Talk:1902 VFL grand final

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On 25 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from 1902 VFL Grand Final to 1902 VFL grand final. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 25 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. Evidence and points presented show inconsistency between using 'Grand Final' and 'grand final' in sources, therefore by WP:NCCAPS, MOS:CAPS, the articles should be at the lowercase titles. This closure is for the list of articles as at Special:Permalink/1129444974. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 12:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Case norm; these are commonly lowercase in sources (books), so per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS, we should use lowercase. I've listed selected years, but the discussion applies to all years, and assuming we get clear consensus we'll get a bot to move the lot, the complete list of which is given at User:Dicklyon/VFL Grand Final. Dicklyon (talk) 07:03, 25 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:11, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting due to no participation echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:11, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Australia has been notified of this discussion. echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does "all years" mean the 2022 AFL Grand Final as well? And the 2022 SANFL Grand Final? And the 2022 NRL Grand Final? St Anselm (talk) 06:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the list they've given it doesn't appear so, but it really should. I'm not opposed to this move but someone would have to look and see if the literature refers to all of them the same way. OliveYouBean (talk) 07:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The list linked in the proposal has all 91 years for this VFL event. AFL, SANFL, NRL, etc., will follow. Dicklyon (talk) 10:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My read of sources is that it's inconsistent: a specific grand final often takes upper case like a proper noun, and often takes lower case like a common noun. Refs: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ron-barassis-greatest-gamble/news-story/3bfdea2ade1d5ad0ea91ab1cb4127181 https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/frozen-in-time-alex-jesaulenko-mark-the-enduring-image-of-amazing-1970-grand-final/news-story/27559af4c26288f709314cf0e8c35e26 https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/56068/harmes-famous-intercept I wouldn't say there's a strong case either way, but note that capitalisation of the final is common across many sports (e.g 2022 FA Cup Final, 2022 Stanley Cup Finals) so would lean towards not moving. Aspirex (talk) 22:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: In light of the above comments, it's clear that I should have proposed moving a more comprehensive set of "* Finals" and "* Grand Finals". I'll do that later, whether this one goes or not. Dicklyon (talk) 02:19, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Unnecessary and inconsistent with general WP practice. StAnselm (talk) 02:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- That doesn't make any sense. What's WP:CONSISTENT with loads and loads of previous RMs is lower-casing "final", "tournament", and other such terms in our sports article titles, and what is "unnecessary" is adding capitalization. To quote the first sentence of MOS:CAPS: "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization.". — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:34, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support—this is a no-brainer. en.WP and many other publishers don't capitalise more than absolutely necessary. I don't see that "grand final" is part of a proper name, though I suppose the advertisers of such events will use title case in their promotions, to big-note it. Here we have more important stylistic issues to consider. Next we'll be asked to cap Half Time and Deciding Match. Tony (talk) 04:17, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:NCCAPS, MOS:CAPS and evidence by Aspirex. If it is not consistently capitalised in sources, we should use lowercase.Cinderella157 (talk) 00:07, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. An ngram suggests source do not consistently capitalize. [1] — Amakuru (talk) 17:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per all of the above. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:34, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.