipswich took 6,000 travelling fans to the game." Note the overall attendance here too for comparison.
Trim Johnny Metgod.
Link unmarked.

Post-match

Consider putting the note inline, I think it is pertinent enough to include.
"Bobby Robson left the club.." Trim Bobby Robson, and clarify the club.
"AZ '67 went on to reach the semi-final of the 2004–05 UEFA Cup;[47] Ipswich made it to the third round in the 2001–02 UEFA Cup." Are they the team's only subsequent performances, or their best ones?
I think the {{clear}} template would work better in the Notes section: there would be less whitespace.

References

All looks good, no evidence of copyvio or close para-phrasing.

Nice neat and tidy article. I won't bother to put it on hold, as you're likely to deal with these issues pdq anyway. Harrias ^talk 14:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias all done and a couple of replies above. Sadly, removing the note has removed the notes section and thus the clear template can't go in there. I really want to retain the image though. Any thoughts? Anything else needed? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:48, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the template into the See also section for a minor improvement, but short of expanding the Post-match section, I don't think there's much else that can be done. Harrias ^talk 15:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistent

I had added the template to get people who may know to help cus the article says the league was second tier and UEFA Europa League says third tier, until 1999 and this is for 1981, and so one of them needs to be fixed, but User:The Rambling Man has said to start a discussion here instead, so can anyone help? 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the reference in the UEFA Europa League article. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 01:08, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have looked at the reference and left you a message there. 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:20, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It appears the usage in the Europa League article is poorly referenced and that has no bearing here at all. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 01:36, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

k, so how do we fix that article? Can we use reference from here? 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:41, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 01:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to find information in https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/history/ but that source is difficult to find information in, I have noticed that this article also uses https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/feb/14/europa-league-is-back-more-than-ever-competition-to-savour-round-of-32-arsenal but to support the opposite claim, 2nd not 3rd, so perhaps all we need to do is change 3rd to 2nd in that article or will that make someone revert me? maybe just remove the sentence in that article? what do you think? 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source makes no kind of claim over whether it's second or third tier really. If it was me, I'd just leave it. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 01:51, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So should we change reference for sentence "It was the second-tier competition of European club football, ranking below the UEFA European Cup." in this article or just remove the reference or entire sentence? 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No this article is fine, as I said all along. It has an RS backing up the text. Whatever you want to do in any other article is up to you. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 01:56, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But you said above, "The source makes no kind of claim over whether it's second or third tier really." how can this support the sentence "It was the second-tier competition of European club football, ranking below the UEFA European Cup." in the background section, this is why I asked if we should use a differrent reference for that sentence. 174.77.115.26 (talk) 01:58, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source says "This season’s round of 32 is arguably the strongest since the Uefa Cup was rebranded in 2009 and should help the second-tier tournament shed its second-rate reputation". It's fine for this article. If you have other articles to fix, fine, but I'm not interested in them right now. Good luck with them, but this article is reliably sourced per WP:V and WP:RS. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 02:03, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

hmmm the reference is from 2018 but everyone agrees it is 2nd tier after 1999 the question is was it 3rd tier in 1981! the confusion is from 1971 to 1999 and the source says nothing about that, but I will let you sleep and not change anything. Maybe someone else will stop by to help. 174.77.115.26 (talk) 02:08, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]