Help talk:IPA/Taiwanese Hokkien

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Move to Hokkien

I understand this help page is based on the standard Kaohsiung accent ("通行腔") adopted in the existing Hokkien music and television industry. The issue is that the current "Taiwanese" prefix implies other Hokkien dialects do not fit the key of this page, which is not the case. The current page actually structures itself to take into account the dialectal variation in Quanzhou and Zhangzhou. Hence, the current page is well-positioned to be moved to the new title Help:IPA/Hokkien. I understand there are lexical differences among standard Kaohsiung, Quanzhou and Zhangzhou, but their phonology could be managed by one key. As Taylor (2008) put it,

Hokkien is known by different names in others parts of the world. Most noticeably, in Taiwan, where Hokkien is spoken by a majority of the population, the dialect is almost universally referred to as ‘Taiyu’ (literally ‘Taiwanese’). Whilst the appropriation of the dialect into a discourse of ‘Taiwaneseness’ throughout the course of the 20th century is of relevance to some of the issues I shall be examining below, it will suffice at this stage to note that, despite some differences in vocabulary and accent, Taiyu is essentially Hokkien by another name. Similarly, in the PRC, the term Minnanyu is used, while historically the term Xiayu or Xiamenyu – literally, ‘the language of Xiamen’, but most often rendered in English as ‘Amoy dialect’ – has also been employed at different periods. Whilst there are variations of Hokkien in different parts of the world, and despite the fact that many of these variations have themselves been identified by scholars – e.g. ‘Taiwanese Hokkien’ (Ho 1991) and ‘Standard Malaysian Hokkien’ (Tan C. 2000: 46), for instance – speakers of this dialect in Taiwan, the PRC, Singapore, Malaysia and elsewhere are able to communicate with one another and understand recordings made in Hokkien; Taiyu, Minnanyu, Xiayu and Hokkien are ostensibly the same dialect.

Taylor, Jeremy E. (2008). "From transnationalism to nativism? The rise, decline and reinvention of a regional Hokkien entertainment industry". Inter-Asia Cultural Studies. 9 (1): 63.

-- love.wh 13:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Directing nan code here

Currently, the ISO 639-3 code for Min Nan "nan" is being undesirably shared among the dominant Min Nan variety Hokkien and two minor Min Nan varieties Teochew and Hainanese. Wikipedia is being disproportionately "equal" by denying all three varieties the "nan" hyperlink and hence unhelpfully directing {{IPA|nan}} to the generic Help:IPA key, which has no Min Nan vocabulary examples or footnotes whatsoever. A much better disambiguation model is to direct {{IPA|nan}} to at least one of the Min Nan varieties. The dominant variety, Hokkien, seems most appropriate. I am calling for "nan" to be directed to this page. If and when IPA/Teochew and IPA/Hainanese keys are to be created in the future, IPA/Hokkien (nan) should leave a header alerting readers the existence of those two keys in case editors mistakenly use "nan" for Teochew/Hainanese and end up on IPA/Hokkien. -- love.wh 13:27, 12 November 2023 (UTC)