Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Timeline Tracer

About WikiProject Timeline Tracer

We are a multidisciplinary group dedicated to improving Wikipedia's articles in:

• • Accuracy of the Chronology of references
    • Accuracy of historical or cultural heritage and lineage claims of modern religions, movements, organizations, groups and societies
      • Accurate and sufficient sources for chronology/history verification.
        
        

Our purpose:

• Where dates or periods are mentioned that are important to the article's subject, those must be clear, accurate and must have citations to reliable sources
• When an article's subject should have its orgins and development described, the article must have a history section and this must be accurate and have reliable sources.

A verifiable chronology or history reference should be:

• As exact as possible in a point in time. -----Accurate in definition. -----Supported by reliable sources and evidence

_{(For more information on WikiProjects, please see Wikipedia:WikiProject and the Guide to WikiProjects.)}

Please post your messages clicking on the "+" tab at the top of the page

WP:TORIG is now WP:TIMETRACE (also WP:TIMET)

WikiProject True Origins WP:TORIG is now WikiProject Timeline Tracer WP:TIMETRACE also WP:TIMET. This follows many opinions that the previous name of the project could confuse or provide negative feelings in some users. I hope the new name serves well Daoken 02:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

To all members

Please remember to change, in the page where you have your userboxes, {{user trueorig}} for {{user timetrace}} or {{user timetracer}} (smaller). I have changed the template {{user trueorig}} for it looks and act as {{user timetrace}} but safest is to change it editing your userbox page Daoken 11:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Nice project!

This is a very useful project I believe, there are soooo many articles wrong but WRONG ! Well, for now I registered as Friend, later may be like a Participant. In my new talk page there is a bit of humor for TimeTracers Vanished user 22:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Vanished User your user pages are hilarious

I was rolling of laugh, like your styleTopTopView 23:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. That's superb! Pedro |  Chat  09:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That is just lol and lol Daoken 11:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful! I was looking for the oxygen mask and under-the-seat-life-preserver instructions..! Very funny! Dreadstar † 17:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I add my laugh there ℒibrarian2 20:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Make my best, keep tuned for new onesVanished user 07:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Curious

I'm just curious why the original project was not moved to here, instead of newly creating this and copying the old info into it? Moving a page preserves the history, the talk page conversations, and talk page history. I'd think you would want to preserve all that. Regardless, the new name is much nicer! ^Ariel♥Gold 09:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know how to do it, asked for help to some sysop but never got response so I assumed that in spite of that there is lots of kindness helping with small things and so, when it was about something more complex, there was an unspoken policy of "work your things out, that is the best way to learn", which was fine. I also didn't want to hang on to someone always asking for help, so I made the best I could with my limited knowledge of Wiki. I hope that there is no problem with not having moved all, I just set up the new and redirected the old. Daoken 11:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Should be no problem, the history in the redirect page still exists for licensing purposes, which is the key factor. We can always have an administrator move or merge the old history here if it's important. Good job! Dreadstar † 17:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:TIMETRACE has been enhanced, give a look

WikiProject Timeline Tracer has been greatly enhanced with Guidelines and Strategy as well as many alternatives which will make your editions more easy to target, easier to tag or comment and much more. Please go to WP:TIMETRACE, give a look in the new tools and get busy helping articles. Remember that this WikiProject is helping the backbone (beyond content) of all articles , Reliable Sources and Verification. Thank you for participating Daoken 11:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I must say that I am impressed. Great job. ℒibrarian2 16:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

It's beautiful! Dreadstar † 17:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

{{timefact}}

I'd prefer to avoid large banners in cases where the article is 99% ok. Can I suggest a tag for use within the text, similar to {{fact}}? The text could, in fact, be identical to {{fact}}: the difference would be the category/categories added. Good idea? Bad idea? Jakew 19:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

That is a very good idea, I created {{Timefact}} and will post it at the Resources page and Guidelines Good call! Vanished user 08:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

A good thing to add to resources Daoken 09:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

Hello all! I thought I would let you know that the reliable sources guideline was recently re-written. You may wish to review it, and possible revise the Wikipedia:WikiProject Timeline Tracer/Reliable sources. I would actually suggest simply redirecting that page to the current WP:RS, since copying and pasting part of Wikipedia into another has its own issues (see Wikipedia:Verbatim copying). Perhaps instead of the RS section here, you could make it a supplement to historical references that talks about issues that editors may run into when dealing with older historic sources, giving tips on how to find valid, verifiable sources. Just a suggestion! Cheers, ^Ariel♥Gold 09:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Reasonable point, I changed WP:TIMETRS, if anyone disagrees please revert, but I think is better now and will not need to be updated if WP changes the RS criteria Vanished user 10:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding request templates

• Template:Histref
• Template:Histrefeval
• Template:Histrefm
• Template:Histrefverif

Hey, WikiProject Timeline Tracer! The above templates are meant for cleanup and content addition in articles, but are redundant to {{histinfo}} and other templates, such as {{refimprove}}. In addition, WikiProject notices should go on an article's talk page. May I suggest that these templates be deleted, or that they go to the article's talk page? Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, Gracenotes^T § 21:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. Those templates are specific to chronological or time-line lack of references, unlike the general ones. Therefore are indicating to the editors precisely what they must look for, not just references but to verify dates and time-lines.

The templates have been well received in all articles where we placed those and the editors showed fast compliance so the templates are working well in their purpose and speed up historical referencing by narrowing the focus to what exactly needs reference.

The placement on talk pages didn't yield results and was ignored so we started to follow the same strategy than other projects and placing them in the main article. We also have developed small templates which don't disturb the main appearance of the article and are placed at the footnotes. I hope this clarifies your doubts, thank you for your suggestions. Daoken 07:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The guidelines were adapted following the concern presented . See WP:TIMETGD Daoken 08:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

These templates most certainly are not redundant, they address directly the issues regarding historical validity and allow the editors to know exactly what is missing. The new guidelines are, I think, a reasonable view. ☤'ProfBrumby 13:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Would it be possible to use more accessible terminology than "historical references"? For example, "historically [adjective] references" ([adj] could possibly be "reliable"). How an article should be corrected under the project's guidelines is somewhat unclear to me; do any participants have an example diff I could see? Thanks, Gracenotes^T § 00:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

"Reliable" could awake some controversy and debate about how reliable is a given source. But it can be for example "historical/timeline specific sources" or "timeline confirming references/sources". Do you have any suggestion?

About your other question, a simplified view is:

a) an article describes dates and facts happening at one point in time but fails to source those claims, or

b) an article describes its subject but fails to describe its history or development timeline, or

c) an article claims a lineage but fails to source that claim.

The article's editors then must, in case:

a) insert sources for verification of those claims, or in case

b) provide a well sourced history or timeline of the article's subject, or in case

c) insert sources that verify the claims.

You may go to WP:TIMETST and search the categories for seeing some examples of how articles were improved.

At this point, with thanks for your input, after trying to integrate your suggestions, and said in a most friendly way, it could be most interesting to know how you came to be interested in our project. I see that your interest is not enough for joining but nevertheless you show remarkable interest in the details of the project. I hope you can clarify my doubts. Thank you again for your most useful suggestions. Daoken 08:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

After some thinking, perhaps "sources for chronology/history verification" ? Is this sounding more accessible? Daoken 15:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

New guidelines

Please review some changes to WP:TIMETGD related to how to use the tags. Daoken 09:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

More clear

I think that now the purpose is more clear. I will use the new guidelines as described in the message received at my talk page Jenny^Len☤ 16:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Tags and categories

At WP:UPDATE we have recently reviewed all guidelines at the light of some namespace policies. As it seems that WP:TIMET may be suffering from similar "discomfort" , I will WP:BOLD and take care of actualizing all tags and categories. This is for sparing you the trouble. If Daoken or anyone thinks I acted wrongly please let me know and revert the changes, I am doing this in the best intention ℒibrarian2 05:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, that was a fine and timely work. Well done! Daoken 08:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Time

Should not the relation to Wikipedia:WikiProject Time be established and outlined on the project page? __meco 16:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome to propose in this talk page what do you want to include Daoken 16:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

That that project be mentioned as a related project? __meco 20:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I added you to the cooperation banner, is that ok? ℒibrarian2 19:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it's appropriate for reasons of synergy effect if for no other. __meco 19:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting

This is an interesting WikiProject. I agree that many articles are lamentable at giving historical context, let alone referencing it. Have you considered working with Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Science? Carcharoth 12:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That is a good idea Jenny^Len☤ 19:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree Daoken 18:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Bot

I recommend to try this bot, it may help Daoken 05:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Jenkem

This article about a drug and a phenomenon that is currently breaking in the US news media already has some timeline issues which needs to be monitored if not addressed directly. I have already given heads-up to WikiProject Update Watch about this. __meco 14:38, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Following the discussion at the article's talk page I splitted the timelines into a new article See Jenkem media surge (2007)‎ Daoken 12:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Although this has currently been undone, that is not the end of this. I hope members of this project will keep assisting in the development of the Jenkem article. __meco 17:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Timefact

Template:Timefact has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Adam Cuerden ^talk 09:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the notification. The necessary comments are at the TfD page. Once again, and as said previously at User_talk:Adam_Cuerden#POV wars please do not stalk or target this project with your animosity against editors who happen to be WP:TIMET members but who contradict you on their own and not as representatives of this project. This type of behavior is perhaps a sequel of the pending arbitration Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Matthew_Hoffman/Proposed_decision#... RfA possible too, please refrain from such behavior. Daoken 09:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Reminder

Hello. You may have seen that some Wikipedia articles lack sources to given dates, timelines and chronologies.
If you feel that you could like to help in making all articles more reliable and well sourced in this regard, we would like to encourage you to use, as part of your daily editing and when {{fact}} is not enough for requesting clearly and specifically a citation or source for dates, timeline or chronology, the following inline tag:

{{Timefact}} displays ^{{chronology source needed}} for requesting timelines, dates and chronology sources. Click here for more information

At WP Timeline Tracer, we thank you for using these tools and for helping to make Wikipedia articles more accurate and reliable.

Daoken 10:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

A discussion

An important discussion on " Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? " is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - , member of WikiProject Council. 14:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Founding of Japan

On the list of countries in chronological order of achieving statehood, the date given for the founding of Japan, 660 BC, is the traditional date derived from Japanese legend. But in actual historical fact, the Yamato state which would evolve into a unified, coordinated country did not emerge until many centuries later. Whether that date is 538, when the capital was founded at Asuka, 710 when the capital was founded at Nara, or earlier in the Kofun period, is certainly a matter of debate. Many scholars of Japanese history would likely argue that there was no country of "Japan" until 1868. But in any case, whatever date we may choose, it's certainly not 660 BC, as that's simply completely historically inaccurate, going back to a period during the Jomon period before there was any organized government or society of any kind beyond small chiefdoms, extended family clan villages, or something to that effect. Please see discussion at Talk:List of countries in chronological order of achieving statehood, and respond there, not here. Thank you. LordAmeth (talk) 01:45, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Open participation

This project, given its scope, will no longer be limited to participation by members but instead will be open to participation. We encourage all Wikipedia editors to review the Guidelines and to add historical and chronolical accuracy tags to articles needing these. Thank you Daoken 16:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Help needed

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can help expand and clean-up this article. Thanks -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 10:01, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:KIS label

Your WP:Keep It Simple label, {{User label WPTimetracer}} is in danger of being deleted. See (Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 February 6#Template:User_label.) If you still want it, you may wish to move it to project space, perhaps a redirect page Template:Label WPTimetracer or Template:Label WikiProject Timetracer by placing {{db-move|Template:User label WPTimetracer|[[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 February 6#Template:User_label]]}} above the redirect. Also see {{user label}} for technical details. Feel free to review my planning page, User:PC-XT/KIS, and talk there if you have questions. PC-XT (talk) 01:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Horrible Histories

Hi. We're having a discussion on the fate of Horrible Histories TV show at: Horrible Histories (2009 TV series)#Moving on. As a relevant Wikiproject, we would greatly appreciate it if you would voice your opinion on the talk page, or to have a crack at editing and improving it. Thankyou for your time. :)--Coin945 (talk) 13:22, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Leaflet for Wikiproject Timeline Tracer at Wikimania 2014

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

The deadline for submissions is 1st July 2014

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:

Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Chivalric order listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Chivalric order to be moved to Order of chivalry. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 12:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Firing of Shirley Sherrod listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Firing of Shirley Sherrod to be moved to Resignation of Shirley Shirrod. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 02:31, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Charitable organization listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Charitable organization to be moved to Charity (organization). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 09:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)