Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2011

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Locator maps for Welsh placename articles

There is a discussion ongoing about which Locator map is used on Welsh placename articles at Template talk:Infobox UK place. This has implications for every article using the UK place template (which is nearly all placename articles). Please add your comments and indicate a preference between the options. Skinsmoke (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Gwynedd/VANNES is also a city in Breizh/Bretagne/Brittany. It is a beautiful city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.141.59.241 (talk) 13:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is a Featured Sound

This, the earliest known recording in Welsh, has been promoted as a Featured Sound because of its historical importance. Does anybody have any ideas for further nominations? Bencherlite^Talk 07:50, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposed change to wording at Tom Pryce

A proposal has been made at Talk:Tom Pryce#A Welsh racing driver to change the wording in the lead paragraph regarding Pryce's nationality. It's a proposal specific to that article and not applicable to other articles, not yet at least. Anyone wanting to have their say, please do so. Daicaregos (talk) 20:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to Transactions of the Anglesey Antiquarian Society or Archaeologia_Cambrensis?

I've made a request for a few articles at this location to help with an ongoing attempt to write about every listed church on Anglesey. Can anyone help? Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 22:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Wales good aritcle not mentioned?

Heavy metal band Bullet for My Valentine's page is a good article, but it is not mentioned in the 'Good Article' section. Could someone please change that?Beaverbillins (talk) 02:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. FruitMonkey (talk) 08:30, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Moylgrove or Moylegrove - Pembrokeshire

I was writing an article for Ceibwr Bay on a stub page, when I discovered the long over due merger discusssion for the articles on the same village in Pembrokeshire, either called Moylgrove or Moylegrove. I suspect that the original spelling in Welsh was without the "e", but the spelling with the "e" now seems far, far more common. Suggestions on which one we should adopt as to where the real article should go, and hence merged to? Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 03:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

A Google Books search gives far more results on Moylgrove (including both contemporary and historic sources) than Moylegrove. If Moylgrove is still used then go with this one.

As far as the "original" spelling goes, in either case it's a mangling of the Welsh moel combined with an English word, so neither is any more authentic in that regard.Svejk74 (talk) 12:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency on this. This page from "Visit Pembrokeshire", developed by the Pembrokeshire County Council, calls it "Moylgrove". One would think the county council would be informed about such things. However, the council's own web page tends to call it "Moylegrove".[1] Additionally, for what it's worth, though, this site evidently put together by local businessmen call it "Moylegrove", and it's "Moylegrove" on Google Maps (even if you type in "Moylgrove"). Just to keep it interesting, some sources use the form "Moyle Grove" as well. I'd say we should just pick whichever one appears to be more common, by however much, and redirect the other to it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Moylgrove. Went there on hols almost 40 years ago. The Ordnance Survey map of the area doesn't use an "e". --Redrose64 (talk) 14:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Llangeler

Re. the bathing rite at Llangeler, Ffynnon Celer: the missing megalith 'llech' appears to be 3km away near to Ffynnon Fair so possibly Capel Mair at Ffynnon Fair [Lwynffynnon] was the original location for the healing ritual?

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=7456 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megalith6 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

St David's Day

As far as I'm aware there are no Welsh articles ready for FA status on 1 March. That said if anyone would like to get multiple Welsh DYKs for 1 March then please try to get them in soon and we'll try to get a special date for this. Thanks FruitMonkey (talk) 00:04, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

If you mean to feature on the main page, how about William Cragh or Tom Pryce? Daicaregos (talk) 08:12, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Malleus Fatuorum, the primary author of Cragh, would be anxious to see that on the main page, given the stresses he has had with recent TFAs. There might be just enough time to push through Pryce at WP:TFAR - it scores two points for time since promotion, but would need to find another point from somewhere to displace one of the current five articles nominated there. It won't be author history (as the main author has had a TFA) or "widely covered" (it has 19 interwiki links, 1 short of the 20 needed for a bonus point). If nominated for 5th March, it would gain a date relevance point (anniversary of death) but not for St David's Day (that's too tangential a link for TFA points purposes). If no similar article had appeared in the last three months, that would gain it a point, or if someone wrote a stub on Simple Wikipedia and linked it in the interwikis, that would gain a point. Bencherlite^Talk 08:28, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

That was just scarey. It transpires that there is much to do in a short space of time. As Wales is now a GA, what are the chances of getting the article on the main page in twelve months time? FruitMonkey (talk) 23:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Good if we work on it, not so good if we don't;)--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Huzzah. Is there anyone who knows how to drive this forward, as Bencherlite's points thing is way above my head. I'm happy to help as much as possible, but I have never tried to get an article to FA ststus before. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The points thing is described at WP:TFA/R. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Afonwen

I grew up in the village of Afonwen. It was never known as Afon-wen to the locals but is listed as Afon-wen on WIkipedia. I don't know how to edit the article title. Can someone edit it to Afonwen? --ChemConnector (talk) 04:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

OS maps use "Afon-wen", hyphenated. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

"Anglesey" or "Isle of Anglesey"?

There's a page name discussion taking place at Talk:Isle of Anglesey at present, which might be of interest. Bencherlite^Talk 08:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Principality of Wales

This page (Principality of Wales) is wildly inaccurate and based more on wishful thinking than on actual academically researched historical facts. Worse still other Wikipedias use the English version as a reference, further disseminating what basically amounts to misinformation. I suggest you visit the Welsh version to get an idea of what a thorough, researched, academically accurate and comprehensive article on this subject should look like. Sanddef (talk) 08:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

First Minister bio infoboxes

I've deleted Elizabeth II from these infoboxes, as she's not the 'Monarch of Wales'. What's the view here, concerning my deletions? GoodDay (talk) 01:17, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

My view is that you're wrong, but for convenience, please let's everyone concentrate the discussion here.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 01:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

GoodDay is wrong, reversing yet another set of edits that he knew would provoke. GoodDay, please get agreement before making mass changes to information boxes, you have been told about this time and time again. --Snowded ^TALK 07:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Deputy First Minister for Wales RM

Howdy, we need more imput at that article's RM. GoodDay (talk) 00:40, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

WikiConference UK 2011 16 April 2011: Watershed Bristol

If you missed the Wikibanner, full details of the above at {http://wikiconferenceuk2011.eventbrite.com/} Diolch yn fawr! Jezhotwells (talk) 00:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Iwan Huws

This new BLP article may be of interest to this WikiProject.  Chzz  ►  12:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Kidwelly and Llanelly Canal

I am intending to submit this article for WP:GAN. However, I need a bit of advice. The article is named using the modern spelling of Llanelli, but an IP editor changed the spelling in the article to use the old spelling of Llanelly, so there is an inconsistancy between the title and the content. I wondered if anyone on this project had thoughts on the best route to resolve this. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Personally, if the canal was known as the Llanelly Canal, and was still known by that spelling at the time it ceased to be used, then I would go for Llanelly as that is what would be found in reference books.FruitMonkey (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I have renamed the page. Bob1960evens (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Wales and Super Furry Animals

I have been working on Portal:Wales, trying to bring it back to a state worthy of being called a featured portal. I think it's getting close. As part of my efforts, I have been looking for more recognised content that could be showcased by the portal. In particular, I was hoping to unearth more featured pictures of Wales; there seem to be very few indeed (just one?). One thing I did rediscover, however, was a number of good articles on works by Super Furry Animals, comprising one standalone GA and two featured topics with four and five GAs respectively:

• Mwng
• Rings Around the World ("Juxtapozed with U", "(Drawing) Rings Around the World", "It's Not the End of the World?")
• Phantom Power ("Golden Retriever", Slow Life, "Hello Sunshine", Phantom Phorce)

I was wondering whether the members of this project thought that these should be tagged with {{WikiProject Wales}} or not. It's not a field I often edit in, so I am unsure of the precedents. At the very least, I would think that Mwng would be a valid topic, as the best-selling Welsh-language album ever. I welcome your opinions. --Stemonitis (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. Yes, they should. I'll do that now. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 06:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added them to Portal:Wales/Features, too. --Stemonitis (talk) 07:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Refs of Y Gododdin

I copy here the message which I left on the talk page of the article:

Hello. I work this article for the french wikipedia, and I have a problem with certain references. The reference 19 and 56 ("Williams") refers to what book quoted in bibliography ? Idem for "Jackson" (refs 26, 50, 51, 57 and 59), and "Williams (1972)" (52, 53, 55). There are several books of these authors in bibliography, and for William, none of the 1972 (unless it is the first edition of that of the 1980?). Thank you, and sorry for my bad english.

Could you help me ? It's a Good Article. Thank you very much. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 15:20, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

This is an excellent point well raised. I have added the dates to all the cites where only a single book was present, but as Harmonia Amanda states Williams and Jackson can not be assumed due to multiple books. If anyone has just one of the books it will help cut down or solve most of the problems raised. Diolch. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Using the 1978 paperback of Jackson's 1969 work, I confirmed that all of the ambiguous Jackson references in the citations were references to the 1969 work, and modified the article accordingly. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 19:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Great work Notuncurious, that just leaves Williams work to pin down. If anyone is off to a decent library soon, could they make a note of the book, it would be much appreciated to ensure this article's GA status with correctly noted cites. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 09:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, can I remember you this problem ? References called "Williams" (19 and 56) doesn't refer to a book f the bibliography... Sorry for my very bad english. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Cwmafan / Cwmavon

I've hit a problem with a bit of disambiguation. It appears there are two Cwmavons. One is Cwmavon, Torfaen, while the other is the village of Cwmafan in Neath Port Talbot. In recent encyclopedias, Cwmafan NPT is called Cwmavon. Should the article be moved to its English name or does the town now call itself Cwmafan? It's a bit of a mess as the electoral ward that encompasses it is Bryn and Cwmavon. Though streetmap calls in Cwmafon. Advice please. FruitMonkey (talk) 13:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

NPT council seem to use both versions. The Library is called Cwmafan. Residents' walking and action groups call themselves Cwmafan (same ref). The community centre is Cwmavon, as is the ward as you say. The Centre and schools are Cwmafan. The Welsh Academi Encyclopaedia has it as Cwmavon, but doesn't have an entry for Cwmavon, Torfaen. I would leave it as Cwmafan. Daicaregos (talk) 18:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Englynion y Clywaid

A Welsh speaker is need to translate from Welsh wikipedia.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

What makes a good local article?

I'm writing a blog post about what makes a good local article (or set of articles) on Wikipedia - in other words articles about a specific place, such as a town or village, and its features, people, etc.

What do you think we currently do well, or badly, in that regard. What do you, or would you, like to see, in such articles? What are the best examples?

Please feel free to prior discussion, if you know of any. Cheers, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you mean Wales, Britain or places world wide. Also is good just good or GA status? FruitMonkey (talk) 12:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Any or all of those. Thanks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

New article: Llanelli railway strike

Following an excellent BBC article published today, I have started the Llanelli railway strike article. Please improve if you can, especially additional quality / academic refs. Ta. (By the way, I have redirected "the great unrest" to this article, but now doubt the wisdom of this, as the strike seems to be only a part of wider unrest. Maybe another, wider, article is needed?)--Mais oui! (talk) 12:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Football task force

Are there any members of WP:WALES who would be interested in helping out with a new task force focused on Welsh football? The scope of the task force would include all Welsh players either born in Wales or to Welsh parents, as well as anyone who has played for a Welsh national team (any age group or women's football), or for a club in Wales and/or in the Welsh league system (so as to include Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, Merthyr Tydfil, Colwyn Bay and The New Saints players). The clubs themselves would also be covered, as would the national teams and all the related football grounds. Finally, Welsh football competitions would also come under the task force's umbrella. The structure of the task force would be based on the successful task force model employed by WP:FOOTY, which would be the primary parent project for the task force. If I can get five people on board for this, I will create all the necessary pages and categories, and I will begin tagging article talk pages with assessment tags. I hope this will spark some interest in the project. Looking forward to hearing from you all. – PeeJay 14:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone? – PeeJay 15:58, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, is everyone in here so apathetic towards football? Or is WP:WALES merely going the way of the dinosaur? – PeeJay 10:57, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I enjoy football and I do support Wales, but it's not really what I do much of on Wikipedia. Sorry :o) — OwenBlacker (Talk) 22:10, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe those who are potentially interested don't watch this page? Might be worth looking at the edit history of related articles and leaving a message on editors user talk page. I'd love the content of what you're proposing to be on Wikipedia (need a back up of stats pages from the excellent welsh-premier.com), but it's not my main priority, sorry.--Rhyswynne (talk) 15:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I've just got too much on my plate. I actually saw the Who's Who of Welsh Football Internationals (going back to year dot) in a Book Shop in Cardiff and had to force myself to keep my money in my wallet. With the work that I do on Welsh places, Welsh film, Welsh rugby and Welsh boxing, I just couldn't take on another stream. Sorry mate. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, guys. Thanks for the replies. Thanks to the support from editors at WP:FOOTY, I have set up the task force anyway at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Wales task force, so if any of you ever find the time to edit Welsh football articles, feel free to add your names to the list of participants. After all, it doesn't matter how much work you do on those articles, only that you lend your support. Cheers. – PeeJay 18:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Gwbert

When Gwbert was last reviewed, it was a stub comprising just two sentences. I wonder if someone would like to re-evaluate it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hogyn Lleol (talk • contribs)

Reviewed. A good effort. Article raised from stub to C class. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello, there may be more traditional welsh bands to go on List of Welsh bands article. Traditional music is actually a bit more widespread :). there are many folk/traditional festivals all across Wales during the summer. Celtic music in the United States and Celtic music in Canada seem to think that Welsh music is highly influential to them(welsh, irish and scottish), yet music of Wales page is deemed , low importance. I guess the Canadians and Americans are talking about traditional Welsh (Celtic) music (folk) rather than choir music (folk) which is far more widespread (traditional I mean) ok thanks. http://www.gowerrockfestival.co.uk/home.htm - play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POwIfgjf4lU - play

Ceredwen - Welsh band — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.111.17.114 (talk) 17:52, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Leah27011987 (talk • contribs) 23:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC) 

Proposal being made on WT:IMOS

Might be of interest this proposal Mo ainm~Talk 15:43, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

CFR nomination: Category:Welsh Assembly Government

Please see:

• Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_September_7#Category:Welsh_Assembly_Government

--Mais oui! (talk) 06:02, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Post-medieval use of the term "Principality of Wales"

The article Principality of Wales currently has a hatnote stating: "This article is about the historical Principality (1216–1542). For the modern country, see Wales." I have suggested that, because the article mentions post-1542 usages of the term (which occurred in official legislation as well as in general parlance), the hatnote should be amended to include, at the end of the first sentence, words such as: "and later use of the term." Another editor disagrees. My view is that, whether post-medieval usage of the term is seen as an "error" or not, WP should reflect and provide information on the actual usage of the term "Principality of Wales", and that the hatnote should reflect that. Views are welcome at Talk:Principality of Wales#Article content and hatnote. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:56, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Rate this page

I was fairly disappointed with the ratings left on the Wales article, until I saw the ratings the Scotland (also a GA article) page got. Does anyone now if reviewers leave information as to areas they are unhappy with which we can access to improve articles? FruitMonkey (talk) 16:56, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

CFD notification: Category:Religious history of Wales

Please see the proposed deletion discussion regarding:

• Category:Religious history of Wales

Ta, --Mais oui! (talk) 11:17, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

MonmouthpediA

Dear All

I started MonmouthpediA, a project to create Wikipedia articles on interesting and notable places, people, artefacts, a flora and fauna guide etc in Monmouth and to display QR code using QRpedia where appropriate to deliver the articles to users, in their preferred language including Welsh. Articles will have geotagging to allow a virtual tour of the town using the Wikipedia layer on Google Streetview, Google Maps and will be available in augmented reality software including Layar. MonmouthpediA may not use standard black and white QR codes to differentiate between MonmouthpediA codes and other schemes and individual's codes. It will be the first QRpedia project cover a whole town including outside.

If you are interested in it, head over to WP:GLAM/MonmouthpediA

Many thanks

John Mrjohncummings (talk) 19:25, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Anglesey church photographs - help wanted!

I'm steadily working through the churches on Anglesey that have listed building status, and wondered whether there was anyone reading this who could help with photos. Nearly all the listed churches are represented at commons (commons:Category:Churches in Anglesey) but there are three that are missing: St Trygarn's Church, Llandrygarn; St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch; and St Morhaiarn's Church, Gwalchmai. Does anyone have photos of these, or does anyone live close enough to get some? I've checked Geograph, but they aren't on there.

Also, if you have any decent photos of Anglesey churches, particularly interior shots, I'd be delighted to hear about them. Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 12:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Welsh actors actresses

Complete wiki newbie here so do be gentle, posting here because I linked to it from the Welsh Actors page. It occured to me as I looked for a Welsh Actor on the Wiki Welsh Actors page that I was searching for an ACTOR not an ACTRESS! So why are there females in the Welsh actors wiki page? Also Why is the parent directory "Welsh actors" got 95 entries and its Subcategories such as Welsh Film Actors has 132 entries & subcategory Welsh TV actors has 182 entries??? Surely the parent directory should include all the names from all the subcategories....! Bugloss (talk) 16:15, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't go for the male/female job title, so actors are both male and female, there is also no category for poetess, giantess, etc. The subcategories are also members of its parent category. Therefore if you look for Category:Welsh people, there are very few in there as they should be categorised in the cleaner subdirectories. Hope that helps. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

New Articles list

I notice some of the articles listed as 'new' on the Project page are over 2 years old. Should the list be reviewed to remove articles from the list that are more than a certain age? ...say 12 months?? Sionk (talk) 16:17, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I see Fruitmonkey removed several articles in January 2011 that were more than 12 months old. I'll remove the few more that have reached their birthday. Sionk (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Me again! I removed the articles from the list that were more than 18 months old, otherwise the list would have become very short! People somehow need to be reminded to add their new creations to the list, there must be dozens of interesting additions out there somewhere...? Sionk (talk) 16:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Government of Wales

A strange little article. Should it just be deleted, or is there scope to improve it? Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

At the moment it seems to duplicate Welsh Government. I'm not an expert in semantics, but I would expect 'Government of Wales' to describe how Wales has been governed over many centuries (not restricted to post 1998). Sionk (talk) 15:31, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems to me it would be best as a disambiguation page, with content removed. The articles for England, Scotland and NI are equally odd. I'll raise the question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:38, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Green Coast Award

You will all have heard of Blue Flag beach awards, which has a page on Wikipedia. Less well known is the Green Coast Award, also administered in Wales, by Keep Wales Tidy. It has a less stringent set of criteria, designed to suit rural beaches with minimal infrastructure & resources, with an emphasis on environment and community. Wikipedia doesn't have a page, so I created it. But it was immediately put up for speedy deletion, on the grounds of "Unambiguous advertising or promotion". Although I put a case for it, arguing that I simply wanted to explain what it was, and it's basic criteria - no promotion was involved, it was immediately deleted by this single user. End of. Don't know why I bother .... Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 20:09, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

One way forward would be to create an article on Keep Wales Tidy, referring to the Green Coast (and other} schemes, and drawing on independent sources such as this, this, this and this. There is no good reason why an article on the organisation itself should be deleted. After doing that, you could make a case to User:Fastily that the deleted article should be copied over to your sandbox, so you can work on it and add further references. I should monitor WP:AFD, but I never do, I'm afraid. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Ghmyrtle. You've obviously done a bit of homework on those sources. Might just do that - when I feel a bit more positive about things .... Season's Greetings / Dymuniadau'r tymor Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 22:20, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

For info, I have now created Keep Wales Tidy which, amongst its other work, outlines the awards. I may or may not expand the two lesser awards at some point, but for the moment they redirect to this main page Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 11:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia on Wales Today and Radio Wales tomorrow

Just to let you know me and Victuallers will be on Radio Wales at 7.50am tomorrow talking about Wikipedia and I'll be on Wales Today (not sure what time) talking about Monmouthpedia.

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 19:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Welsh Rarebit (radio programme)

Just dropping a note here (and I'll drop a copy on the talk page at WP:BBC) on the off-chance someone might have sources for the Welsh Rarebit (radio programme) article. I came across it at Special:Newpages and while I had heard of it, I haven;t been able to find more than few sources for the article (particularly for dates), which the article could do with. I am fairly confident that it did start in 1938 on the Welsh Regional Programme and a figure of 12 million listeners given in a source is a reasonable figure. (Actually that would make it one of the most popular Welsh made BBC programmes ever; 12 million is about 1600-1800 milliWhos by my calculation). One other thing that springs tto mind is that the producer from 1941, Mai Davies, along with one of the performers, wrote We`ll Keep a Welcome (in the Hillside) which was played at the end of the programme (and of course became a bit of a standard); anyway, if anyone has any sources that couldn't be found online, the article needs them. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 16:07, 25 June 2011‎ (UTC)