Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker/Archives/2019/May

Adding century breaks during matches

Hello people are adding century breaks during matches without adding any info regarding what frame the century was made in. ie this morning Hawkins made 4 centuries and Piotras18 is the editor doing this all the time without adding info, this is going to lead to another editor doubling up and adding a century break twice. what can be done about this please ?. regards 80.233.80.124 (talk) 11:45, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, we shouldn't be updating information from the broadcast in the first place, as this contravenes wikipedia's policy on original research. The centuries should come instead from a reliable source. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:48, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

it is no harm to add when they are done properly with information added. I tried to contact the offender about this. can someone have a word please ?. 80.233.80.124 (talk) 20:43, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, actually there is issues, the ones stated above. These sorts of updates are the same as the ones for WP:LIVESCORES, that just seem to be ignored. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:30, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski is correct. All sorts of mistakes can creep in when editors take it upon themselves to do the century tracking. Even the fansites out there that do it are inconsistent. Wikipedia is supposed to be an online encyclopedia i.e. we document what is provably true, not necessarily what is true. If we can't source something we shouldn't be recording it. World Snooker provides its own live scoring service at http://livescores.worldsnookerdata.com/. Good practice is to source the centuries and please make sure you archive the link at https://archive.org/web/ to ensure the source does not die. Betty Logan (talk) 16:46, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

look betty you are wrong. fansites as you call them like Snookerinfo.webs are correct and are used by the bbc ok. you guys talk a lot of nonsense on here imo. 92.251.161.184 (talk) 17:10, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia's rules are very clear on using reliable sources, and not original research. Please read Wikipedia's rules as linked. Yes, sometimes reliable sources do use things such as cuetracker, but that has a site wide ban for being unreliable. You can make a point of a site being reliable or not, but you'd still need to get the information from the website, and it couldn't be user generated. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:58, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

If you compare CueTracker and Snookerinfo you can verify for yourself that some of the entries are inconsistent: Talk:Century_break#Fansites_being_used_as_sources. When they are consistent I agree they are probably correct but that is not always the case. But this is why we have a policy against using user-generated info, which incidentally is what we are using when we count the centuries ourselves and create our own totals. Betty Logan (talk) 18:14, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

World Number Ones page

I want to add to the page the total amount of time in weeks that each player has spent at world number one. ie like in the Golf and Tennis pages. ProSnookerBlog has the total amount of weeks each player has spent at number one. I think it would be an interesting addition to the page. 178.167.190.99 (talk) 19:55, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

We're talking about List of world number one snooker players. My own view is that its like comparing chalk and cheese. We went from an annual system to a system where the rankings are changed frequently. Personally I see no point in turning the annual rankings into 52/53 weeks and then comparing these with the modern system. We have 2 different systems. In e.g. golf there was an annual system (Mark McCormack's world golf rankings) which turned into a weekly system (List of World Number One male golfers) but no-one thinks it sensible to compare the two. Lets have two different tables. Nigej (talk) 20:10, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I 100% agree with Nigej. Hendry spending 52 weeks at #1 is categorically not the same as Selby spending 52 weeks at #1, because Hendry literally only had to defend his rank once a year whereas Selby had to defend his rank every week of the season. For example, Selby started the 2018/19 season as #1 just as Hendry started the 1997/98 season so they are equivalent on those terms, but Selby lost the #1 rank mid-season whereas Hendry didn't lose it until the seasonal update. We do actually have a table spanning the two systems which compares the rankings after the world championship, and that is the only fair way to compare them. Betty Logan (talk) 20:30, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, completely agree with Betty. Seems pointless, and the source you are considering isn't reliable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:31, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

To-do list

Hi all,

Now that the world championships are over, there's a couple things that have been brought up recently that need addressing. I'll list what I can think of here, feel free to add in your own points.

1 - {{flag}}/{{flagicon}}/{{flagathlete}} - I think we all need to investigate fully what needs to be used in these articles. I realise I'm mostly the stimulus for this, which I apologise for. I am likely to be pushing for some articles to be FA, so it does need to be addressed whenever we can. Does anyone have any input on how this should be sorted? I kind of think anything less than a formal WP:RfC to find out might not lead to any actual finish.

2 - Finals tables - We really do just need one table that can be used to fit WP:ACCESS, but also for any event. I think the one we used for the world championship fits the bill ok for the world championships, but it is bespoke for that tournament. When I have time I might try and make a universal one and see what you all think. I do think it needs to be a template, however.

3 - WP:NATHLETE. Recently, an AfD for Tian Pengfei was brought up. Clearly he is notable, but I was under the impression that we have always considered articles on players that had been professional to be inheritly notable. However, on WP:NATHLETE, there's nothing about cue sport players. I suggest we write a simple one, and try and get it added. Something like WP:NSNOOKER would be a good redirect.

4 - WP:LIVEUPDATES - Probably the biggest one that we've seen. I think it's time we had a new consensus regarding Live updates during matches. The current consensus found here is from 9 years ago, after the 2010 world championship. I'll leave my comments out of this post, however.

5 - Good article/featured articles. There's quite a few that need a review. I'd suggest at least commenting on any FAs (it doesn't have to be particularly in depth), to show what you think the article needs or if you support it being promoted. These types of articles really do help the project.

6 - Updating bios. Looking around, it seems that even the top player's bios all need an update. Judd Trump for example is currently two seasons out of date, and is linked on the main page. These types of articles (WP:BLP) aren't really my forte, and the only one I've really tried to update was Alan McManus. However, Shaun Murphy, Neil Robertson and John Higgins are definately in need of an update.

If you can think of anything else, let me know below, and how these are best addressed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

The nationalities of players should follow worldsnookerdata.com instead of snooker.org/cuetracker or other non-official sites

Just like in Draft:Q School 2019 – Event 1, Luis Vetter should be German[1] instead of Swiss[2], Qingtian Yang should be English[3] instead of Chinese[4] etc.--1.64.91.128 (talk) 12:22, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

This is a draft article, and not an article on Wikipedia.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:45, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

That is just an example. I mean all other articles should also follow worldsnookerdata.com.--1.64.91.128 (talk) 11:19, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Which articles would these be? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:04, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Rivalries

I recently found List of sports rivalries and was really surprised that there was a lot of snooker rivalries listed. I'm not sure I agree with many of them, outside of perhaps White/Hendry and O'Sullivan/Hendry.

Davis had a pool rivalry with Earl Strickland that was highly publicised, which I'll probably add, but does anyone have any thoughts on the rest or more to look into? Murphy and Stephen Maguire never liked each other, for instance. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:36, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Personally I'm very doubtful about the list. Seems to be little more than a list of the top 2 players in the world at various times. Surely a "rivalry" has to be more than that. As you imply, a certain animosity between the two is a common feature. There's no such thing between John Higgins and Ronnie; they've simply played a lot of times and Higgins has had great success in these matches. Nigej (talk) 07:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, this is clearly just a list of who faced off in a lot of finals at the time. Realistically, none of these could ever have a standalone article, as snooker players are generally quite respectful. I'll try and wede my way through. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:35, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

You could have Alex Higgins and pretty much anyone who picked up a cue in the 70s and 80s, but I am surprised the Higgins-Dennis Taylor rivalry is not on there, considering Higgins threatened to have him shot by the IRA. Betty Logan (talk) 09:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)