Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Sudan/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject South Sudan. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Let's light this candle!

I do think updating maps to show the split is going to have to be a priority. One of the other big things is going to be checking up on international recognition and membership in international organizations. The African Union and United Nations are set to admit South Sudan, and it's unclear what the new state's relationship with the Arab League will be, but the offer of membership is known to be on the table. In addition, I think the East African Community, the Community of Sahel-Saharan States, the Economic Community of Central African States, and the Commonwealth of Nations are all probably worth keeping an eye on, to see if there's any serious talk of South Sudan joining them. The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund are probably also likely to admit South Sudan. -Kudzu1 (talk) 05:21, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

New maps around all of Wikipedia is indeed a major necessity. Let's beat Google, who has yet to update their own maps (and I am now in July 9 myself), on this one.

We also have to get every single thing saying "Southern Sudan" over to "South Sudan" - categories, templates (though I created one for this project), and so on. Southern Sudan is now a DAB. South Sudan is what they should all be under. There are also some still under Sudan; again, this needs immediate fixing. CycloneGU (talk) 05:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I just listed a bunch of them on WP:CFD. Also added a template for airports and separated out South Sudanese airports from Sudanese airports. All stuff you don't even think about until you're slogging through it... -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I've recommended on the page and at User talk:Good Olfactory to speedy them. CycloneGU (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

We need to work very closely with WikiProject Maps. Someone has already started a South Sudan topic on their talk page. Roger (talk) 08:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

For maps, there is now a category commons:Category:Maps needing South Sudan political boundaries; feel free to tag any that need updating. If the map shouldn't be overwritten by the new file, just add something like {{warning|Please upload the updated version separately.}} at the top. -MissMJ (talk) 21:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

List of rivers of Sudan

List of rivers of South Sudan needs creation but not all the rivers have articles. A good map of the area may be required. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 19:02, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I concur...and we're also going to have some rivers in both territories, so both categories would be correct in those cases. I'd go to Google but they haven't updated South Sudan into their Maps site yet. CycloneGU (talk) 19:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

It may be optimal to simply wait for that to happen before filling in the article. I'll create it and note that the list is incomplete, and we can revisit it later. -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Knowing that Google didn't update a local road here for a long time after it was changed, I am leery of waiting for Google. They are slow. But then, maybe it's an update for early in the week, or maybe they only put out new builds periodically. I dunno. We could be waiting until October for a country modification, however. CycloneGU (talk) 14:15, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Media server bug

I've found a way around the prolonged server error that is causing some thumbnails to display incorrectly or not update properly. Just adjust the size of the image by a pixel or two (change "250px" or "249px" or "251px", for instance) and the thumbnail should reflect the latest changes. -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:21, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Discussion about the President's name

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#naming custom of Salva Kiir Mayardit? and participate if you have any knowlege of the subject. I have also posted a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy#Question at the Language Refdesk about this topic. Roger (talk) 09:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Article Assessment Table

After trying to figure out what I had overlooked and getting some help, the assessment table is now updating properly. Please continue to move any South Sudan articles into the category, and if you have any skill at assessing articles according to the guidelines, please start going through the rather large "unassessed" category. Right now, including project pages, we have 281 pages in the entire category tree; let's start taking care of those 104 unassessed ones. =) CycloneGU (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

One of the minor issues for assessment (I don't know how to handle it correctly) is that the talk page for southern sudan still exists and ought to be moved/merged to the south sudan talk page. EdwardLane (talk) 12:31, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, someone did a cut-and-paste move of a page and that not only screwed up the contribution history of the article, but also had the problem of leaving the talk page behind. Other than requesting the correct talk page be merged somehow with the new one, there's not much we can do. I'd recommend archiving the old talk page to something like Talk:South Sudan (Archive) with a note on the page, perhaps, and somehow move just the talk page there? That might move the redirect page, however, unless we do a cut and paste and notate it carefully. CycloneGU (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That sounds good but beyond my skills (can you do the archive?)EdwardLane (talk) 09:19, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I would have to do a cut and paste move, I am thinking about it and I think moving the talk page would move the redirect. Not exactly what I want to do. If someone (an admin.) knows how to move just the talk page to an archive, I can set up the archive at the top of this page later. Otherwise, I'll do a cut and paste and carefully note it when I do. CycloneGU (talk) 14:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

How to assess articles for importance

I don't see any listing of criteria for importance - so I'm broadly suggesting this set

Top - South Sudan and what else? the Capital city?
High - National anthem/flag, major wars, major cities and economic things, political parties, things connected to independence, borders, states, head of state, major disasters
Mid - small wars, peoples (groups), religions, major sports, transport (nile & ports, major roads, airports etc) , languages, game reserves, counties, towns, government ministries, highest/deepest mountain/lake etc, major museums.
Low - individual villages, people , smaller events, minor museums.

UN declaration of recognition probably ought to get into 'top' section too. What do you think about that as a broad start ? EdwardLane (talk) 09:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

There are a lot of unassessed articles that need assessment; both for importance and for B, C, Start, Stub...or who knows, even GA if any good ones exist. So this guideline to importance is something we need to figure out. CycloneGU (talk) 14:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Well I've tried adding some more suggestions to the list above - if it seems ok, grab it and stick it on the Project Page itself - if it's no good please feedback/correct it. I know very little about South Sudan, so I'm helping out with this project short term and I'm learning stuff in the process. EdwardLane (talk) 08:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The stub template

Is there a reason why it is limited to geographic articles? What about other South Sudan articles that are also stubs - biographies, history etc? Roger (talk) 07:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

You can propose new stubs at WP:WSS/P. We definitely need more stubs for South Sudan. -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:01, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Actually my thinking is to remove the "geo" component so that it can be a "generic" South Sudan stub template - applicable to any stub article that is relevant to the country. Roger (talk) 10:30, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

That now exists - I don't think it did yesterday but given that it exists I've stuck that on the project page too. EdwardLane (talk) 11:02, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Excellent! Roger (talk) 11:50, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

South Sudan Legislative Assembly (from Talk:South Sudan)

Some one has moved the old Southern Sudan Legislative Assembly article to South Sudan Legislative Assembly. That was wrong. A new article for South Sudan Legislative Assembly should be started; it is not the same body. There is a new Constitution now and it is the assembly of a sovereign state. I am an IP editor so I cant fix it. 84.203.64.52 (talk) 11:37, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I moved it back. I also edited the content to the past tense and added a statement that it has been replaced by a new assembly. So now all that remains is to create the new article. What is the correct official name of the current assembly? (BTW I think this discussion should be moved to the project as it is not about this article.) Roger (talk) 13:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

End copy from Talk:South Sudan, continue discussion below.

Thanks. I preferred editing as an IP editor but, given the limitations, I've signed up. I've started the necessary articles - National Legislature of South Sudan. I may terminate my account and go back to being an IP editor at some point but for now there is too much work to do on the South Sudan articles. NelsonSudan (talk) 15:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

As you've signed up, welcome to the community!

Now that you have an account, though, please don't feel you have to later abandon the account and return to your IP. Some IPs rotate - or if you move elsewhere, change entirely in some cases - and it would be difficult to attribute you with your contributions as a result. Having an account lets you do some things that IPs really can't do. First, you can now have your own user page. Second, you have your own personal talk page, which people can leave messages for you on and you are guaranteed to get them; not the case with a rotating IP. These benefits alone make it worthwhile to keep an account, and I personally signed up after a couple of anon. edits a long time ago (occasionally the 30 day stay logged in timer expires and I submit another IP edit, but that's rare). I'll post more on your new talk page. =) CycloneGU (talk) 15:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Great work NelsonSudan! I've tagged National Legislature of South Sudan, National Legislative Assembly of South Sudan and Council of States with the project template and provisionally rated them as High importance and Start class. Roger (talk) 16:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

City Articles and Stubs

I saw, for instance, Sopo, South Sudan in both the South Sudan and Sudan categories per the talk page. This puzzles me; are we leaving the Sudan category on cities that were part of Sudan previously and have moved to the new country? Or, since they are no longer part of Sudan, should we remove the Sudan category from them? CycloneGU (talk) 22:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd say let's remove the Sudan category from anything no longer part of Sudan. -Kudzu1 (talk) 01:20, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with that. Any other feelings on the matter? If there's no objection, I might start looking through some 2morrow. CycloneGU (talk) 05:32, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd suggest remove them, but leave a note on the Sudan wiki project page once it's done, so they can add back any that are still relevant to Sudan for reasons other than their location.

Maybe it's best I do that first. That way, I can alert them to it before I make changes, and they can fix any that still belong in their project as well. The main thing is that they should have South Sudan at a bare minimum. CycloneGU (talk) 18:30, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Undue emphasis on ethnicity, tribe or clan.

In the biographies of various people such as Salva Kiir Mayardit and Riek Machar the first thing that is mentioned after their names is their ethnicity and/or tribal and clan affiliations. To my mind it smacks of tribalism to give such prominence to these attributes. Roger (talk) 17:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I removed the italicized header from Salva Kiir Mayardit but do not know what exactly you are referring to in either article. Can you clarify the exact bit? CycloneGU (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I dealt with it (I agree it was blatant tribalism) - it's still there but less prominent.EdwardLane (talk) 18:42, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Arabic forms of names

I notice that some place names, e.g. Eastern Equatoria, are followed by the Arabic form of their name in parentheses. Is this relevant any longer? I am inclined to remove the Arabic form, but is there a reason to keep it? Aymatth2 (talk) 14:51, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Support removal. Arabic is no longer an official language. -Kudzu1 (talk) 17:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Support per Kudzu. If Arabic is later adopted as an official language, we can restore this information. CycloneGU (talk) 01:36, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no urgency for this decision. We are not trying to prove any point. Removing any sort of information should not be done lightly. I am against any program to immediately expunge the Arabic forms. On the other hand, I am against titles like "New York (Chinese: 新紐約, Russian: Нью-Йорк)" But I notice that Arabic sometimes is used as a sort of lingua franca. Let's give it until 15 August, then if there are no objections implement as a project policy. Who should we ask for an opinion on the subject? Aymatth2 (talk)

Arabic isn't an official language of South Sudan, and it's Wikipedia policy that alternative names should only be given if it's the official local form. The language of South Sudan is also the language of this Wikipedia. There's no need to wait and see; the constitution isn't going to be amended to remarry South Sudan to the Arabs they struggled for decades to break away from. And if it is, those Arabic names can be readded. I doubt that will happen. -Kudzu1 (talk) 01:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. I can't see any reason to keep the Arabic forms, just thought someone might come up with one. But it seems very unlikely, and they can always be restored if need be. The decision is to drop them. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:32, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Kajo Keji

I think this two articles might be about the same town: Kajo Keji and Kago Kaju. Can anyone confirm that?--Cattus ^talk 15:49, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

New airline

I have created a stub for Southern Star Airlines, please help expand it. Roger (talk) 08:33, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I've added an infobox and logo, but I have no idea where to get IATA codes and the callsign. Any help would be appreciated. Ignorant Armies^?! 09:03, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll take up the question of the codes and callsign with the Airlines Wikiproject. Are there any other templates, categories, etc. that the article still needs? Roger (talk) 09:56, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Airlines and airports articles

Articles about some airports are in a bit of a mess. Many airport articles contain a statement about being served by "Southern Sudan Airlines", but upon doing some digging I have discovered that this company currently consists of just one office in Juba. It has not yet undertaken a single flight. In fact it is not known to have ever owned or even hired any aircraft. It has also not (yet) been allocated codes by either IATA or ICAO. It's website adds to the confusion by seeming to advertise actual scheduled flights. Meanwhile other airlines that do actually have flights to the airports concerned (e.g. Southern Star Airlines) are not mentioned at all in the articles. There is some minor "edit warring" going on about the inclusion/exclusion of this material from the affected articles. Roger (talk) 13:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

returning south sudan numbers

Map for south sudan Number of Returnees by County, 30 Oct. 2010 - 20 Sept. 2011: 342,200 total returnees Hope that's a useful resource for someone involved in this project.

And while I think about it - I noticed a report on flash flooding in september 2011 in south sudan, on the site linked below, and keeping track of that (and any other disaster type things that affect south sudan - hopefully there are none) can be followed here.

EdwardLane (talk) 09:02, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Alphonse Kenyi

A 14-year-old is condemned to death in South Sudan. It has been reported in a number of Spanish-language newspapers. Here is one (translated): "Alphonse Kenyi, de 14 años es condenado a morir en la horca". I can't tell what the issue is, but it may be worth an article based on the several news articles on the topic. Will Beback talk 05:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

News article on oil indusrty troubles

This article has some useful information on the disputes about oil between South Sudan and Sudan. I hope someone finds it useful. Roger (talk) 14:09, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Serious central bank article problem

The two articles, Bank of South Sudan and Central Bank of South Sudan, appear to be about the same subject. This needs to be resolved asap. Roger (talk) 07:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

New WikiProject

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Portal:South Sudan

Could you create Portal:South Sudan please. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 15:02, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Agricultural page

Per Talk:Economy of South Sudan, theres a big scope for this article and the current subsection on the economy page is poor. Any volunteers to coordinate and organize a new page for this?(Lihaas (talk) 07:07, 10 January 2014 (UTC)).

List of mammals of Sudan and List of birds of Sudan seem to cover both Sudans, not just the north, but I'm not certain. There is no List of mammals of South Sudan or List of birds of South Sudan. More impotently these difs (mammals birds) show that not many species (if any for the birds list) have been removed sense the South became independent in July 2011. It is possible, tough I would think unlikely, that the lists only cover the North, and that there were simply very few species unique to the south.

Could somebody look in to this, and see if these list cover both Sudans, or just the North.

If these lists really do cover both Sudans, then a quick fix would be to rename them "List of X of Sudan and South Sudan". Of course what we would really want to do is split each list in two, one for the North and one for the South, once we figure out which species are northern, which are southern, and which are both.

Please respond at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sudan#List of mammals of Sudan and List of birds of Sudan. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Languages in censuses and Race and ethnicity in censuses

Pleas add information about this country to this articles--Kaiyr (talk) 13:04, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

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WikiProject X is live!

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